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would you pay for it ?!
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no that not what i'm taking about, you mucky thinkers !!
There have been many many messages on this web forum about visiting indie running stores just for their knowledge and service of gait analysis; to then go away without a purchase and shop online. These indie stores don't 'over charge' they sell at RRP, it's just that the e-com sites slash prices because of lower over heads.
So how about if the people who do want to get the knowledge and 'run' (sorry) to online were to pay for it. How about running stores charge a fee for the service. How much would you be willing to pay, to know what action your foot has ?
what if this fee was paid inadvance of the service, but then deducted from the shoe purchase.
I'll declare my position first. yes I work in a running store, we have invested well over £1,500 in our analysis system and training our staff, yes our store suffers every week from said characters and yes it is a serious concern.
so how much would you pay for the info to then go and shop online?
thanks for info
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Comments
Hi Jethro,
Yes, I can understand that this is a real concern for the specialist running shop.I think that part of the problem might be that it is morelikely to be newbie runners who need to take advantage of this service, and they're the ones who might not realise the value of it. Might these peeps be put off by a potential charge and continue to take their custom elsewhere?
My son, who is 22, has just started running and, having been told to make sure he got 'proper' shoes, still went and bought something off the shelf at JJB. He's now getting some problems and we're not sure whether it is 'too much, too soon' or whether the shoes are involved. I'd gladly pay for our local specialist shop to have a look at his gait and see if his current shoes are suitable - cos if they are, he won't spend out to change them. How much? Not sure, really. Maybe £20 to be redeemed on next purchase?
Hi there,
First I'd like to say that when the subject comes up here I have always maintained that I think it's pretty unacceptable to go into a shop, get lots of advice, get gait analysis, try on lots of shoes and have you guys running around one box after the next... and then walk off to buy online. It actually makes me pretty angry when people do that because where would we be without your expertise.
Personally I would be quite happy to pay £20-30 for an advice session which would involve video gait analysis and footscan.
To have the potential to redeem the cost on an immediate or subsequent purchase would be a nice touch.
I would try shoes in a shop and buy them there but subsequent pairs I would be happy to buy on line with no guilt. I certainly wouldn't steal the advice and then shop online.
I think if a shop is going to "sell" advice you would have to be a bit better qualified than a manufacturer's training course. I would expect to see a proper qualification authorised by a suitable professional or medical body. I have had poor advice freom an independent shop that led to shin splints-the difference being that the shop was happy to refund the cost of the shoes when the problem became apparent. Try getting your money back from Sport Direct!
I when I started running I went to a shop, had the help of the assistant (although no gait analysis), and then bought shoes from them.
Subsequently, I bought the same shoes (and subsequent evolutions) on line for substantially less over the next few years.
I'm no longer sure that they are the right shoe, so I'll be going to a shop for some help. If they recommend a shoe and I decide I want to buy it, I'll buy it from them the first time, then on line after.
I wouldn't be happy paying up front for the analysis - even if it were redeemable against a purchase. What if you didn't like any of the shoes being suggested?
I would be prepared to pay £15-£20 provided the shop had a good range of shoes to choose from afterwards, which my local one doesn't really have. So you can't totally blame me for shopping online.
What I would like to see is maybe some kind of partnership between running shops (with the analysis and helpfulness) and the online stores (with more and cheaper shoes) but I can't really think how it might work at the moment.
I think Mr Puffy and Muddy Trainers both have a point. Once you start actually charging a fee, then the service provided needs to meet certain quality criteria. I also wonder if the shop would be more open to someone taking legal action, in the event of a problem, if they had paid for the service?
Absolutely agree, though, that it's unreasonable to take advantage of the shop's service and then buy on-line.
I make a point of buying kit at the local running shop
In fact I am about to go there in 15 minutes to pick up a new pair of Nimbus 10 which got delivered a couple of hours ago. I know that I will be paying £20 more than at Sporst Soccer or online, but the service to me is worth it as the shop owner knows what he is talking about, and over the last 4 years I have benefited from his advice in other areas such as racing shoes, energy products, garmin.
Also I can have a good old natter about running there, and lets face it, we all love a bit of a chin wag about the sport. He knows all the local stars, what races they're going for, what they're doing for training at the moment.
Oh, and he organised an inflatable arch for the end of my race in March, gave every entrant (all 1800 of them) a discount voucher in their race details pack (which has apparently proved a little too popular for his profit margins, but has done wonders for cash flow!!) and he also set up shop and discounted items at the finish area on the day.
great responses guys/gals, thanks
Interesting to see the comments. I agree about there should be an industry standard about the advice/diagnoses given. It has always puzzled me that just because somebody can run a a 4 minute mile doens't automacialy quailify them in lower limb biomechanics and understand correct foot action. Although their knowldge is excellent on training sessions and loacal races scene.
Slugsta, your early comment about newbies being the possible main cause of this current issue, is interesting, as we are finding its the newbies are not the issue. Its the wise old owls who know about the adverts in RW Run Fit and AW who are coming in the store with copies of the adverts in thier pockets, and then bringing them out at the end of the 'advice session'
one other thing to consider is a "loyalty club" system that my local tri shop operates
I can choose to join their cycle or running club - which are both affiliated with the recognised bodies - for about £25 per annum which gives me 10% discount on ALL purchases - on a bike that is some big saving, on a pair of shoes less so but it means they will still get my business and I won't buy on line.......and I get entry discount on races
win/win for shop and buyer
doesnt it depend on how big the range is as well? not all of the smaller stores stock as wide a range as some of the online dealers ..what if you end up being tied into a particular brand because thats what they recommend/stock/sell rather than be recommended a range of different brands of shoe that they may not have in stock or have a dealership for ?
i would probably go and get advice and be happy to pay for it if it was frpm properly qualified and impartial staff and not just someone who has spent a day on a manufacturers course
i appreciate your comments about the range of stock in stores. But not even the biggest store in the UK can stock all shoes from all compaines.
But it's not the selling of shoes that is in question. Many people aren't intending on buying regardless of how many options or feel & fit, but they are just taking the knowledge.
Perfect example is one recently, a gentleman travelled over 45 minutes to get to us had previous foot problems whilst using online shoes. We gave all our attenion for almost 1 hour. Had three choices of shoe, all three in correct size fit. choose the most expensive one on fit and feel (only £5 difference). But left and said "I'll go and look online for price now"
my local store owner won't wear timewasters and makes his feeling plain to them
how are you FB hope all is good.
been to OWS at datchet yet?
I believe Up and Running already charge for gait analysis if you don't buy shoes at the time (at least in Manchester if nowhere else). This is then redeemable against any future purchase in the store.
I agree that to do that, they have to be of a certain standard, but I found the advice great.
I was not told of the price before I bought, so don't know if I bought the cheapest or most expensive, I just went by what felt right. I was also given use of their second treadmill to test similar shoes once they knew what would correct my gait. I spent probably 30 - 45 minutes trying shoes out, and would think its only fair that they get some income from this, especially if someone was hogging the treadmill with the video who didn't intend to buy from the shop, while there were others unable to get theirs done who would be only too happy to buy from them.
Smaller businesses are often less able to absorb costs/overheads, so naturally I would expect them to charge more, but I don't feel its right or fair to do them out of some hard earned cash if they've provided a quality service.
I would agree with several of the points above:
1) It is unethical to get a gait analysis or other significant help from a store when you have no intention of buying from them.
2) I would be prepared to pay £20, redeamable against future purchases, in order to get good quality advice from a store - providing that the advice is independant and of good quality. I have had bad advice in the past from a proper running shop that leaves me a little wary of this, and they wouldn't tke the shoes back.
Having said that I can really see why people go online for subsequant pairs of the same shoes, I do it myself. I paid £115 for a pair of A/W Asics Kayanos from the store who gave me a gait analysis and great advice however I have just come to replace them and was able to get 2 pairs for £130 online. How can the price difference be so large? OK they were a current model at the time I bought them in store and now they are last seasons shoes but still half price?
Richard - well, last season's model + significantly lower operating costs could easily make that sort of difference, I would have thought.
Interesting that Jethro says newbies aren't the problem.
I get 10% off at my local store, plus advice, support and a snog. Show me the on-line store that can match that!!
edited typo
a) overheads - online retailers can survive lower profit margins as they don't have the overheads of a shop.
b) last seasons stock - always sells for less as retailers will take lower margins to get rid of it and they also buy left over stock from maunfacturers/distributors more cheaply.
I understand all that but half price? Half!
Interesting that the manufacturers offer end-of-line stock to the chains first though, I didn't know that.
Thinking about the shoe advice thing what is really needed is some kind of brand-neutral industry qualification to give advice.
Greaves Sports in Glasgow charges £20 for a gait analysis session but will refund that cost from the price of the trainers if you do decide to buy. It seems to work fairly well for them. Any time i've been in there's always someone on the treadmill and they actually take bookings now for the service as they are so busy.
I went for a gait analysis a couple of weeks ago (not in Greaves) and ended up not buying new shoes. I've been getting pretty bad shin splints and thought that I had been sold the wrong shoes the last time a bought a pair. To cut a long story short I picked up a pair of Asics 1120 (mild support) from JJB and ran over 600 miles problem free in them. I then went to a specialist shop and was told that i'm a neutral runner and bought a pair of Nike Air Vomero 2+. I've only done about 200 miles in them but am starting to get some problems.
I went for a gait analysis a couple of weeks ago convinced I would be told that I needed support shoes (and fully prepared to buy a new pair) but was shocked to be told that i'm the most neutral runner the assistant has seen for ages and if it was my first pair of shoes he'd recomend the Vomeros!!!
I actually felt pretty guilty for not buying shoes and ended up picking up a couple of pairs of socks so the assistand at least got a sale.
I bought my last pair from a running shop in Chelmsford also offering free gait analysis with any shoe purchase which I think is a totally fair system - after all it took a good 45 minutes of their time.
Without doubt the expertise is invaluable as the Saucony Pro Grid Omni's I bought are just fantastic.
The only time I've had a problem with running shoes was after thinking I could just buy the next model on-line when the Nike Air Structure Triax changed from version 8 to 9, having got the version 8's also from a specialist running shop. The 9's seemed to have a completely different level of cushioning.
So for me its specialist running stores every time unless buying exactly the same make ,model, and version. Specialists can be more expensive than on-line, but the fitting advice (providing its accurate) is worth it.
great to hear (read !!) all these thoughts.
It seems to be that if the advice was of a qualifed nature and the range of footwear instore was to a certain level then charging for the advice wouldn't be an issue. But most people would still buy the 2nd pair online.
If as the suppliers tell us, the days of them ordering/manufacturing supplus stock are done, it won't be long before the cheap end on line/season shoes being offered to the 'e-com' business dries up.
>> If as the suppliers tell us, the days of them ordering/manufacturing supplus stock are done, it won't be long before the cheap end on line/season shoes being offered to the 'e-com' business dries up.
There will always be the retailers excess stock when the new season models come in but I doubt that that will benefit the retailer much as they had to buy it at full wholesale value in the first place.
At least it will drive footfall back into stores and away from online.
I have to say that the promises of no overstocking seem like the the promises of the paperless office - always just round the corner.
richard R
you're right about it not a possible thing. The ironic tone of my comment doesn't work in type!!
Its not going to stop, it will just keep coming
I have just updated my shoes - I've been in Saucony Grid Omni 4s for years - bought first pair from a specialist shop and subsequently online. Main reasons for doing this :
a ) had lots of problems with tendonitis and didn't with Omni 4s - really worried that if I changed shoe it would come back. I think this is the main reason for my stubborn brand loyalty.
b ) I'm too poor to make expensive mistakes - its a bonus that the online price is cheaper, but for me it was more the need to replicate shoes I knew and trusted and that suited my type of running and I would have paid more to keep buying them. I can't afford to buy expensive shoes at over £60 a pop that subsquently cause problems.
Anyway, I had to finally admit that Omni 4s are no longer available and went to local Up and Running for advice. Got free gait analysis and a pair of new trail shoes BUT I only had a choice of three different shoes in my size - so not much choice at all really especially as one was a fell running shoe - and even now I've got a shoe which is half a size bigger than normal. Now is that because it fits better or because the shop doesn't stock half sizes and they didn't want to lose the sale ?
The best advice I ever got was from Keep on Running in Sheffield - they refused to sell me a shoe - I liked it because it looked good, but they knew it didn't fit me and refused to let me buy it. I bet that wouldn't happen in JJBs !