Sub 10:00...

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  • Foggy - exactly.

    I commute to work a lot - but every commute is a planned session, even if that is ride for recovery.

  • Ava - not recevied yet but fullname @ gmail for email

  • I'm only commenting to show interest..

     

    but Kona 2015 for me. There, I said it.

  • AvalafAvalaf ✭✭✭

    it'll be in your "other" mail box on facebook

     

  • One thing I'm relying on in winter is commuting (25km/day) for aerobic base. Supplementing this with time on the rollers and a Sunday ride, the intent is to build a decent base. Should be around 200km to 250km a week plus what time I spend on the rollers.

    I may be able to swap in a run to work, which would be c. 10 miles. I'm going to build run volume very tentatively however, as this has been the area where I've found injury in the past.

  • Base on 8 miles each way, that's just wasted time?

    How about turning it into a session - so biggest gear all the way or 5 x 5min hard 5 min easy. Then you don't need the rollers and you can swim or run.

  • FeganTC wrote (see)

    Base on 8 miles each way, that's just wasted time?

    How about turning it into a session - so biggest gear all the way or 5 x 5min hard 5 min easy. Then you don't need the rollers and you can swim or run.

    Sorry, it's for cycling aerobic base. I still plan on swimming and running! Running will be 2/3 nights in the week and a run at the weekend. My concern is hitting the bike too hard too early and the resultant opportunity cost arising from missed sessions through fatigue. 

    I am aware that I don't have the depth of endurance training of many people with these goals (my first was 2 years ago) - so the more long and slow I can do over the winter, the more comfortable I think I will feel. I did NOTHING over the 2011/12 winter, my first ride was 24th Feb 2012, and a total of 30km. Last year I started in mid-Jan and rode 180km on 24th Feb. This year if I can keep going through winter without the gap in the middle (I've already had a month off after Lanza 70.3) then I'm hoping I yield even better fitness.

  • This is the sub 10 thread and you're talking about long and slow bike WTF?

    So please re-read my last post - and when did 8 miles on the bike become long?

    Fatigue - that's the whole point, if you can't do the next session then you're plan is wrong. If Crab is lurking he'll jump in and give me shit for sutto-worshiping but periodisation works over 3 days...

     

    What you did yesterday determines what you can do today, which in turn determines tomorrow. 

    Get that right and you nail point 6

  • Any truth in the rumour you're so far up his @rse you can just about see Nicola Spirig's feet?

    As you were.

  • She's wearing On Cloud Racers (orange)

  • I thought Newton's ruled the world?  FFS I can't keep up with the Church of Sutto...must be my brand of trainers.

    At the fear of coming across as adding very little other than the derailment that generally happens here's my tuppence worth.

    Hard work is the key and over time (from novice to expeirienced campaigner)  that transitions from volume based to intensity based for getting the best ROI but it needs to be consistent and over an extended period of time.  Volume will only take you so far.

    There are no magic sessions.  
    There's sessions that work you hard and ones that don't.  
    The ones that work you hard are hard work and they work.  
    Hard work isn't necessarily vomit inducing but it is uncomfortable.  
    FeganTC (or whatever he's calling himself this week) is a good example.  
    When he works hard he's fast when he didn't he wasn't (relatively).

    Funnily enough when I've worked hardest I've been my fastest.

    Working hard in the pool isn't 10x100 balls out where you're desperate to get to the end.  It's more 20x200 at a reasonable, sustainable pace that's increasingly, annoying to maintain.

    Working hard on the run isn't 10x400 balls out at a running club.  It's more 10-20 longer 3+min intervals again at a pace that's just about sustainable...for EVERY rep.

    Working hard on the bike isn't sitting in the saddle for 4+hours freezing your NADS off.  I haven't yet seen a study showing a link between being uncomfortably cold and fitness gains. Have a purpose and add some hard work in there whether it's cold or not it'll do you more good.  Or do a session that will address your probable limiter that is leg strength.  Hill repeats, over gearing etc.  Nothing that hasn't been mentioned many times before here - it's just being @rsed to actually do it that will make the difference.  That's been one of my biggest issues.  Not doing enough of what I know works.

    Hurry slowly eh Gary?

    As you were.

  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭
    Scuba Trooper wrote (see)

    I hope this thread gains enough support to stay at the top of the page. I will lurk and ask questions but not sure I'll have much to offer those already experienced and going sub 10:00.

    I'm not ready to go sub 10 yet. My first session was geared towards Challenge Henley this year and I finished in 11:56 with only 9 moths swimming and biking behind me. I hope to be able to make significant improvements over the next few years.

    If the only things behind you were nine moths, you ARE going to have to make some improvements!

  • Why do you only have a silhouette as your picture Fegan, looks like you're on witness protection due to all the shit your taking on your latest money making scheme?!?!?!?!?!

  • When I said long and slow over winter, I wasn't thinking that 8 miles was long (though it probably will be slow). My view is as CRAB says - a progression from volume based to intensity based. Or periodisation with increasing specificity if you're Joe Friel. 

    Is it wrong to assume that an increase in intensity in winter will lead me to burn out sooner rather than later? Bearing in mind I've not done a full winter of training before. 

    Not trying to disagree here, happy to take advice - just aware that what I have planned already is significantly more training than I have done before. Structured intensity seems to me to more consistent with a "build" phase than "base".

  • Dan I'm getting my bike down in 2 weeks, definitely up for some longer winter all-weather rides with you throughout the winter.

    3rd day riding single speed to work today (only 9 miles each way) through central London... and after a 10 mile run this morning as well... my legs are shouting for muscles I don't think I own!! Hasn't helped doing nothing in terms of training for 16 months though I suppose

  • Couldn't Run A Bath wrote (see)

    That's been one of my biggest issues.  Not doing enough of what I know works.

    .

    Probably mine too, at least as far as the bike goes.  Running has always been a NFRS approach which has worked for me, but I need to think a bit more about what bike sessions I need to do.  Too often I just go out and ride hard, which only goes so far and probably doesn't (as you put it) address my probable limitations.

    Dan, if you're training to go as fast as you can then you're going to have to watch for burn out at some point anyway.  You're allowed periods of recovery, you know.

  • OK - this is more sutto-based thinking and we all know that doesn't work because there's no book to go with it.

    Build your hours until you can maintain that level ever week - then add the harder stuff. None of this build for 3 back for 1 crap..just the same old shit week in week out will do it.

    Read Adam's post above and read my 1 to 8...eeerm enough said. Thread closed.

  • My view is as CRAB says

    No it's not.  I was talking about the law of diminishing returns from volume as you go through years of training not months within a year.  Once endurance isn't (much of) a limiter anymore then doing stuff to address it isn't going to help as much as doing stuff to make you faster (see above) regardless of the time of year - especially if the goal is to go 'fast' (it is the sub10 thread after all).

    As you were.

  • Here's how I understood it (stop me where you think I'm in need of correction)

    1) Improving performance at endurance events depends on threshold pace and endurance base. The bigger the endurance base, the longer you can hold a given pace, the higher your threshold, the higher that pace is.

    2) Improving endurance is easy - do a lot of it, just add patience.

    3) Improving threshold is simple - intervals above threshold, the workouts you're describing as "the hard work".

    4) To handle that training whilst minimising injury risk you need to start from a big base already.

    Now I'm not suggesting that winter is all easy work pootling around when you feel like it - getting fast takes hard work, but to my mind the hard work from now through to early spring is about getting as many hours in as possible, so that you have as much of a base as possible on which to put that speed work come spring. SSS is one thing, but he's (or was) focussed on athletes who have both years of hardcore training in the bank already (I don't) and who have to perform year round to earn their meal ticket (I don't).

  • Nope!

    Base is not built in a winter, nor do you periodise throughout the year unless you're talking about what is called reverse periodisation - which is work hard during the winter and then as the weather permits and you can do more vloume / hours you supplement with easier workouts.

    So you build until you're fit and strong enough to do the real work, if that's starts in July or October so be it, 

    To quote sutto "Bompa is bullshit"

  • I had to google that. I like that his wife is Tamara Bompa.
  • I had been planning to go 10:30 come IM Copenhagen in August '14 although I'll be sure to keep checking here to see what's what so to speak.

  • 1st up......periodisation can be all year round and most of us do it, our off season is spent on improving and tweaking our weaknesses, I.e core or swim technique and this is still structured!  

    I am never going to go sub 10 but like to be competitive. I'm not focused on ironman but AG middle/long course GB instead, as this is a more achievable target for me. ( I have a qualifying time for next year already)

    Although I am a Postie I am also a qualified level 3 personal trainer, I am more than happy to try an answer questions or give some ideas...if I can! image

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    well done TheEngineer for getting the party started.

    I have a self imposed ~3hr limit on long runs and rides so stick to 1/2IM and marathons as max distance races, but I lke to see what the fastish folks are doing. I agree with Popsider that it should be more of a home for like minded folks than anything else, the sub3 thread has sub 3 aspirants as well as sub 2:20 folks, its just a meeting place for like minded folks that are all trying to build their aerobics around work/life/family.

  • Mr engineer

    I have been enjoying the endurance corner stuff on how to qualify for kona.  You should be building in a similar way

    Get a repeatable week now and repeat for 4 months. I started with 30 min runs and a long run of 40.   Built by the end of 4 months to 60 min runs and 90 min long runs.  

    I biked in to work, ran part the way home.  Then run in the next day and bike home.  If ypu can park ypur bike somewhere safe that is...   I ran at MAF pace (phil meffetone stuff).  Ie steady with no intervals /speed until later.  Should help prevent injury.

    Add bikeing and swim

    4 months of that and you will be in solid shape (feb/march) and ready for training to start image

    I'm aiming for sub 10 this year.... till the run starts and then its now purely survival now and doing enough to enjoy tje run and not break myself longterm.... 90 min easy run planned tonight to see if it flares the dodgy knee up or not.  If i can do enough run training to knock off a 4:00 IM run Ill be very happy.

  • Great thread i have a best of 11:12 am getting long in the tooth but still resckon theres a sub 11 in me so will be using the tips in here to try and get there

    Kona i reackon you gave deffo got a sub 10 in you mate image

  • FeganTC wrote (see)

    This is the sub 10 thread and you're talking about long and slow bike WTF?

    I know plenty of people who are very good on the bike who do lots of long slow miles over winter.   I just think there are too many ways to reach the same goal to say something like WTF.    Depends where you are coming from - if you'd spent 10 years riding 600k audaxes then it's probably not what you need, if you've come off a season of short distance racing it might be what's needed.   

  • How long is long and how slow is slow ?



    OC - have you a link to that repeatable week you mention on EC ? Ta.
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