Building up my Aerobic base.

I know I need to build up my aerobic base as I've struggled to hold a decent pace in half marathons.  I've run a 19.30 5k in the last year but can't get any faster than a 1.36 half marathon.

 I've got a half in March and then a 10k in May so bit late to do anything for them but I plan to run my local 10k in October after that. Should I wait until after the October 10k and then change the way I train or can I make a difference to my  aerobic base between the two 10k's?. I don't tend to race between October and February except the odd cross country race. 
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Comments

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    Depends on what your training is like at the moment.  If it's inefficient then no point continuing down that path and might as well make changes now. I'm guessing you don't do enough long slow runs to build endurance.  To help better would need to know your goal race is it 10k or a half mara and what your Ave week training looks like
  • Obvious comment - but do you often run 13 miles ? If you don't then you will struggle in a race.
    Lots of steady miles should help you. 
  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    I do regularly run between 12-15 on a long run each Sunday, but not sure if I run it too fast to have a big effect(2-2.5 minutes slower than 5k pace at the moment).  I have tried to move towards running these under 140 heart rate on these long runs in the last month but can run as slow as 10 min miles in places to achieve this.  

    I also have started doing a 4.5 mile recovery run @ under 135 heart rate the day after a hard interval session.  I've got no problem with running slower if it will help me maintain a faster pace in races, I'm just a bit sure what the best approach is. 
  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    Typical week will be Monday rest day, Tuesday interval training, Wednesday slow recovery run of about 4.5 miles, Thursday about 4-5 tempo after slow warm up and warm down.  Friday rest. Saturday hill training or parkrun.  Sunday long run of between 12-15 miles run @ around 9 min miles.   My 10k pb was 40.14 last October and looking to break this in either May or Oct.  Although I'd like to break my pb in the half, it's my weakest distance so I'm not expecting massive improvements in that. 
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    of your 5 days of training 3 are based on quality (tempo, parkrun/hills, intervals) and 2 are based on"miles"  probably explains why you are better over shorter distances.  maybe alternate weeks with taking the tempo out and doing an 8m at easy pace to build miles up.  id say to do better over half marathon you would need to get more miles in.    once you are at mile 8 in a half marathon you are going to wish you had done more miles in training.
  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    My main problem is knowing how slow to run the easy miles to gain the training gains I'm looking for.  I've started to use running under 140 heart rate as a guide to how to run the easy miles but not sure if this is right as I can go as slow as 10 min miles to achieve this.  I'm happy to run this slow if it means I can improve my times, i just lack the knowledge to know if this is the right way. 

    The main races I like to do are 10k, 10 miles and half marathons but I've reached a point where Ive not improved much over the last 18 months but I've been regularly running 40-45 miles a week. 
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    i dont run to HR but the idea of the long slow run is to build endurance but not be too tired to do your fast stuff.  For an example my 10k pace is approx 5.10min miles and my slow runs are about 6.45mm.  But some days if im leggy they will by 7mm or slower.  So if you are a 40min 10k runner & your slow runs are 9mm they sound about right.  google mcmillan running paces and enter your 10k pb it can give a guide for training paces
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Maybe it's your LT ability that's the problem. For me, the main thing about running a good half is being able to sit on that pace just below LT. What pace is your tempo run? I think more miles would definitely help, but I find I can run a pretty good half with lots of longish tempo/fartlek running and not much overall distance. I think 2-2.5min slower than 5k pace is fine for your long runs. I'd be dropping either the track session or hill session each week (could do alternate weeks) and substituting an easy 8-10ish miles.
  • worth remembering that it is hard to run your LSR too slowly, but very easy to run them too fast!

    I run mine about 3 mins/mile slower than my 5k pace, but have on occasions gone slower than that when tired.... I also run a couple of times a week with my better half, who is (by her own admission) a plodder, and those are 4 or 5 miles at 6 mins/mile slower than my 5k pace... and my legs always feel great afterwards, like they've had a really good massage or foam roll!
    lets be honest.... its all prep for an Ironman on my 100th birthday
  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the all the advice.  I've input my race time in a training calculator in the past  and the easy runs came out at 8.05 - 8.30 min miles which I thought was a bit quick for me to be called easy.  I try to do my threshold runs at about 10k pace +20 seconds which for me is around 6.45 - 6.50 min mile.  

    Is it a case for someone like me that the worse thing I could do is do a run at say 7.30 - 8.30 minute pace because it's too fast for an easy run and too slow for a threshold run?.  When I'm feeling tired even this sort of run can be a struggle so I'd be happy to ditch this and run slower if it will mean I gain more out of running slower.  
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    I don't think there's anything wrong with doing your long runs a bit faster, even finishing with a few miles at goal hm pace. It has it fit in however with your overall program. There's no point trying to do it and feeling rubbish because you're too fatigued. And you need to make sure you've recovered before you try another hard session. 

    I would be droppping one of your hard sessions each week for another easy run, extending the length of your tempo runs, even if you need to drop the pace a bit and doing the occasional progressional long run, finishing at goal pace.

    But that's just me. I'm sure lots will have other opinions.
  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    I've used the fast finish long runs for my marathon training and it definitely helped me, so probably something I should do more of.  Do you think I should do the majority of the run very easy and then say 3-4 miles quick?.   

    Its good to get a perspective from other runners who have more experience of trying these easy runs than me. My problem I think has been I've been trying to copy the training of guys I know who have always been fast compared to me but can do it on half the miles I run at the moment.  Im also now a Vet 40 so I think I need to train smarter now so very open to trying new ways of doing this. 

    Thanks for the continued advice it has been very helpful. 
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    I followed the P&D plan for the Manchester marathon last year and when I did the long runs with marathon pace sections I started out at faster than my easy pace, what I call a steady pace, then gradually increase the pace over a mile or so up to goal pace. For marathon training the race pace sections were 10-14 miles. I'm not sure how far you should consider for a half marathon. Alternatively I also like to do long progression runs so starting slow and gradually increasing the pace all the way around until I hit the goal pace with a couple of miles to go.

    Both these types of runs can be pretty tough though and you need to make sure you plan your recovery around them and don't do them every week.

    Just looking at the numbers I don't think there is anything wrong with your easy pace but if it doesn't feel easy, it's too fast. Slow down until it really is easy, whatever that pace may be. That way you will be fresher to really target your important sessions.

    Have you thought about getting a specific half marathon plan such as the P&L Faster Road Racing or Hal Higdon plans?
  • I found that one of the biggest helps for me was the inclusion of a medium-long run during the week - about 11mi at an easy pace (a bit faster than long run pace would work out to be).
    Although unlikely to be the only factor, as I was also following comprehensive period of training sessions (~12 weeks) from a group that are coached. I went from 1:28 to 1:23 with the quality training over ~6 months.
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