Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
Are fast runners naturally fast, or can you train yourself fast?
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
An example would be long distance events where to get to county let alone national standard you really need a BMI towards 20 or less which some people are never going to achieve genetically without other disadvantages.
Piers
That's a load of cobblers. Genetics affect all levels of runners, from a six-hour marathoner to Mo Farah. They determine how fast you can can become as well as how you respond to training stresses. The simple truth is that we are not all born the same! Of course, most people these days don't get to test their limits. Either they can't spare the time for the training or they simply aren't interested in doing a huge amount of work for something that society at large does not attach much value to.
Anyone fancy creating and or joining me in a 12 week experiment to see if we can improve speed based on a 10k race? Running 6 days a week with an average mileage of say 50 Miles a week?
Ideally I would like 1 rest day a week and want to run with my club on Tuesdays (8 – 10 miles). The rest of the time I am willing to try any suggested method??
We could measure the results on a Garmin etc?
IMO you can train yourself to become much faster, but everyone has a natural threshold. Mine just happens to be (s)lower than everyone else's...
1. Body type - ectomorph (long/skinny, doesn't put on fat/muscle easily); mesomorph (powerful, puts on muscle easily) and endomorph (naturally tubbier, puts on fat easily, hard to put on muscle).
2.% of fast and slow twitch fibres - will depend on whether you'll excel more at marathon or shorter faster races
3. Time of life you start training
4. Time and commitment available to train
5. Weight you're carrying
Even if genetics are against you though, you can still train hard and reach your peak.
For example, at 34 yrs I started running, was a short tumpy endomorphic 5'4" size 14 even though I'd kept fit for years, but never ran. Started off running/staggering 2 milers, with a walk break in between averaging 11 min/mile.
I built it up just by slowly increasing runs, two years on ran a half mara at 2 hrs, the following year the same at 1.45. The following year I did my first mara at 3.58 followed by another 6 months later at 3.41 and this year am looking to get 3.30. Only now have I added speedwork and hillwork to my training. Oh, and another upside is, I've gone down to a size 10, I've not been that size since 12 years old!
Due to my age, now being 38, I don't think I'll ever get below 3.15, what with my age creeping up on me. And I find that I'm naturally better at marathons, not so good at the shorter faster races. So I've listened to what I believe is by genetic capability and that is what I'm going to work on.
I think the moral of the story is to play around, find what you're naturally better at and work damned hard at it. Hopefully you can find the time to do so, I'm lucky as we've got no children and I can dedicate time and effort to it.
Good luck!
But then, you show that through work and commitment you can get faster. Ok i know i wont be in the top 100, ever, but i could get to a respectable speed and time for by given age!! I might then be able to call myself a runner, although athlete maybe pushing it!
Bazza, great posts - and the point that we carry our entire running history in our bodies is one that can't be underlined strongly enough.
Can i ask, what sort of build and weight are you? Do you think your speed increase came about from a reduction in miles to an increase in training pace? or both!
RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!!!
conne is a bit harder than Dublin
my take on things is the body has an amazing way of adapting to what it does regularly, no matter what shape or size.
Your natural genetics and other factors like your natural VO2max rate will play a factor but I don’t think its the determining factor. some people can just run fast from the offset others need to train hard to get to that level. I think most of us genetically challenged runners respond to training really well, but we are all different.
I look at goals logically when I first started I could not run 1 mile with out walking , completing 13miles seemed impossible. A sub 1:30 half seems impossible to me now but I’ll do it one day. It won’t happen next month it will take years of hard work. If I don’t make it to that level at least I’ve had a good go and hopefully enjoyed it on the way.
Its funny we all get obsessed with goals as soon as we reach one we want more, when will it end.
Another suggestion to add to the stack you've already had (what a cracking thread!)
I did my first two mara's following Hal Higdon and did well. However, in the run up to London, I do one long run a month slow, off road and flat, one a long hilly trail onslaught and one road flat for 20 miles and get as near to race pace as poss. The race pace run knocks me for six the following week and I have to take it easy, so that's why I only do one, and on the following week I have to leave out the speedwork to avoid overtraining.
I've now got three of those under my belt and a total of 10 long runs before London so let's see how this theory goes. Btw, I always start long runs 3-4 months before, get 10 in then taper 4 weeks in advance, a week earlier than most plans. That bit seems to work well for me.
Don't know whether you want to try this approach or not. Something to think about anyway....
(ps, Velo, perhaps we'll do a sub 3.15 together at Abingdon one year!!!)
It could be an in-my-dreams thing, but if I can manage sub-3.30 on my current training (plus the five years of on-off running in my legs) then it's definitely a target worth chasing.
It seems that with running we have loads of contrasting theories. Ok, we have a majority consensus on some, such as doing a taper before a Marathon, not needing energy gels for a 10k etc. However we seem to have very little conclusive or scientific information about what makes a runner a fast runner. Nor do we have much information on what the average Joe could achieve based on certain characteristics such as weight, age, weekly mileage and training sessions.
Little Lizard, you will have to post how you do on here. Its difficult to measure how effective your training has been. Its seems that the vast majority of runners improve on speed year on year with the exception of those that either
a) are having a natural slow down due to age
b) undertake unfulfilled training regime eg, missing runs due to family commitments or injury
c) or suffer from a bad race (start too fast, feel ill, poor hydration etc)
I would like to know if an average runner that runs say 50 miles per week following say the Hal Higdon plan can take 15 mins off a marathon time each year, and if so is this because they are becoming more experienced as a runner. It is because the training becomes more effective because they are more relaxed? Could you take 30 mins by adopting a particular training regime? Could you have taken 40 mins off last years time if all your training was run at race pace? Or if moiré than 50% of your sessions we aggressive hill reps?
Do you think your next marathon time will be faster? Will it be as fast as it could have been?
yes you can train your body to take in more oxygen thats your fitness level.
I read that as you get older you are better at endurance sports. this is why you see young sprinters and older long distance runners. I’ll be doing my best times in my 40’s I reckon. I know runners that are 60+ and 70+ putting in breath taking times.
My mate at the club is still doing 37 10ks at the age of 58, very inspiring
Wasn’t there a recent article on a 65 year old male doing a 2:40 marathon?
I still believe logically if you keep training you will improve and can meet your goals I hope I’m right
I’m the type of person that likes to excel in what I put my mind to even if its not my talent and I’ve done some big things, but the simple sport of running really changed my life, I love that fact I push myself physically to the limit putting myself through pain for however long the race requires. I sound mad but everyone knows what I mean.
your right there is no scientific evidence about what makes a good runner but does there have to be? we know and its proven training works for 99% of us. How well you take to training, how much you need and how hard you are able to train is down to the individual.
If there was a magic test would you really want to know? What if it said you will never do a sub 3:30 marathon, would you believe it? Would you bother running again or Would you train ever harder to prove it wrong?
I still class myself as a beginner, I tell myself I’m not genetically cut out for this, but I still go for it at a race and I train as hard as I can, I’m still very slow compared tomost in here but I will improve. You have to think positive
I don't know if I will PB in London, I've never done that one before, or even run in such a crowded marathon.
The only thing I do know is that in the 5 races I've run this year (1x8 m, 3x half mara & 1x20m) I've PB'd in every single one of them.
I've only started doing hillwork/speedwork since I joined a running club in December, and that, along with running in a gang on our middle distance runs has really spurred me on.
I think a combination of joining a club, introducing speedwork and doing more than normal 20+ runs, one a month at race pace has combined to make me stronger. I'm sure there're other forumites telling a story on how different things have worked for them. I think as long as you're dedicated and regularly push yourself outside the comfort zone, you will improve. Oh, and one more thing, take proper rest days. I've only recently started doing that (I even had my own reader to reader thread on it!) and the results are speaking for themselves.
London will be interesting, but Abingdon in October will provide a better benchmark.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Id say some of us are more predisposed to relatively fast running than others by genetics but this is only a small factor and no excuse for why you cant run considerably faster times (if thats what you desire).
Far more likely to make someone naturally slow is poor diet and/or excess weight - nothing slows you down like excess pounds over what your body should be carrying. Even a few pounds makes a difference
the lighter you are the easier it is to run fast (to a point of course).
and there are only two things in life that are certain for everyone:
1) you will die
2) if you burn more calories than you consume you will lose weight
So thats not an excuse either.
it is an excuse if you are dead;)
I think hard training and what not will get you some of the way, but genetics gets in the way. Some people will never be able to get to a particular level because of who they are physically....some are bigger some smaller, and also some just more prone to getting niggles and injuries.
I think there is a maximum level of ability for everyone...and that it varies from person to person. I have done some really hard running weeks (for me anyway)...and I start to feel as though things are aching and the wheels are about to fall off if I simply do too much! I think this is in part due to the fact that I am not 5" 8' and I dont weigh 9 stone....im 6ft and weigh 11 stone 10....so more mass = more stress on body = more likely to break something if I go at it hammer and tongs! Plus I am not a pro...so I dont get all the maintenance things to help keep injuries at bay!
So, in a nutshell.....train hard, and you will get faster etc...but how fast depends on your genetics, body type, and this is all different for everyone.
...did any of that make sense?
Another point. Although the conventional wisdom is that older runners are better at endurance events that won't apply to everybody. If, even at a late stage - 50 perhaps even 60 plus - your genetics point to you being more of a Linford Christie than a Paul Tergat then perhaps you better start doing those sprint drills and upper body conditioning.
I've only been running a couple of years and I'm 54 - but I know that with the right training I am more likely to reach 80% age-grading for the 100 metres, than I am to reach a 70% for a marathon.
So finding the right distance for oneself is certainly all part of the fun.
I use the word 'fun' advisedly.
My bet is that they where all accomplished runners ealier in life.
I have read articles about how people find that sudden burst of energy when they see the end!! Another interesting debate, certainly indicates that at that point it is more of a mental restriction as opposed to physical energy depletion.
I acknowledge that we will always have an exception to the rule, like the 65year old that ran the 2.40 marathon.
If they had a magic test then I think I would want to know. I run for differing reasons and only one of them is the time I may achieve!! I have enjoyed my training so much that to a degree the actual marathon is irrelevant…or is it, as I think I would be gutted to miss it, but that wouldn’t stop me running!!
I think I would still run regardless of any such test, and as I am running then I would want to measure my performance and strive to improve upon it. It gives me a reason to push harder when I do feel that bit of pain and my legs say STOP!
I therefore think its quite natural to try and find out exactly what type of training will leverage the most beneficial and faster paced performance!! If scientific evidence suggested that only hill reps will give you speed, then I would do them. I would still go out on a few long runs, but I would focus on the hill reps as I, at this moment want to increase my speed. It would have been good to ask the 65 year old, what he would do?
I think its good to think positive, but that alone wont get you a good time!!
Little Lizard, I think your odds on favourite (based on your five races) to get a PB so long as nothing goes wrong in the race, eg, trip, feel ill etc.
Good luck in London & Abingdon!!
Jason, I don’t think I am dead, but I could shed a few extra pounds, saying that I have lost 2 stone and noticed an increase in speed. I wonder if I would have just seen that increase with weight loss alone and minimal training!!
Nick, It makes perfect sense, but I am asking if you can become a fast runner, eg sub 3 hour marathon runner with just hard work alone or particular training regime or if its just genetics and it’s a pipe dream for me!!
Are good times based on the length of time running when you get to a certain age?
Having only started running at 37, I rather like that theory
However, I have read Noakes theory - it's not just the number of good marathons but the number of good miles in total - and I tend to agree that the body can cope with so much intensive training before things start to break down. Not everything, but some things (in my case my hamstrings!)
I only started running last year to get fit for FLM, and I'm loving it and aiming for sub-3hr marathon in just under 3 weeks' time (eek!) However I'm also itching to get back on my bike and I can imagine a long term exercise regime involving cycling/running in the summer and running in the winter (I'm a fair weather cyclist but happy to run in just about anything!). I've not cycled competitively since I was a teenager (I'm 34) but I can well imagine continuing to race in running events. I'd hope that keeping a well-tuned cardiovascular system all year round without constant pounding of running muscles would help give me continuous improvements in my running form year-on-year. Any thoughts?