Marathon on 3 runs per week.

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  • Scott - I like ATP kinda sums it up. I've trained for years with no real purpose except overall mileage.

    Completed 19 miles in 2 h 38 the other night. It snowed and temp was -3. This off the back of the Inverness Half on Sunday so I'm pretty pleased. I have a 10k this Sunday so I've only run a leg loosener and a physio session this week.
  • Snapstinget - it clearly has some potential. One of my problems is that I don't see the point of doing 'weights', yet running achieves something (I go somewhere, see people etc). My x-training thus far has involved gardening on a Saturday, but rowing, spinning or the stairmaster sound a good alternative. What sort of weights sessions do you do...and are they useful?
  • hi all
    just picked up on this thread, not read all the posts yet.
    I am following this programme for a june marathon, this been week 3.
    have generally followed it without realising for the past 15 month since I branched into triathlons.
    most weeks I only run 3 times and then fit in a bike ride and a couple of swims.
    have knocked minutes off my 10 and 13 mile races over the past year
  • Pride comes before a fall. 10 days ago I posted to say how well my FIRST training was going. I then promptly went down with a sore throat and cold. Haven't run for over a week. Started to feel better today. Meant to run Bath HM on Sunday but think I will have to carry the place over to next year.

    There is still 5 weeks to go. Maybe the rest from running will help me get some more solid weeks of training and arrive at the start line fairly fit & fresh. Anyone got any suggestions or similar experience to pass on? Should I reduce the taper as I have already had some time off?
  • STM - there's quite a bit on this site about weight/strength training (use "advanced search" and enter "weight training" - you can pick and choose from what comes up, some stuff is more useful than others!)

    In my case I find leg work useful for ironing out imbalances caused by running. Squats in particular (seem to deal with knee discomfort); seated calf raises (hitting the solerus which can be difficult to reach otherwise); stuff that involves pulling with your hams; stuff involving the inside muscles of the thighs: i.e practically any kind of extension or abduction.

    "Core body strength" (the new buzz word?): crunches and sit-ups of all shapes and sizes really; stuff targetting back muscles. Mahcine rotations (though I prefer to to rotations holding a heavy weight betweeen two hands; quite exhilarating.

    And the macho vanity stuff: I like being able to bench press big weights or handle more than other people when I do dumbbell flies - the bench press in our gym isn't as visible as the weight rack :-) I don't think it helps with the running, though. In fact it's probably counter-productive. Don't follow my example on chest and shoulder stuff! Read up elsewhere :-)

    I don't count weights as x-training in the APT sense. Although if you did circuit training where you race from post to post and do the weights at high intensity, plus nasty stuff like pull-ups, chin-ups, etc, you'd be in the cardio zone before you knew it.

    OES - good luck with your recovery. I hope you'll be OK for the last long runs.

    brian - nice one.

    Right, breakfast time.
  • OES - treat it as a blip mand stick to the plan. A week will make little difference but it will have given your weary bones a break. Hang in there. You CAN do it!!
  • intended to do 15 or 20 today; the club that puts on the Copenhagen Marathon provides a great service every Sunday: training runs with pacers in groups at 10 sec per kilometre intervals (in theory anyway). I was going to run for 135 minutes with the 5:30 pace group, i.e about 24 k or 15 miles.

    But I had some work that I just had to get done, and I got back v late last night from the other sise of the country having spent the day teaching the DK equivalent of a national caoching scheme level 1 course (bit of s shock to find 5 sub 3 hour marathoners and an ultra lady who did the Spartathlon in the group among others!). We did some interval games and cordination exercises; two running sessions of about 60 - 90 minutes, and of course one can't help pushing it a bit during the games ...

    So ... I went down to the gym to use the treadie, intending to do 24 k. But after 18 my HR wa way up in the heat. I contemplated doing the last 12 k as a sort of rep session (6 x 1 k at MP with 1 k recoveries) but I've got my 20 miler next weekend (which may yet turn into a 40 miler if I'm not careful thanks to the inspiration provided by Ultra Lady) so I dropped out at 18 k or so.

    Oddly I don't feel remotely ashamed of myself, and I don't feel I blew a training session.
  • Hi All,

    Came back last night from Euro disney. Managed 1 session on the running machine, supposed to be the 4x1600 but I pulled out after 2 and a bit I went of too fast again. Then did some x-training and another fast 3k because I was fairly pissed off with myself. The 4 days in the eurodisney haven't been great for training (too much beer and rubbish food) Did the 20 miler this morning, again not good 3.02, I am starting to feel a bit anxious about the FLM as my running seems to get worse not better At this rate I am not coming inside 4 hours. Having trained most of the time on a 43 m 10 k schedule. I am keeping going but a bit worried. Reading other peoples positive stories helps :-)

  • Luc - I know what you mean. But lousy food etc is going to affect a 20 miler even more than it'll affect a rep session. Also: the added strain of looking after your family is more of a drain on reserves than you might think.

    Another issue: I have been thinking about the implications of what Trinity (GFA FLM, trophy winner on various nasty things longer than marathon length) told me on another htread. If you don't refuel properly during these fast long runs it effectively turns them into races. As we know it takes some time to recover from races. I suspect post run nourishment is also more vital than I thought. Check out various RW articles for advice on this.

    Next point: FIRST emphasise the busines of pace. I can now see that my bad days have been in conjunction with hard sessions that I've done too fast.
  • OES - I would stick with the plan but make sure you get the speed sessions in as well as the long runs. Go for quality sessions not quantity.

    I have had a troubled few weeks training wise and done little training part from the long weekend runs. (I believe the advise I have been given before that the long weekend run is the base on which everything else is built).

    I just did the Bath half marathon this morning and it was not the distance that caused problems it was the speed. I'm not complaining. At 1 hour 50 minutes I have taken 16 minutes off my previous best time! (okay my previous was not that hot, but how do you think I got the name! :-) ) At the end I felt I could have gone further but during the race I was struggling to go faster!

    I think that missing out on the speed sessions for the last few weeks is the reason. So now I really need to make sure that I get the speed sessions in. The three week taper still has some quality speed work in it, just no really long runs.

    Philbert - I did look out for you today but sadly we missed each other. How did you get on? It was hotter than I expected, so perhaps the long sleeved top and running tights was not the best choice of kit after all! One lesson for me is that for the FLM I will be wearing shorts (unless it is actually snowing!).
  • OES - The one change I have made to the plan as published in RW is that I have increased the length of the long runs. I've already done two 19 milers and I have 20 milers for the next two weekends before a final outing in the Reading half in three weeks time (and the equivelent of two tempo runs in the taper).
  • Ran the Nairn 10k today first 3 miles in 18 minutes and on for a cracking pb when twang goes the hamstring. It's not a really bad one but I need lots of TLC in the next 10 days. Paris is looming but I feel I have a good training base behind me so all is not yet lost. I think i was underhydrated when I started.

    Luc: don't worry Snaps made a good point about a month ago. We are putting in very hard sessions and maybe pushing a bit too hard at times. You will have a taper before FLM. That's when it pays off. Keep the faith!!!!
  • MTJR - sorry we didn't spot each other today well done on a brilliant improvement in your time. I thought it was an excellent race - did 1:30 race time which I was very pleased with for my first half. It was warm in the sun I agree, just a bit gusty coming back into Bath - twice.

    A weeks rest now I think.

    Stick with it Luc.
    Bad luck BM2, go steady with that hamstring.
  • Well raced today MJTR and Philbert. Cracking PB MJTR!!

    Look after that Hammie Brain.

    First long run for about 5 weeks for me today. Schedule said 15m at PMP + 10 secs but my plan was to run around PMP + 25-30 secs, due to the recent injury and not wanting to push too hard too soon. Was probably the best 'long' run I've had in ages. Felt very strong right up until 14 miles - last mile was all uphill and into the wind! Ended up running at PMP + 15 secs (8:30's). Its really given me the confidence for the next 2 weeks of 20 milers.

    Rest day tomorrow.
  • MJTR, BM2 & Snaps - thanks for the encouragement.

    I reckon I am still a couple of days away from proper running, but will try a loosener tomorrow. Then I plan to stick to the schedule but will probably skip intervals till next week.

    MJTR if you are planning to swap tights for shorts take care. Two years ago I ran in shorts for the first time that year in a 10k race. By half way the insides of my thighs were rubbed raw. I managed to finish but I could not have run any further. For several days after it was painful just to walk. Apply plenty of vaseline before you start.
  • Thanks for good wishes guys. Been on RICE, arnica,rhus tox, anti-inflammatories and chondroiton since the injury. Going for Physio above and below the injury tonight. The physio reckons it was caused by my achilles and underhydration - beware guys keep drinking and stretching. I'll update soon.

    Philbert and ICRAM- well done guys fantastic results.
  • Did the long run this morning, messed up thought it was 10 miles not 8. I was outside schedule by some 15 sec/mile. I can only put this down to some of the undulations and Sundays long run. The positive for me was that when I started this program I ran this route in 1.45, this morning I did it in 1.19. It is the hills were I end up loosing quite a bit of time still 4 minutes behind schedule aint that bad
  • MJTR - sorry missed you out. If you keep taking 16 mins off we'll have to change your name to MRTJ!!!!!!!!!
  • Broke schedule today: ran home from work. It's a route I've measured on maps, by Garmin and using my S625X to be just over 13 miles. I took it easy and kept my HR to about 75%. I would say I'd have had trouble pushing the pace much higher though. I think the hard sessions are causing muscle weariness to accummulate. Anyway, Did it in 1:54.
    Next key session will be those 400s: on Wednesday for me. I'll use the track even if it means the 400s will be more like 435 metres!
  • Did the 10 x 400m today. Ran 400m recoveries after the first 2 but have a bit of a cold and that was proving quite tough. Decided to walk for 1:30mins as a recovery for the remainder of the reps.

    Target for the reps was 1:35-1:40 secs. Managed all of them in 1:30 give or take 1 second on a couple.

    Good session and it actually helped with the cold this afternoon.
  • Well done ICRAM. I did the 12x400 yesterday on the treadmill. Six minute miles are still a bit beyond me but I did each rep in 1:45, with a 1 minute slow jog to recover. It felt like hard work at the time but I feel great today.

    I am in the last three weeks of hard training before I taper down for the FLM and my run at Bath on Sunday makes me feel that I need more speed work. I know the advise from FIRST is to not run on tewo consecutive days, but if I want to fit another speed session in for eack of the next three weeks, I need to have at least on back to back running day each week. Any strong reason why I should not do so?
  • Thanks BM2. If I reach my goal of running the FLM in under 4 hours I will change my handle for sure! :-)

    We should try to help Scott with his naming question. My offering is 3-2-win.

    3 runs, 2 cross training, it works!!!
  • With half an eye to my race on Saturday I
    did a short rep session today: 5 x 2 minutes off a 1 k warm up, with 2 min walk recoveries. This on recommendatio from melliferra on the training thread.

    I used the treadie at the gym: I decided on time rather than distance because the treadie takes up to 30 secs to crank up to the chosen speed. The result is anomalies like a much faster average pace for the 1st rep because it started right off my warm up, so I was running at the time!
    I averaged 6:10 mile pace for that one, then 6:47 for the others, but of course I was only running flat out for 1½ minutes of each 2 minute rep. If my S625X is correct I managed 400 metres in each of those 1½ minute periods. However, I warmed down on what the treadie said was 8 minutes a mile but my S625X tells me was 8:13, so I'm not quite sure ...

    Anyhow, I set the treadie to 16 kph (10 miles an hour) for the reps. That's c. 3:45 minutes a kilometre.

    I would not have liked doing 10 or 12 of them I must admit. But then I'd have done them slower, of course.
  • Thanks for all the encouragement, did the 12x400m today. I did them of 400m recoveries on the treadie set at 1% incline. The recoveries were a mixture of jogging and walking. For the 12x400m I set the treadie to 9.8 miles/hr which is 3.49 min/k, it went very well, was comfortable and actually enjoying them.

    I just need to work out how to maintain speed on the long runs :-) I am still worried about PMP and whether I will be able to sustain 8 min/mile


  • Luc; nice one!

    The TLC is paying off. Just did 2 x 1 k on the treadie interspersed with mega stretching. The hammie still felt a bit wierd but not painful. Feel great after the stretch and topped it off with 20 mins in the steam room. My big quandry now is whether to taper from now til Paris on 9 April (sh00t is it that near) or do I go for one last long run? Your advice is most welcome!
  • BM2 - go for a long SLOW run. If the hamstring feels painful then call it off.
  • BM2 - I agree with Philbert. A long slow run. 9th april is only just over two weeks away! :-)
  • Just came home from the 15 miler (am in Newcastle this weekend so switched tempo and long run). I started of slowly and the did the second half quicker. still faded in the final 2-3 miles but came home in 2.04. Very pleased with that.

    Not having any experience still makes me worried about whether the taper will allow me to start at around 8 min/mile pace and maintain that for 26.2 miles but I guess we'll see.

    Another question: Are people also slowing down on the X-training in the taper?

  • Well done Luc - great times. I would suggest you taper the runs (obviously) but maintain the cross training.

    thanks for the advice guys. I'm doing a slow shortish run tonight. Physio at weekend then a longer slow run on Sunday. I'll let you know how it goes. B
  • On the subject of the x-training, what sort of things are people doing? in the past, my x-training has basically consisted of a shorter slower run and then weights (or vice versa). this probably doesn't count really, does it, since its essentially still junk mileage. so my question is what things are people doing?
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