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Are you inspired by Alex Vero's ambitions, or slightly insulted?
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Don't forget Mr Vero is in a no win situation, even if he broke 2:15 later in the year or next year, people would say he failed as he never made bejing, if he doesn't hit the targets he's failed... when he doesn't admit anything he's a joke, when he admits he may have aimed rediculously too high then he get a slapped wrist for "lying" to people... it's a no win situation.
All he was doing was going to see how far he could push himself with the premise of qualifying for Bejing. I'm sure looking back now, he realises he wasn't going to do it... but why not? If he's doing it as a documentary, the BBC and other people wouldn't take any noticed if he called it "The road to 2:15 Marathon BTW I'm Alex".... he's come up with an angle and it's backfired... give the man a break, he's ploughing alot of his own money and time into the documentary and I'm all sure we'd love to see it on the TV, whether he's breaks 2:30 or not, just see see the underlying reasons WHY THIS COUNTRY IS SO CRAP AT RUNNING NOWADAYS! If it can inspire jo blogs to go out with his trainers on, and get BETTER to whatever level that may be, and if it's done that for one person and changed their life, then great.
I really don't see where the problem is, if you don't like Alex, fine, then don't listen to anything he has to say as it's not effecting you. To come across as insulting "how dare me or Alex say they're going to run a certain time"... it's rediculous... if I have a target and want to make that public, then fine, it's me that bears the brunt... just think it's getting just a touch personal... when no one on here knows what training he's actually been doing?
I'm 100% sure Alex will break 2:30, and I personally thingk he'd have done it in London as I've seen some of his training... however, we'll never know and maybe he will never break it, who knows and maybe I'll never break 2:36... doesn't matter what he or myself say as no one will believe anything we say anyway UNTIL WE DO WHAT WE SET OUT TO DO. Until then, it's all swings and roundabouts.
BTW, when I didn't break 2:36 at Edinburgh, I admitted in my own thread I wasn't good enough, but I also admitted I wasn't going to break it weeks before the race, so I think I was man enough to admit I'd bitten off at that point in time more than I could chew.
Pug
But if he'd said that 2 years ago you'd have laughed just like me or Alex. Mmmm... 2:30 isn't world record pace, infact in world terms is crap... and theres god knows, 100's of people, probably 1000's that could do that time in this country if they put their mind to it, they just choose not to, that's the difference.
Everyone laughed 18 months ago when I said I wanted a 2:50 marathon when I was 15 stone and hadn't ever run one and had a half PB of 1:31 ... 2:51 ain't bad for my 2nd Marathon!
However I do agree with people that you have to prove your worth and so be it. Until Alex breaks 2:30 no one will care and fair enough, why should they.
Pug
Now that would make good TV instead of hiding behind the internet.
I doubt that you will take up the offer but who knows?
Does a TV Producer really need to put themselves through all that to prove a point and raise public their proflie? I mean if he was doing a show about heroin addiction would he get on the smack for a few months just to see what it was like? Or maybe a telling programme about Britains obesity crisis - then at least he could go back to being 16 stone!
Love it or hate it I'll be glued to my set when it comes out
Pugheaven
Talking of apologies, are you going to tell him or shall I?
Alexander Vero
You and Pugheaven seem the angry ones. To paraphrase your fellow lardster Pugheaven, if you don't like having the p$ss taken out of you, don't make such outlandish claims. You can fool some of the people some of the time ...
Alex- please feel free to get in contact with me. I'll be happy to talk on camera about it- in fact you've already zoomed in close on my posts before with my name on and have always said that I'm willing to stand by anything I say on the forums which is why I use my own name 95% of the time. (Only using HH as a joke my usual forum name is BrynR)
The way I see it...
1. Alex knew that he was never going to qualify for Beijing and so was using it as a method to try and attract interest and funding for his documentary. Whilst this is probably good business sense making claims that are never going to happen and he knew were never going to happen it's hardly urprising that all the other athletes who knew it was never going to happen have some resentment towards you using it entirely for your own ends.
2. Alex thought he realistically could make it. In which case those of us saying he couldn't from the start were almost trying to help him from himself rather than criticize him.
If he did think he could realistically make it- whilst I then have more sympathy he then must have thought one of two things...
1. I'm more talented than anyone else and so therefore will be able to do it in two years.
2. Despite being as or less talented than the top guys I can make it over them due to hard-work.
Both of which show incredible naivety. Especially number 2 given the actual level of training. I seem tor ecall seeing hte weeks for at least one part top out at 100km a week which seems incredulous given there are probably 20 5k runners alone over 100 miles let alone marathon runners in the UK!
Tony- drop me an email as I've seen some of your earlier posts and they look interesting and would like to give you my opinion on some of them privately!
I've a lot of sympathy for your Alex as I did the same as you. Came from a road running community and thought that I'd be able to step it up with the athletics lot which most sub 2:30 guys are and 99% of sub 2:15 guys. The difference is huge though and it's an almost impossible gap which you just don't realise.
My own story is going from a 61:42 10k (flat-out) to a 33:16 10k literally 2 months after I turned 18 after years of relatively hard work. At that point I knew I still had a mountain to climb to get even close to the level of the guys going to the olympics and even at that level there were around 100 lads my age in the country faster and maybe 40 more in younger age groups. To give a level of perspective that's 140 young runners in hte country all capable of running some probably 3 minutes faster over 10k than Vero. Whilst I appreciate the cinderalla-esque nature which some seem determined to bestow upon this story. Let me tell you htat having seen serious committed athletes try, and try hard it's a one in a hundred shot at best. There are the success stories out there and a serious look at those athletes and those that have tried and failed would make a far more compelling story.
Congratulations on your improvements so far and keep up the hard work once this injury is gone. You clearly have the ability and drive to make a good club runner and only 1 in 25 or so has the ability to do that without a lot of hard work. The only problem is that it is then 1 in a 100 to make the transition from that to a sub 2:15 runner.
Yes, HH great post. I wonder whether he'll take up your offer. I doubt it, but who knows?
Well done on your own achievement getting down to a 33 mins 10km, that's very good going to almost halve your time.
You make some interesting speculation about the project and like most people never really bother to find out all the facts. The elite end of the sport of marathon running at the moment is not very popular and in term of strength and depth is struggling to attract people into it. I saw an opportunity to further my career as a documentary maker as there were numerous angles to the project that could be explored including obesity, changes in UK society, the rise of the African runners, these are all interesting subject but with the addition of the documentary maker integrating himself in the project creates a style of documentary making that is rarely done. I used my own story to appeal to 99.9% of the population/audience who have no interest in split times and running chat because they find it very difficult to associate with it.
I set myself the challenge to aim for Beijing at the start of the project and took the attitude that anything was possible until proved otherwise and to see how far I could end up in a 2 and half year period. Of course the time scale is relatively short in terms of marathon running but you need to understand that I have different motives to you. It so happens that this is part of my job and at the end of the project I would have had a damn good time, meet some amazing people, traveled all over the world, fulfilled my running ambitions to the best of my abilities and been paid to do it all. This is where I think it grates on people like yourself and the resentment comes in because I have had the opportunity to really make something from running. I realized last year that running 2:15 was never going to happen no matter how hard I tried or how long I trained and set my targets of running under 2:30 for London which judging from a recent physiological test I should have been able to achieve.
I don't pretend to be better then anyone else and have never criticized any individual runner or take great pleasure in doing so. If the project is so degrading to marathon runners do you think the likes of Bill Adcocks, Mike Gratton, Richard Nerurkar, Bruce Tulloh, Frank Horwill and Haile Gebrselassie would have given me an interview?
As I have said before when you watch the final documentary you will understand what the project is about and you never know you might actually enjoy it.
If you are in an around London please do get in touch directly and I will set up a time to meet up for an interview. My contact details are on the website.
I think Bryn touches on an interesting point which is the difference between the road running community and people who have come through an athletics/track background. Road running is a great sport partly because it's easy to do relatively well without actually being that good - if you can run 36/37 minute 10ks you are towards the front end of the field in many races - the Nottm Marathon was actually won in about 2.50 the other year - these are times that most non vet (and plenty of older) men can reach with a level of training sustained over a few years that can be combined with a job and family relatively easily.
There are a lot of athletes that have come through track running from their teens that just don't focus on the kind of racing that most of us on here are interested in. I work with a guy who runs 32 minute 10ks but doesn't think he's much good because he trains with an athletics club who have other runners a fair bit better than him. I was out cycling with a clubmate the other day and was chatting about running and he revealed he used to run 30 minute 10ks (he used to train with a couple of lads I went to school with who were similar standard) but again didn't think he was anything special because he'd come through with what Bryn calls the "athletics lot" where the standard is that much higher. Personally if I was that fast I'd just take the easy wins in local road races and stuff trying to compete with the top end but each to their own!
"This is where I think it grates on people like yourself and the resentment comes in because I have had the opportunity to really make something from running."
Now that is arrogant.
This thread was silent for months and now it's alive
I like it hahaha...
Pug
Being a still fat runner after two years of running... having never run before... still getting PBs but nowhere near all you fast uns... I quite like Alex. I'm interested. Arrogance? I think a lot of faster, not quite elite, but good club runners can come across as a little arrogant whilst quoting their times. Live and let live. Alex has created some interest. How many non fast, nowhere near elite nor even club standard runners would find a documentary about an 18 year-old relatively fast club runner trying to break into elite standard interesting?
Which can the majority of amateur runners truely relate to? A fat beginner starting on a quest and showing the type of progress that we feel (even if it is a wrong assumption) is fantastic or a speedy youngster inching towards his/her goal from a position that most of us know we will never, ever be at?
Sorry guys and gals but I think there is a lot of indignation and arrogance around on both sides and not enough acknowledging this for what it is... a documentary maker trying to make his documentary as interesting for Joe Public Runners as possible.
Run and let run
There are really some excellent posts on this thread - Bryn, Alex (himself), Popsider etc but I really think some people of got an axe to grind with Alex for whatever personal reasons I don't know.
I personally think Alex's chance of making Bejing was very remote if almost impossible....but NOT impossible. It would have been an amazing story had it all came together. Sub 2.15 in under 2 and half years from a couch potato start was a big ask . However, if you don't aim high you won't reach your own ambitions.
Also, I think his story just reinforces the effort and training that is required for "Joe Public" to run a good Marathon time and not belittles them.
Fair to play to anyone who comes out with their targets and a training plan/regime to get there. I'm sure it does inspire many other people when you hear of a someone who has a ran a 4 hour plus marathon now running sub 3 hours.
I can't wait to see the documentary, I think it will be really interesting. The proof will be in the pudding as they say.
Anyone willing to pay me to go sub 2.30 or 2.15 from a 3.09 marathon? Well, if you don't ask you don't get!
I'm just interested in what he's done.
He's done well in what he's achieved so far.
Okay he ain't going to be in the British Olympic marathon team, but the documentary should be interesting.
at the risk of asking the bleedin obvious when is the progamme/documentary due to go out? sometime just before the Olympics i imagine.
love the idea or loathe it, the problem that i forsee, is the potential audience for the piece. we are all interested in running but is joe public? remember this is the public who watch dancing on ice etc.
i will be interested to see any trailer (or whatever they are called) that is produced. i imagine as a film maker the name of the game is to get shed loads of viewers and or publicity. Alex has to therefore simplify marathon running in order to make the issues easily and quickly understood by the potential viewer. in so doing (with his initial stated aims) he has inadvertently put some noses out of joint.
my 2 penneth - good luck to him. he could not possibly have thought of a more knackering documentary to make. Cant fault him for immersing himself in his work. My hunch is that he never really believed he would make the plane to Bejing.
good thread though. nice bit of needle. keeps me awake at work!
"Filmmaker Alex Vero's ambitious attempt to do a sub-35 minute 10k in his local club race - As an obese filmmaker weighing over 16 stone in January 2006 and an averagely talented runner I have totally immersed myself in the project in an attempt to beat Tom, BrynR and James Gilbert 2 in the Milton Keynes 10k".
It does seem to be missing something, doesn't it?
Pug - I agree, it's been a great thread.
It was timely to revive this thread now as (based on the original premise), Vero has failed to run under 2:15, or finish in the top three UK men, or be selected for Beijing. The doubters were right. Hence, it is the end of the road to Beijing and we can draw a line under it.
Or so we thought, since it transpires that it will now be the Road to Amsterdam (or MK as alhill suggests). I must admit that I'm slightly confused now and it would be good to get the Great One to answer Glennzo's question about when the film will be shown, given that the Beijing Olympics will have been and gone by the time of the Amsterdam marathon.
To counter the somewhat fatuous (sorry for the pun) argument that "if only one person takes up running as a result of seeing the film, it'll be worth it [blah blah}", would it still be worth it if an equal number of people get put off running by it?
Imagine there are some youngsters out there now who have a mind to run for UK at the London Olympics. Can't be that hard, no skill required, just a case of doing the training. Then they see the film and realise that after two years of effort and dieting, being advised by some of the best coaches in the business, access to many of the top athletes, getting paid to do it, all you're left with is a 2:58 marathon and a good club-standard half-marathon time. No glory, no riches, no fast cars.
How many of those wil be saying "No thanks mate, we'll go back to eating pies"?
Alhill, nice one.......chuckle
Alex, hope that after the film is made you stick with the running and that you get satisfaction from it.
Realistically the best that most of us aspire to is being a good club runner and to earn the respect of our fellow competitors.....that's good enough for me.
I'm looking forward to watching the documentary.