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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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That’s a pain, Reg. But as you say, better two weeks out than any closer. I had a similarly timed cold before Abingdon last year and it was fine by race day so sure you’ll be ok. And re the review you linked - I have run 1000s of miles with a buggy and probably nearly that in supershoes. But never did the two meet!
I like the sound of that long run, TT. Plenty in there to keep things interesting. And a very solid 10M as well.
Good news the calf is better, SG. Looking forward to a full spreadsheet analysis of racing options!
Good going from your son, SC.
Snuck in a pretty hard parkrun effort on Saturday. 3.5M warm up to get there, then 19:05 for 8th on the winter course. A little surprised not to dip under 19 but it should make the sub 3 effort a little more exciting 😆.
12M easy on Sunday to give a previous few weeks of 70M, 80, 80, 70, 50 and now into race week. 4M jog yesterday and 5 today including 5 x 90s marathon efforts to keep things ticking over.
Legs feel pretty dreadful and generally tired all the time. I guess it is standard taper stuff and perhaps the body recuperating things a little after months of being smashed around in training.
Really hoping this wind does one before the weekend. It really is the most annoying of weather options for a runner.
Looks like a good last long one.
10 with 10 x 100m ish strides today, saw some gales on their way in the forecast so nipped out before lunch and wind wasn't too bad. HR seems to have settled down a bit from yesterday and strides felt very nice, maybe because of a helping breeze
I'd pay no heed to the parkrun. You don't want to be in good 5km shape just before a marathon. You've put in some impressive training leading into this, so I reckon you'll smash it!
Reg - I rarely look at the weather forecast for training. I figure if it's windy on a long run and windy on race day then at least I've got some practice in! Though, tbf, if I'd known it was going to be that bad I might have changed my plans. Glad to hear you're feeling better.
I binned a run today for the first time in weeks. I was aware of a niggle in my left shin over my last two runs, and it was still there today, and as today was only planned as an easy double it seemed pointless to take a chance.
Set off vaguely thinking about the 6m continuous tempo, but with licence to split it up if need be. Bit windy and grim.
Licence I took, and it panned out as
2m 6.19, 6.20
1m 6.09 (well, another 28secs over at 6.07 too)
0.75m 6.07 (0.77m)
0.5m 6.02
0.25m 1.19 (5.30 pace)
2x0.13m 42,41 (5.05 and 5.16 paces)
Because none of it was programmed in, some of the reps were slightly off, eg. 0.49m instead of 0.5m and 0.14m instead of 0.13m etc, but not much odds.
Worked as a nice little tour down the paces, off fairly generous recoveries (2m the stated for all bar the last 2, but checking back most were about 1.52 or so).
Deffo some work to do, but actually not too bad a sesh in the end.
TT - Interesting comments about 5k shape for a marathon. Agree it's more sensible to be in shape to run a great 26 miles - but conversely if the marathon was suddenly changed to 5k, runners should still be able to run a decent time really. My last 3 weekends before Berlin were 2 x masters track final days and then the 6 stage relays. Always felt that really helped my preparations and feeling 'fast' on the start line.
Probably more horses for courses thing I suppose?
Ran at home last night, using the 1k loop near my house to do 8 x 1k with a counted 80-90 secs recovery.. Straight out with no warm up, so kicked off with a 3.40, but got four of them under 3.20 which was ok in the crappy weather and a bit of pavement traffic etc..
SC - Good work on the 1k reps, that sounds more like the sort of session I do and perhaps I could do faster work with a group at a track. I have started considering training in a group once a week post marathon.
Recovery 6 this morning, the PM 4 double is optional in my mind and the weather may be the clincher. Talking of which, current forecast is looking quite warm for race day. Obviously it's not to be relied on this far out but a warming trend is clearly there.
Yes looks great for Marathon supporting..beer in hand outside the Farriers
The only problem with a later than usual in week sesh, is that Friday for the next one comes along a bit sharpish
Nice to see a weather map pasted in!
Had to waste lunchtime trudging to and from a bank and patiently jumping through hoops when there, so the token 3m second run got binned until about 5.30pm.
It had just wazzed down, so motivation for such run was not skyhigh.
So 5:30, 5:42 & 5:37. The extras being 5:30 pace. Supposed to be 5k pace so not really quick enough but this is pre-breakfast and a 6:25am start. Pretty blustery and unusually difficult to tell exactly where the wind was coming from.
I remember trying 2x1mile at 5k pace in the Moz days, so going for the zone pace rather than what i was putting in for 5k at the time, and I remember being down in a heap near my work after the 2nd mile
I don't ideally plan a Wed - Fri effort combo, but it panned out that way.
Track was a little windy and drizzly - classic sort of return after a while away fare!!
8x600m, 2x400m, 2x200m the sesh, 90secs, 60secs, 30secs for the various bits, though in reality, only one of the 400s has 60 and one of the 200s has the 30, as the other one takes in the longer recovery following the higher distance....
Felt that sort of cautious "make sure I don't utterly blow the beans off rep 1 and 2 then fade off the planet" sort of not smashing it level, but you tend to find your current level.
Couple under 2.05, 6 at 2.05, and a couple of lax 2.07s, making for a sort of 2.05xx average.
81/83 400s, and 36/38 200s. By the time it was 200 time it was utterly pouring down
Have done this sesh a fair bit quicker, but that's in the past, and it's all about the here and now, and what's coming ahead.
So that's on the grid, and hope bedding these back in gets some higher gears back into proceedings.
But for now, thank goodness that's done
Our heating has packed up, need to wait 10 days for a new system to be put in. Good job the weather is getting better!
Just the olde 5k this morning. Short leg at National relays tomorrow thankfully. Weather looks ok, so should be a good day.
10days SC, that's an arse. Thank goodness it's this time of year though eh! Although these days it's no guarantee, has been a couple of miserable days recently.
Quick turnaround between southerns and nationals isn't there. Keep your ear out for where the masters will be. That'd be odd not being at Birmingham, albeit potentially much better than having to trudge up there.
Cue it being some Northern heckhole
Slight down first 8, then bit of a road climb, muddy short woody trail and then muddy gradual climb up into Wycombe.
300 feet over less than a mile, which explained the just about scraping in sub 9.
Always a gruelling few miles in this one, and even the downhill benefit later was down some woods. Makes sense for a 7.35 pace job.
Hit 60 or more (61!) for the first time in 5 weeks with that little flood of races.
Previously mentioned shin niggle is still problematic. 0.67m jog this morning.
Hope this niggle is nothing serious TT.
My final (medium) long run, yesterday. 13.1m rather than 13 just to get half of next week done. 6:39 pace firmly in zone 2. I had a thai take-away the night before that was a bit spicy and so I had a bit of an unsettled stomach. I then decided to take a gel and within 10 minutes I had to find a public convenience. So I am in a bit of a do I use a gel or don't I quandary. This mornings run also involved a turnaround after a mile to go back home to then go back out again. No way the gel was affecting me the next day so I don't think it's gel related. I don't really want to still be undecided at this point but hey ho, got to keep the final week interesting.
You're in good shape! And yes, the 5km/marathon shape is an 'all things being equal' comment. In your case I'd be unsurprised if the extra volume didn't equate to shorter distance pb' across the board.
I saw a physio (via BUPA) a couple of weeks ago who said my knees were fine but I have really weak quads (she did her best not to laugh out loud when I took my tracksuit bottoms off) so I now have 3 adjectives:
- male
- old
- weak
Apparently having strong quads helps the knees as they take some of the load and running does nothing to strengthen the quads so I have to do special S&C exercises to get bigger quads.PMJ - I've always found my quads quite strong just from running, but am going to start back up on weights and extras after Sunday. Hopefully the S&C sorts you out.
So National road relays, leg 6, short leg. Haven't got time to go over the whole leg as wasn't that interesting, didn't get overtaken by anyone. Its very slightly over 5k (I had about 50m) but it's a bugger of the course, with three hills in the first mile and then a few undulations - but a long downhill towards the finish with a couple of kickers and a final hill to the finish.
Finished with 16.47, and most runners were 30 secs slower than their recent best 5k time, so felt happy with that. Chicked by Gemma Steel with a 16.41 for the quickest leg.
Herne Hill finished 19th, ladies 11th. SG - Turns out the missus has known Emma T from Dachet since they were 9! They had a nice catch up.
Achy 12 yesterday (classic post Sutton Pk DOMS) and a still quite achy 7 this morning.
Small world SC - and decent turnout.
`12x400m for me off 60secs.
Was slightly perturbed when doing a few strides beforehand to find the first 100-130m or so of each lap was pretty windy, but it is what it is with track stuff, have to suck it up.
Thought in or around 1.20 would be reasonable.
Started with a surprising 1.17xx feeling reasonable, the second one said 1.18, but looking back was a 1.18.99 (!), and after that pretty much all 1.19, bar 4 x1.20.
Averages out something in the 1.19xx, so that'll do.
Even for us excuse making bastads there was deffo an easy 1 second per lap there without that windy start.
I could have started the other end of the track, where I believe most do, but then you just end into treacle not start into it
Late on I was thinking, i am DEFINITELY not racing any time soon.
Then driving off, thought, I might race soon
Just recovery plod this morning, I generally keep my watch covered on these and assumed I was running my normal 8 minute miles but in fact it turned out to be 7:42 per mile so I hope this is an indication that the legs are freshening up. They didn't feel fresh though.
SG - nice reps. Boston is a brutal course if you don't prepare properly (which I'd imagine is what done in EK). The downhills at the start kill your quads so by the time you get to the later uphills your legs go dead.
Reg - you're sounding good to go. I rarely feel fresh race week.
I seem to have got some reward for being sensible and turning back Monday when my shin still didn't feel right. After another day of intense rehabbing, 4m very easy yesterday am felt good, so I decided to have a more specific test yesterday afternoon (if I'd failed it I'd have bailed the race).
Ended up with 8m+ on a windy hilly loop around Bracknell, as: 4m 'fast' (6:08), 1.5m easy, 1km (3:13), 1m easy, 1/4m (72s), 1m easy. Picked up two Strava segments in the process apparently. Lol. The only time it was noticeable was during the fast quarter, but as I don't plan on running any of London at sub-5 pace I'm hopeful I'll be fine.
Am carrying on with the rehabbing to be on the safe side.
Good rehabbing and management, TT. Good luck at the weekend!
Sounds like you are freshening up nicely, Reg. Spicy food post race sounds the best bet. Good luck as well!
Very tidy reps, SG. Can’t complain about 150m of wind, surely?! Impressive paces and good to see you race juices are flowing again.
Well done at the Nationals, SC, in spite of the chicking 😉.
You have a rare physio, PMJ. It’s usually strengthen the glutes. But yes, quad strength form knees does make sense. What exercises have you been given - lunge based?
Manchester Marathon 2023 race report:
Having been through quite a few marathon cycles, I decided this year I wanted something a little different - and so settled on doing the 32M hilly Dartmoor Discovery in June. I had no plans for Manchester, and wasn’t especially keen on doing it again, but the friend I ran with last year convinced me and we entered. I got sucked in to the ‘entries closing tomorrow’ a few months ago - turns out they were still open in race week 😆.
With the DD the focus, and keen for a slightly different flavour to training, I have made all the usual speed and tempo sessions since December strictly on hills - whether they be two minute hard v02 reps, or longer steeper tempo style workouts. In fairness, I have done some long runs with marathon effort around Worcester Racecourse - a flatter circuit you couldn’t imagine. I was pleasantly surprised with a fast 5M race in January (29:2x) although disappointed with some cross country races and a 10k in February. These coincided with an illness and heavy training so did my best not to let them factor in to target setting for Manchester. (Sorry, I’ll get to the actual race in a minute 😴).
With a minute or two under sub-3 seemingly my par post pandemic/post stress fracture, I couldn’t see a reason for this miraculously speeding up in spite of the pretty hefty mileage weeks. Last year’s Manchester was run with a 2:55 goal (6:40s) in mind, and the wheels came off for a very painful finish in 2:58:30. Didn’t fancy that again, so made the decision to follow the pacer. My friend ran 3:05 last year, but has had a stellar spring running 35:54 and 1:19, but has suffered with knee problems for a few weeks. We felt it sensible he went with the pacer too.
In the end, race day weather was perfect - 9-11C and 2-4 mph wind. But it varied enormously in the 10 days in was on the BBC app. A good lesson in ignoring it in the build up! Left our AirBnb in Monton and it took just over an hour to get to Old Trafford cricket ground. After the usual bag drop, loo queue etc, we headed to the next waiting zone. Last year we were kept here for quite some time, but we received some incredibly mixed messages this year ranging from: ‘quick, you need to run, you are very late for your wave’, to ‘the start is delayed, please hang back’ 😆.
In the Red A start and we could see the White and Elites ahead. Impressively, there was an official sub-2:45 pacer. Only found our pacer at the last moment and joined the huge group around him, probably setting off 15-20s behind. The pace was a little varied, from 6:40s to low 7s, but I’m not convinced the markers were completely accurately placed this year. Really enjoyed chatting with Ben and the first hour flew by. There is no way I could have a full chat at 6:45 pace in any other context. Quite enjoyed playing a game of guess the split each mile, although I lost 5-2 before we got too tired later on.
Enjoyed going through the busy city centre at 4M and caught a glimpse of the Theatre of Dreams a short while later. Felt much fresher through 5M, 10M and into half way than at the same points last year. We crossed 13M where weirdly there was a timing mat. We then crossed the half way marker at 1:29:40 - ideal pacing (on average). The timing mat was obviously in the wrong place for the tracker as we later found this was giving some more generous estimated finishes.
Usual a gel every 5M (two Maureen 100 and two caf), and a systems check a mile later - a good way to feel our each muscle is feeling and pass half a mile or so. It remained tremendously busy around the pacer and I was favouring running just behind or to the side - at this point it seemed mentally preferable to being in front.
There is a climb in Timplerley around 17M, but then a fun descent down the high street. Finally, my hill training was paying off! Although I was still employing the usual tactic of falling back a bit on the up, catch up for free on the down. Around 20M I could just glimpse Ben, but we were definitely separating a little, and all chat was gone by this point. I gave my usual (no doubt annoying) gag of ‘half way’ as we passed this marker. I had hoped to feel fresh, and whilst that wasn’t quite true, I was a lot stronger than last year. Saw off the final gel at this point as a boost to the finish.
The pacer seemed to deliberately slow through a water station and I naturally moved a short way ahead. At around 21M this felt easier as it was less crowded, but I was then running with the fear of seeing him again and the possible collapse of resolve of being overtaken. Maintained pace really well, with a 6:35 and 6:40 coming in - and then the bloody watch battery died! In some ways quite freeing, but also a bit weird. Should really try watch free racing at some point (I remember HA77 did to his sub-2:30) but then I ordered a new one when I got home 😆.
Around 24M it got bloody hard - but, crucially, I wasn’t actually slowing to any significant degree - and the pacer was still just behind. Had to then pull out all the mental tricks formed over the years of racing: dedicated a mile to each of my two kids and one to my grandmother, counting up to 10 and back down goodness knows how many times in the last mile. Some twinges of cramp now coming in and the form definitely faltering. It was useful to know the course at this point and remember the finish arch could be identified from a long way off.
Getting closer - only to hear shouts of well done pacer - bloody chap was gaining on me. Gurning and sprint hands pulled out with a couple of hundred to go - and my goodness it was rammed. Through the finish line to look at the (still dead) watch - will have to wait for a time! Knackered. Everyone coming to a sudden stop, and the finish chute is in danger of being overwhelmed. Snuck around for a couple of minutes to look for Ben, but sadly no sign. Standard agonising walk back to the cricket ground, and very pleased to be given some water.
Got the bag pick up to have a look at the text: 2:58:34. Only four seconds off last year! Would I have pulled it out the bag if I had had the info on my watch? Possibly, but probably not. Anyway, a much more pleasant experience to run virtually the same time - just a gradual increase in pain rather than a semi-serious blow up. So a slightly negative split of 1:29:40/1:28:54. I suspect a PB will always be a positive split, but this felt very satisfying 😊.
Ben came through in 3:10 having suffered with a bad stitch. Just pleased his knee was seemingly ok as we recover before DD. We were both pretty knackered. He headed to David Lloyd for a shower, steam relax etc, whilst I got in the car to head home. Definitely the wrong decision! Crash after crash on the M6 and then there was no hot water at home 😆.
It's certainly no given, as proven by a couple of my clubmates recently.
That shot above is amazingly congested. Are there times that it's even more congested later on, where people struggle to actually get across the line?
PMJ - hill reps on a bike are good for building atrong quads.
SG - lots of folks could run a strong 1/2 off their mara prep, but being strong enough to execute a strong marathon needs a bit more strength rather than speed.
I still havnt made a start line this year, I had just about got moving a bit better in February when CV19 put me on the bench for a week, the struggle to get moving again set off the hip/glute sciatica thing again. Had some physio and am on the exercises, mobility, drills and strides to try to make my body work properly. Tedious.
Sounds like good news TT, fingers crossed that shin behaves and some nice speed in that session too.
Dress rehearsal for me today. 8 miles with 2 miles around MP. Hamstring/glute is a bit tight, averaged 5:49 after easing into it a bit. Picked up my race numbers in London today, slightly perverse situation of champs start having two race numbers. Didn’t seem too silly when it was something you tied to your shoe laces but wearing two race numbers seems a bit daft.