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Moving the goal posts

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    The Kremlin is getting quite cross, apparently, as other Russian athletes are getting busted for it, too image

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    SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭
    Andy D - I too am surprised at the level of sympathy for her. I have no doubt that she was taking it as a PED and she was obviously given plenty of warning that it would appear on the list. Seems odd that her medical team aren't as slick as her PR machine. My 16 yo nephew trains in the GB cycling Olympic development squad and can't take as much as a lemsip without them OK-ing it. So seems dubious that the world's top paid sportswoman wouldn't have experts checking each new list. And apparently it had been on the 'watch list' for a year.



    I did read somewhere that this drug can stay in the body for up to 6 weeks so it seems odd that more of these athletes aren't using that in their defence, i.e. that they last took it in December but we're still able to test positive in January.
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    RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Whether or not Sharapova has a team of professionals tending to her every need; and it's possible she might just hit tennis balls alone, the issue here is that's she's been painted as a drug taking cheat, with a retrospective view to culpability.

    Her sponsors (by ditching her) are functioning at face value knowing full well that the issue was not cheating but carelessness, about not reading emails or checking up on the latest WADA directives.

    Unprofessional! by who's standards?

    The sponsors incidentally have seen an opt out of a very expensive obligation and have grasped it with both hands.

    Next thing we'll see are lawsuits flying in from the sponsors wanting all their money back. I don't doubt they have considered that for one second.

    🙂

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    That's the way I see her Ric - a drug taking cheat. You seem to have a soft spot for her ?



    Is it likely that a strapping young girl seemingly at the peak of fitness should require drugs for heart treatment ?



    Or more likely that an athlete takes a drug that they don't medically need in order to gain benefits from it.



    I've followed cycling for decades and they were always painted as being a dodgy sport. They have at least attempted to clean up their act - but only once the dodgy admins were kicked out and I think its basically down to sponsors pulling out. Who wants to be seen backing drug takers ?



    Her sponsors shying away are just what we need. I don't think they can claim money back for past years when she was legal though.



    Any sport that has high rewards has people doping. It's just that some sports don't look for it, and as a result can claim to be clean.
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    cougie wrote (see)
    That's the way I see her Ric - a drug taking cheat. You seem to have a soft spot for her ?

     

    If you remember the "panarama"(sic) thread, he generally has a hard time even believing that Salazar and possibly even Lance Armstrong have any enthusiasm for PEDs image

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    RicFRicF ✭✭✭

     She was drug taking, like me. But the stuff wasn't on the banned list for a decade.

    Set your standards where you like and you'll always have a number either side of the line marked 'approved'.

    Oh, I take alfacalcidol. It's a vitamin D bullet. I've no calcium regulators left so have to play silly buggers with calcium tablets.

    Nice cramps when I get it wrong.

    Forgot to add, I reckon that screaming of hers when hitting the ball is more akin to cheating. No need to 'hook' up your vocal chords when exerting yourself.

    She's doing on purpose to put her opponent off.

    I switch channels the moment she appears.

    No soft spot I'm afraid. 

    🙂

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    what evidence have you Ric that she accidentally carried on taking them.and not taht she needed the extra advantage they gave her and thought because of her power and her position that she could get away with it

     

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    senidMsenidM ✭✭✭
    Oh, just heard what the inventor of Meldonium thinks following its ban



    "We will see many deaths on the field," Ivars Calvins told BBC Radio 5 live



    Suppose we're going to have a rash of Russian athletes popping their clogs all over the place - or perhaps not
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    RicF wrote (see)

     She was drug taking, like me. But the stuff wasn't on the banned list for a decade.

    No, she's not like you. She's not some guy on a forum who has trouble forming sentences- she's head of a multi-million pound business. Its primary asset is the reputation of Maria Sharipova, and one of the most important things for senior staff in that extremely valuable organisation to do is to make sure that it's not ruined.

    Focus on that aspect- a large and valuable business, it's not some helpless idealised damsel in distress, white knights are not required.

    If it was a company that made bikes, maybe it would have to try to make bikes that didn't fall apart while you were riding them- and would employ people whose entire job was to ensure their basic safety. However, it's a company that promotes the brand of a professional athlete- and job one is to ensure that the athlete not be caught taking banned PEDs.

    Things do not get banned overnight, there is plenty of prior warning given. The organisation needs, as a minimum, to have a competent person read the information from relevant governing bodies as it comes in.

    It failed to do so. It fucked up, got caught. It is Volkswagen- brilliant, culpable and damned.

     

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    skottyskotty ✭✭✭
    seren nos wrote (see)

     
    I did read somewhere that this drug can stay in the body for up to 6 weeks so it seems odd that more of these athletes aren't using that in their defence, i.e. that they last took it in December but we're still able to test positive in January.

    That's why they tell them about it in September.

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    Apparently tennis players were told 5 times in December alone about the ban, so it wasn't just the case of missing one email.

    Also if she needs the drug for medical reasons she could get a TUE retrospectively. 

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    seren nos wrote (see)

    They know there is a list each year.....sharapova is saying she had the email about the changes and read that there new drugs on the list.....but she didn't open the attachment to find out which ones.....

    That seems so strange for a professional athlete.......what more can the authorities do....they let athletes know that all changes are from 1st January each year...they send a personal email....no doubt it's also plastered on their website.... But the idiots claim they forgot to check...and neither did all their highly paid team..

     

    rodeoflip wrote (see)

    Good article on the BBC website today on this, analysing her announcement:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35754677

    Asks quite a few tricky questions of her.

     

    That BBC article is largely terrible. The "journalist" Tom Fordyce is an attention-seeking sod, who reports on a number of sports, and generally puts the focus on himself more than on the event he's supposed to be reporting on.

    Of course, there are some (obvious) fair points within it.  It seems very likely that she's bullshitting about why she's been taking the drug.  And I don't condone that at all. Although I don't know the rule book inside out, I assume that by definition, she was not cheating - but for me, she was bending the rules way too much for me....  but was not cheating.

    I am amazed how many people,  like seren, think that she knew it was banned from 1st January, but still decided to take it during the Australian Open.  Highly highly highly unlikely.

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    Just on the point of the shouting, Sharapova is not alone in this... in fact these days pretty much most of the women players make a noise on every hit of the ball, and now many of the men are starting to do it. Ever since Monica started it doing it (at least back then they used to give warnings for it), it has been a steady slide into a battle of grunts and shrieks... it actually stops me watching tennis pretty much these days.

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    "Many of the men are starting to do it"? They have done it for many years, Connors was making on-court sex noises in the 70s.

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    RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Well if Sharapova was making sex noises on court for genuine reasons... 

    🙂

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    MuttleyMuttley ✭✭✭

    I can't be doing with women's tennis these days either because of the grunting and shrieking. I dread to think what a din Sharapova makes in the sack.

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    UluruUluru ✭✭✭
    Daylight Baby   She got caught cheating, that's all there is to it.

    Why would a sponsor hang around an athlete who wasn't going to be playing again for some time? why would a sponsor align themselves to someone who cheated?

    Mmm Nike seems to be happy to sponsor Justin Gatlin??

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    Scotty said the same thing earlier.

    I don't know their moral stance vs business model decision making process but clearly they feel it won't harm their sales but I still think that dumping a cheat would be the obvious route for a majority of companies, not just as someone said earlier, an easy out from an expensive contract.

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    RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Racquet maker Head is sticking with her due to her honesty and integrity in dealing with what looks like a mistake.

    The other sponsors must be asking themselves now if they misjudged the situation.

     

     

    🙂

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    skottyskotty ✭✭✭

    Due to the drug being on the monitoring programme already for a year it is highly likely WADA already knew exactly who was taking it. 

    They probably already had the 20+ athletes at the top of their list for testing in 2016.

    So if they genuinely wanted to inform them and let them know about the changes it isn't many people to contact.

    Rather than preventing athletes from taking the drugs it seems their main objective is to catch as many people as possible, get a load of positive tests justifying their existence.

     

     

     

     

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    they had thousands of athletes taking them and they contacted all athletes.......their annual budget for the whole organisation is less than she earns.......

    She did make a mistake...the same as all cheats...the mistake was she got caught.......

    Maybe one of her team messed up...maybe they reduced the quantity or the period of stopping before the event and had calculated the levels would be low enough in the testing

    But the one thing you cannot say is that she should be rewarded for being open and honest.......because she is still claiming she did not take it to help her performance and thousands of others were...she says it was for her health..........

    and the fact she owned up and didnt try and say her drink had been spiked etc is laughable to applaud.........she would of had high levels in every test she has done for the last couple of years......so she could not try and use the old excuse i was framed....

     just because she is pretty, white and with a massive PR team behind her people want to believe she is a victim

     

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    skottyskotty ✭✭✭

    I am not claiming she is a victim, it was her fault and her responsibility but I can believe she made a mistake, it was an oversight and she did not know it had now been banned.

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    And neither did her doctor and coach ?



    I'd expect the manager would want to cover that off too - who makes sure she has her gear when she's on tour ? And should she be on a drug that isnt approved in the US where she lives ?
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    skotty wrote (see)

    Due to the drug being on the monitoring programme already for a year it is highly likely WADA already knew exactly who was taking it. 

    They probably already had the 20+ athletes at the top of their list for testing in 2016.

    So if they genuinely wanted to inform them and let them know about the changes it isn't many people to contact.

    Rather than preventing athletes from taking the drugs it seems their main objective is to catch as many people as possible, get a load of positive tests justifying their existence. 

    They had several hundred positive tests for the drug before it was banned.  And they did inform them, it was made clear well in advance and sent out by email.  What do you expect them to have done, gone and knocked on her door to tell her they knew she was taking it?

    I'm sure there are some within WADA who love getting some positive tests, but equally there are athletes who won't believe they'll get caught unless they see some positive tests.

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    NessieNessie ✭✭✭

    I can't feel sorry for her - unless it turns out she really has a heart problem that this drug was needed to fix.  Ok, it wasn't banned, but using any prescription drug for anything other than the use it is intended is drug misuse.  Technically, taking paracetamol when you are not in pain or have a fever is misuse.


    There's a reason that some drugs are prescription only or pharmacy only - because they can be harmful if not taken correctly or if not needed. What message is she, and others like her, sending out, even if what they are taking is not on the banned list? 

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    RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    The original issue with drugs and sport wasn't about the money, it was about the issue of how much risk ambitious athletes were prepared to take just to win.

    And the answer was they were prepared to risk death.

    This Sharapova business highlights a fact, that it doesn't matter what the drug is or does, if it's not on the banned list, it will be taken.

    The message being sent out is that behind the facade of physical perfection, there's someone who has disregarded common sense for a result. However, if the result is worth it.

    It's risk and reward.

    How many do risky jobs just for the money? 

     

    🙂

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    What amazes me is that a drug that appears to have obvious performance enhancing effects for any endurance athlete wasn't already on the banned list.  It seems to be more typically prescribed to elderly patients with serious heart failure or angina - so why would professional athletes in their 20's be taking it unless it was giving them an "edge" ?

    The whole area of TUPE's stinks to be honest - so many elite athletes appear to need "thyroid" or "asthma" meds etc, which lo and behold just happen to have a positive effect on endurance sports performance.

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    That should of course read "TUE", not "TUPE" (something very different !)

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    rodeofliprodeoflip ✭✭✭
    Racquet maker Head is sticking with her due to her honesty and integrity in dealing with what looks like a mistake.

    The other sponsors must be asking themselves now if they misjudged the situation.

    Honesty & integrity? She takes a drug for reasons which are highly dubious (hasn't she done well for someone with such a serious medical condition, and how unlucky to be affected at such an atypical young age?), this drug isn't even available in the US where she lives so she has to go to Latvia to get hold of it. The drug gets banned, she keeps taking it anyway until she gets caught. She then issues her own press conference and implies that she's just a victim of circumstance - she "wanted to let everyone know" and "she'd received a letter....." etc. Like it was nothing to with her.

    The only mistake was getting caught. She has all the honesty and integrity of an MP claiming expenses for a moat. Her sponsors will only be concerned with avoiding any negative perceptions of their brand, and will trip over each other to be seen to be acting in the way they think people would like them to, their "brand" will be their no. 1 concern.

    She is approaching the end of her career - a 4-year ban would effectively mean the end of her career, so if the authorities really want to stamp out drug-taking and send a message to other athletes, then they should enforce a lifetime ban. Works out pretty much the same for MS, but might make a few others think twice. Right now the likelihood of getting caught (in all sports) is so low, the potential benefits and rewards are so high, and the minimal penalties imposed for confirmed cheats are so low that it must be tempting to cheat, this needs to be turned on its head - this risk needs to outweigh the reward, and there's only one way that's going to happen. In black & white cases like this, lifetime bans are the only sensible way forward.

     

     

     

     

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    DustinDustin ✭✭✭

    Interesting to read this morning that Golf, not covered by wada, still permits the use of meldonium.

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