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Is Michael Jackson - dead!!!!
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I see where you are coming from, Bos1.
I don't know whether Jackson was an abuser or not - I'm inclined to think not, actually (he always seemed somehow non-sexual, regardless of all that onstage crotch-grabbing) although clearly there are grounds for concern about his behaviour - but either way I find it very hard to see any humour in the subject of child abuse. It's nothing to do with being "PC" or otherwise - some things just aren't funny.
I only speak for myself, of course. Obviously some people find these jokes hilarious.
I don't find child abuse funny. I find jokes funny.
Simple as that. Jokes can be funny regardless of the subject in my opinion. I'm not sure it will affect my ability to be a Father though!
Bos, I'm sorry you've have had the experiences you have. I don't find that funny.
I hope not. As long as you fit, be active, get everything checked and most of all, enjoy yourself, you have many, many years ahead of you.
By reading through some posts, there seem to be two camps. Those who have a view that he done something which is unacceptable to many people. The other that he was a music legend.
By hearing on the radio at work, it seems that he will be remembered for his music.
I`m totally against child abuse full stop. In my opinion, they should bring back hanging for this offence. However, whatever happen regarding Michael Jackson and his case. The matter was he got found out and tried in a court of law. The end result clear his name. But his image was damaged because of that and he nevered recovered. But the irony is that Michael Jackson will always be remembered for his music rather than anything else.
runnerman, MJ was not 'cleared in a court of law', he paid a very large sum of money to prevent it getting to that stage.
As to the black humour - there are peeps who find it funny and those who don't, you're never going to change anyone's opinion on that by name-calling any more than by logical debate!
coops, kk
Jokes have to have a context. the "baby brain" thread is a really nice thread with parents recounting nice memories of their childrn. Would a Michael Jackson joke on that thread be funny? I dont think so and I dont think many people would.
I dont think it is fair to put roborunners into the 'holier than thou' bin. He has said something more strongly than I would but I dont think it should be dismissed as simply a humour failure.
I understand there will often be a joke thread when someone famous dies with this kind of history. It is part of how people deal with it and process it. However, I think the subject of molestation makes it less funny, I think the circumstances in which jackson was not convicted also makes jokes problematical.
I would like to think that most people would put the MJ joke thread is in the "I shouldnt laugh but it's a funny joke category". I think that does acknowledge that the subject is sensitive. I believe there are people who just find it an inappropriate subject - I dont think this view can be simply rejected as "PC/moral highground/humour failure".
Coops, I wasnt trying having a go at you - different experiences will lead us to react differently to stuff.
I need a beer.
Bos 1 well said.
Slugsta well said
I didn't visit the 'joke' thread because I don't read The Sun and I'd find the same level of entertainment there....... but I have no objection to Sun readers. I'd drift away if they started recounting Sun stories or showing me pics though......
Btw is The Sun still around?
Bos 1 - any joke or comment of that sort on that thread would be entirely out of context
Child molestation is not funny - far from it - why can't you understand that 99% of Jacko jokes are in asolute recognition of this?
My heart goes out to any one who has been a victim of abuse of any kind and my absolute and total condemnation to those that knowingly carry out or contribute to abuse
bos1 - nicely put, and all of your comments I can agree with. Your point about the category being "I shouldn't laugh but it is funny" is what makes jokes for me. I like them to be controversial, it makes them funnier. It's just how I am.
As for Robborunner - if he was as eloquent as you were in your rationale, I'm sure he wouldn't be getting the grief he has been. His first comments on the matter were to call everyone sick f*ckers and to call me a twat! Then flounced backwards and forwards like D2D's love child.
What is in your view, the best song Michael Jackson ever made?
My favourite is the one with Paul McCartney - the girl is mine. I don`t know why its my favourite but when I look at a laydee, that song is in my head. Just to thread it further. Did McCartney did a duo with Stevie Wonder?
Ebony and Ivory Car Servicing maybe?? In this age of equality and all that...
Would you spend the night with him? That was your question, to the dude abides, who is quite clearly an adult, as they have marathon pb's. So how doe's me saying he/she would be safe (from having to sleep with Jacko) unless he comes back from the dead equate to joking about child molestation?
You had a bad childhood, you have my sympathy, i'm a dad, all the cliches are true.
But now anyone who came to the thread late will think i'm a sick pervert, thanks. It's exactly because of people like you why they don't bring back the death penalty.
I dont assume that people know or should now my life history. I referred to something that happened to"a child". You are assuming you can identify that child. Based on what has been said on this thread you can't.
The point of my post to Dude was that I was replying to a comment that "nobody knows" and I made the rather obvious point that if there is a crime there is a victim and the victim knows. You then stepped in to make a smart ass comment. Any discussion about pedophlia here has been whether Jackson is a perpetrator not about the victim. Based on your posts here I do think you can consider the victims. If you had understand the point of my post I believe you wouldnt have made your post which has the effect of trivialising an important issue.
Clearly there are many jokes about molestion on this forum. Are you seriously claiming to be slandered because somebody is asking if you are making a joke? I suggest you dont try to play the victim.
Lardare,s you yourself posed the question of whther it is odd for an adult to sleep with children. I wpuld guess you expect an adult response to that. If somebody replied in a juvenile way I think you would believe that that person thought your point was unimportant or worng. There is a joke thread and there is this thread. More serious topics got discussed here. You made a valid and good point - which made your reply to my post more surprising to me. Yes, I know this is the internet and glib comments get made all the time but the thread was clearly on a serious tack.
So what if you are a dad? Do you think that your posts here give any indication that you would be supportive and sympathetic to your children if something bad happened? As far as I can see your reaction would to find somebody to blame, not to think what you can do to heal. You may think that is harsh but have a look at your posts. You want to blame Jacko, but you walk right past the part of my post which talks about the victims.
Nobody here would think that you are a sick pervert. Please dont to wrap the cloak of victimhood around youself. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Try feeling sorry for Jacko's victims.
You dont know my view about the death penalty but hey, feel free to think you know.
I dont think you are a bad person. You happened to make a reply on an issue I feel strongly about. I would have liked to have heard a reply from Dude because he does make thoughtful and considered posts on a number of issues. The fact that an intelligent person should hold the opinion he does despite the facts available disappoints me. But that's the internet, we cant always get what we want.
Graham, I am a bit sorry that I stepped into this. I came in from a particular direction which I understand that people dont necessarily get.
I understand that people make jokes about Jacko. I have never approached this from the point of saying that jokes are wrong. And noone can possibly think that molestation is a laughing matter.
However, In the particular case of Jackson one thing that is problematical is that there is a qestion of what is and what is not child molestation. Clearly child molestation is wrong but is what Jackson did molestation? Many poster here consider that MJ is not guilty. The fact that people make jokes about it doesnt make Jacko more guilty. However it might create the impression for victims of abuse that a) what happened to them is not abuse or, b) that it is not worth them making a complaint because they wont get justice.
The other point on the joke thing was some posters say that that jokes are intrinsically funny irrespective of the subject matter. My view is that this is not so. Clearly Jacko jokes on baby brain thread would be inappropriate. I would consider that part of the reason for this is because the children on that thread are real children who we can associate them with real living people.. There are no real children in the jokes - there are just props to help set up the punchline. But the problem is that they are real people in real life. And they are real people who may not have got justice. If you knew them personnally I dont think you would make the jokes.
I am not saying that everyone in the whole world necessarily personalise the victims when telling jokes. But there are many people who will do that when hearing the jokes. It doesnt make them "better" people, it doesnt mean they aspire to a moral highground. It does mean the viewpoint will be different and the jokes may not be as funny.
Lararse,
I have reread my last post to you and I think I probably stepped on you harder than you deserve. We're just two people who tripped over each other on a thread. The views I express I genuinely hold, but some of them should be attributed to the wider society rather than just hung around your neck.