Sub 3:00 FLM 2006

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Comments

  • ChaosChaos ✭✭✭
    There's time for two complete cycles as I see it between now and next FLM.

    Now to mid-May light recovery runs with perhaps some light weight training to stimulate appropriate muscle rebuilding.

    mid-May - end June - plyometrics, short hills + <90 min sub-LT runs - build on speed, muscle elasticity and technique

    July - end Aug - Base Distance (all sub-lactate threshold still), plenty of 120+ min runs

    September - October - peaking work on the track + MP work (go long if Oct Marathoning) for end October/November races

    Second cycle

    Nov recovery. light weights + recovery runs

    Dec - Jan, mileage building + hills
    Feb-mid-Mar, big mileage, some MP work
    Mar-Apr, speed, >LT work, last long runs, race...
  • nichs2nichs2 ✭✭✭
    chaos,

    very interesting...i am very clear with the second cycle...it's the first cycle i need to get right in order to improve significantly...you start with a very long recovery
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    JEJ.. the Pfitzinger/Douglas book 'Advanced Marathoning' is well worth the investment. Amazon currently sell it for £9.06.

    The schedules are just the tip of the iceberg. There are sections on nutrition & hydration, physiology, recovery, tapering, supplemental training, importance of flexibility and more. The book explains why you are doing certain workouts, not just 'run 15 miles on Wednesday'.

    It offers schedules of 55mpw max, up to 70mpw and 70-100mpw which you can choose from depending on what you feel your body can handle. I have read a number of marathon training guides and I rate this as the best of the lot.

    Batfink.. that is one hell of a good effort, bad luck. With only 43 secs deficit I would certainly ask the GFA question.
  • Well hello, you many and familiar names, esp Hilly, Wardi, Monique. I feel that I have now got the entry level qualifications to join in this thread. (2004 3:14 cardiff GFA, 2005 FLM 3:06) Unlike last years thread it somehow seems less daunting now. I reckon that my biggest factors in the improvements were: joining club for competitive speedwork, many long runs, and being prompted by MikeG2 to do the later long runs at a decent pace. Of course there is also the challenge provided by forum rivals.
  • Count me in.

    As long as FLM don't change the GFA times I should qualify for under 40 yrs on my FLM 2004 time of 2.57.35.

    Batfink , I got a GFA in 2004 on my 3.00.42 time from FLM 2003 so you may be lucky.
  • ChaosChaos ✭✭✭
    it was a bit of a first stab at it nichs2, i've not really sat down with a calendar and worked things out on a more precise timescale - perhaps working back from particular Autumn target races.

    Basically though we may need a mental break from things as well as physically so the concept of a very light month sounded nice as long as there's not a detraining effect.

    I'd like to see other people approaches to periodisation/cycles/etc along with their reasons for doing so. To some extent I think I'm lacking basic leg speed so would like to improve that before upping the mileage/base training to be able to convert it into marathon pace speed.
  • Hello,
    Hopefully trying for sub3 FLM O6( 3.03.O7 05)But will target an Autumn marathon first.
    Well done on your run at London Hilly btw.
    It seems like years ago already,particularly with the change of weather we have had since.
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    I like to race in the Summer as I don't get chance to race much in the Winter
    with helping to run my sons footie team. I like to do some gym work, keep a
    longish run of about 11/12 miles, and a bit of fartlekkin when not racing.
    Don't realy think about training hard until about October when I will build
    a base of about 40 miles per week on which to start my pfitzinger 18 weeker.
    Not tackled this one before, and so hoping to turn my LM 2005 3:07:55 this
    year into 2:59 next year.
    I'd love to think I could get away with an Autumn marathon, but the wife and
    family are not too happy with my commitment to a Spring Marathon!
    Next bullet points for me are 3 fast 5ks in May, hoping to better my PB of
    17:44.
  • CurtainsCurtains ✭✭✭
    hi all

    I'd love to get a sub 3 marathon, having only done FLM 2004 in 3:44 I don't know if this will be possible. The mistake I made that year was attempting it off 25mpw and only doing one 18 mile LSD.

    My main aims for the summer are to get back up to 15 mile sunday runs and get a sub 1:30 great north run ( cuurently 1:37 PB )

    I'm trying Parkers heart rate training at the moment. If I go sub 1:30 for the GNR i'll try a autumn marathon ( cardiff or abington ) .

    I may then be worthy of joing the thread, good luck :)
  • hhhmmmmm put me down as a tentative....might do Lochaber again instead....Can't let Cartman get sub-3 and not go for it as well ;~)
  • After two days off, I bounced back from FLM and am presently running a maintenance cycle of around 50mpw with a long run of around 12 miles. I plan to keep this up through May before starting the 18 week Pfitzinger schedule for Cardiff in June.

    I will run the East Midlands Grand Prix series (at least between 2 and 5 of the 8 races) in May for a), legspeed (they're all 5 mile to 10K races) and b) because as evening races, they fit conveniently into family life compared to weekend events. I reckon they, combined with my maintenance mileage, will put me in good shape to kick of Pfitzinger for Cardiff.

    As regards "psychological" recovery from FLM, I really don't feel like I am struggling. If I needed a break I would take one, but frankly I feel physically and mentally fine. I run at 5.15am 6/7 days a week because that's "my" time (I have three young kids, all under five, and leaving my wife to deal with them alone while I run is not a long-term option during normal waking hours.) But I am totally adjusted to my schedule and to be honest, I feel more out of sorts if I don't run than if I do.

    I think my major issues in reaching 2.59.59 (after 3:05:01 at London) will be:

    1. I need to run more quality miles and less "plodding" miles. Too much of my training has been non-specific or one paced.

    2. Possibly, the increased number of longer runs will help me. I note Pfitzinger tends to go for more medium and longer runs broken up by genuinely shorter ones (of 5 miles) where I have tended to bang out the 8 milers with one longer run a week. Also, I ran FLM with two long runs (over 18 miles) behind me where it appears I will run Cardiff with many more than that.

    3. More miles overall. I ran FLM on one 60 mile week and five 50s (plus build-up to that. Really a 40-55 mile programme. Pfitzinger will take me up a level.

    I have one question: Has anyone worked directly with Pfitzinger? I note from his website that you can hire him for a one hour personal phone consultation during which he will fine-tune your programme (or his own if that's what your'e using) so it's specific to your individual needs as well as talk through it and address any particular issues you have. At a cost of $80 which, given today's exchange rates is only around £40 this doesn't sound like a bad investment. I reckon I might be more likely to break 3 hours with an hour of one-to-one advice from Pfitzinger than the money spent on a new top!
  • nichs2nichs2 ✭✭✭
    first 17 miler since london...body is aching all over as if i've never run before...i need to maintain consistency

  • Nice one N2. My mates gave me a 9 mile pre-breakfast route which turned out to be 13.5, the first 10 being uphill! I've yet to get 18, but that's the plan for alternate (3 weekly?) outings.
  • I managed 16 out of the proposed 20 yesterday, but it was getting hotter and hotter and when my mile time reached 9 mins (owch) I knew there was no point carrying on. Methinks I need more races to motivate me.

    I managed my club 5m handicap in a tired 31+mins (I put down a more sedate 34mins but didn't know the route and had to follow someone quicker) and have a 5km league race on Thursday, which I intend to go flat out - anything over this will be a PB as I've never raced 5km before.

    I think I need a couple of half marathons to keep me motivated to do the 18M+ runs - my PB of 1hr 25 needs some destroying, plus I have my eyes on a 60 min 10 miler this summer / autumn.
  • nichs2nichs2 ✭✭✭
    JEJ,

    my pb's are 84'40" 63'50" 39'08" and 18'40"

    i think my 10k time is my weakest and should therefore target that....
  • Hey everyone,

    Haven't done a huge amount of running this last week - did a hilly off-road run last Tuesday, which was probably not a good idea as my piriformis muscle was a bit sore for a few days afterwards. Given that a problem with that cost me a few months off training last year, thought I'd better be very cautious with that one!

    Anyway, did 5 miles on Sunday and 10 miles yesterday, and all feels fine. Hopefully will be getting a good volume of training in this week - 15 miler next weekend hopefully?

    Nichs, sounds like you can definitely take some time off all of those. I'll be running a few 5ks and 10ks this summer too.
  • nichs2nichs2 ✭✭✭
    venom,
    there is a problem...i hate 10k's!... but i agree there is room for progress... my 3h03 marathon time is now (i feel) my "best" compared with other distances...10k on the track with club mates may be the best way to reach a pb ( the concept of being lapped by or lapping a friend is very powerful!)
  • Shorter faster runs seem like a good bet to me too. Midweek 10ks, here I come!
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    Yes, the tingles down the spine have finished (excitment not an injury) and time to look forward to FLM06.

    After a 3:00:57 will:
    - Follow the Pftzinger plan more devotedly, tended to dip in and out last time.
    - hopefully avoid a 2 week injury break in the last 6 weeks
    - A better race strategy
    - Run quicker
    - Hope for a GFA

    Short term plan
    - A few 10ks in May/ June to build-up speed, try adn improve on 38'21
    - A few 1/2's in the summer, as I like them
    - Cardiff Marathon in October

    Then from the base this gives, start training in earnest in November.

  • After nich's comments about his 10k time being the "weakest", thought I'd work out my percentages for the various distances using the age grading tables.

    5k 72.3% (May 04)
    10k 72.7% (Mar 05)
    10m 70.8% (in a half marathon, Mar 04)
    half 71.8% (Feb 05)
    mara 71.2% (Apr 05)

    Quite interesting. I know my 10 mile PB is very weak, as I haven't done a good 10 mile race in well over 18 months now. Half marathon is also quite weak, had a good race in the build up to London, but gained a lot of fitness and lost a fair amount of weight in the two months since then. 10k will take a bit of work to beat as I set that 2 weeks before London. Some good speed training will make all the difference there though.

    That all also implies that I'm better at the shorter distances too. No real suprise there...
  • nichs2nichs2 ✭✭✭
    venom,

    sorry about this but can you explain the percentages to me please....i use a table published in runners world a few years ago
  • nichs2

    The current tables were compiled by the World Association of Veteran Athletes (WAVA), the world governing body for masters (veterans) track and field, long distance running and race walking. The process involved analysis of masses of actual performance data. Curves were plotted, one for each event, "fitting" all known performances, including, for example, Lynford Cristie's 9.87sec 100m, at age 33, and Priscilla Welsh's 2.26.31 marathon at age 42.

    An achievement level of 100% would be approximately the world record level; over 90% would equate to world class; over 80% would be national class and over 70% would be regional class.

    How it works
    A woman of 53 runs 10K in 45.18.

    The 10K factor for women of 53 is .8545.

    Therefore, multiply 45.18 (2718 seconds) by .8545, which gives 38.43 as her age-graded time.

    The 10K standard (or theoretical world record) for women of 53 is 35.01 (2101 seconds). Divide this by 45.18 (2718 seconds), and you get 77.3% as her age-graded performance.

    FYI mine are

    1m 78.6% first ever track mile
    5k 76.9%
    10k 72.9% first ever 10k
    10m 74.6%
    HM 75.1%
    Mar 73.8%

    All done in the last 12 months.






  • Exactly as DN says. As I'm under 40, there's no age adjustment going on, but it still gives a useful way to compare performances.

    There's a webpage that does the calculations for you at http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/runcalc.html
  • nichs2nichs2 ✭✭✭
    venom and dull napoleon

    thank you...i can spend hours sifting through this type of stuff...sad really

    mara 75%
    half 74%
    10m 74%
    10k 73%
    5k 75% %age wr figures...i'm 43 and the 5k and marathon were this year the others were 3 or 4 years ago
  • niche2

    Sounds like you could be an accountant like me.

    Totally obsessed with the stats.

    They call me the anorak at my club!
  • Just back from a 5km race. My first one ever, so it was always going to be a PB. I made it 18:45 but lost a lot of time being boxed in with slower runners for the first half mile. Next thing I knew I was sprinting down the home straight - then it was was all over - 5k feels so short after running a marathon!

    I'm sure I'll smash that time on my next one, especially if I don't do a 10 mile steady lunchtime run just before the race (and the day before with speed work the day before that).
  • CartmanCartman ✭✭✭
    Am thinking that I might give FLM a miss next year and do Lochaber instead...Its clearly a p!ss easy course if TC managed a 3:09 on it ;-)

  • CM
    Are you trying to say that it's downhill for the entire 25 miles?
  • I too am a bit of an anorak; here's a site for those who are into numbers:
    RunningForFitness .
  • Oh looky, another set of formulae for performance!
    I found it interesting to put in my pre FLM HM PB, and compare the forecast with my FLM actual. Interestingly I had one single sub 3 forecast beforehand, and get one from this too. I even believe that I could have done it, had I not lost my pace notes beforehand..................................




    and had I not run slower than the necessary pace................................



    Still. I'm happy.
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