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Fair enough Phil, one might be possible for some.
Trying to apply it to myself, running my reps 22% faster than 10K race pace would mean needing to run 6 x 1K in 2:37s. I can absolutely guarantee that I am not capable of a single 1K in 2:37. That's almost Dean's 800m race pace.
In fact, just to underline it, 2:37 per K is the 3000m pace of the people who are about 70th on the UK all time list. People like Matthew Yates and Tom Mayo.
EDIT: If you applied it to Mo Farah, it would require him going through the 800m point of each rep in a world record 1:39. I realise you can't really apply these things to elite training anyway, but I had my calculator out and needed the diversion.
Just off to do 6 x 1k at my 1k race pace. Is 5 days ok for the rest period between intervals?
Well raced Philip, sounds like you played it perfect and must have been good to see the hares come back to you and pad past.
Go on max, give it a go...you never know
I think goaters book is making a good point badly. He is saying drop the volume & increase the pace above what you are used to and you will get faster. That's basically what we all do when doing 400m or 200m sessions.
Dean - I will if you do same session at pro rata paces as calculated by Dach! As ever the session should have a Bus theme name be called the Retch
watched one of my coaching group last night 'do the Retch'. the session was 1 mile @ threshold (400m recovery) + 6x 800m (200m recovery). Hs path was set when he went through his threshold mile in 5.45.... he's a 40min 10k'er. Running each 800m 15 secs too fast ensured the technicoloured yawn made an appearance.
Some people just won't be told
Max - The Retch could probably also be called The Bus to be honest. Shame it's taken.
some of us simply don't have the ability to enter such a hurt locker!
chap at my old club ended in an ambulance/hospital at least 3 times in his sub 3hour marathon pursuit
In the spirit of equal opportunities I'd like to point out that some people manage to end up in ambulances even without any particular pain tolerance...
Do elaborate Lit?
Philip -600ftfor Windsor is a fair old whack of climbing ina half - Marlow Half is around 1000. I can' believe VLM is 1000m!!That is the height of Snowdon,or 3 x theclimbing in the Marlow Half!
Glad to here about the retchin
VLM is the same elevation as Marlow half? Double the distance obviously, but I thought it was flat!?
Chap I knew through a pal died today at 43...spent the.last 15-18months in and out of hospital.
You think of that, and then you think of us all in good health and being able to piss about fretting about mile splits not coming out as fast as we'd like....
Bus - not an actual ambulance, just a marshall's car, was exaggerating to make myself sound more interesting. They did get me an amazing chair-shaped stretcher though so I didn't have to lie down. Details on p. 68 of Skinny's thread.
Car shaped stretcher? You sure it wasn't a toddler's bed?
SG - that does put things into context. Sadly, it could happen at any time to any one of us. I remember going past someone being treated just before the end of the Maidenhead easter 10 a few years ago and flown off in the air ambulance. It turned out the guy was just a new V40 like me, but fitter and faster than me and well known on the local running scene. He died shortly after, leaving a wife and three kids. Apparently an underlying heart problem, which his fitness had hidden. Unfortunately I know too many people of a similar age being struck down with cancer too. Just means we should take our opportunities while we can and only regret we don't do and not what we do...
Anyway, that VLM height Phil mentioned (Garmin error - must be!) wasn't the same as Marlow - at over 1000m, that is THREE times marlow!
Lit - will try and find Skinny's thread!
Oh, sorry - here you go.
I did Maidenhead that year, and he was a decent enough runner to have been down for a few mins, before we even arrived at the finish.
It's a sobering thing SG & Bus.
Onwards and upwards, 2x20min tempo intervals tonight was a great confidence booster.
Warmup from meeting point to pub, then 20 mins out (5km pace was the guidline, no thanks). 2 mins rest unless you get to Winnersh roundabout first in which case stop and enjoy longer RI. Then 20 mins return arriving back at the start point all together.
Outbound was 4:07/km despite aiming for 4:15 and trying to keep a lid on things. Could have gone a lot faster. Outbound is downhill (#35m loss).
Return was 4:17/km with the same aim.
4:17 is kind of HM target pace. Some work to do yet, but good to know that I haven't lost as much fitness as I thought, and it is just a case of getting used to the hurt again. Achilles feels OK but tomorrow will be the acid test. 4km recovery jog first thing.
Indeed SG. Not something I want to see at any other races I do that's for sure.
It's OK Lit - found it! Sounds pretty dramatic - hope you are OK now?
My first thought was did you eat sufficiently in the 24 hours before? Second thought was possibly a CO2 build up in the bloodstream, which can happen when running really hard and cause disorientation and light headedness - that's what sometime sgive tingling fingers and toes immediately after a race.
Bus - yes, ate exactly what I normally do before a race. Second idea sounds more plausible, though I don't suppose they can test for that now. I still feel a bit rubbish though, so may turn out just to be a virus.
I wondered why we hadn't heard of a storming PB Lit.
It could have been a lot worse. Get yourself checked out again if need be, better to be safe than sorry.
I was so ready for a PB too - the last one was Tunbridge Wells in Feb and that's got a gigantic hill in it. But have been to the doctor and am getting an ECG and blood tests later this week.
Yes, CO2 would be impossible to check now. Virus is highly likely though given how many lergies there are around at the moment! I've been pretty wheezy myself today with a bit of a cough (but that might just be taperitis!)
Nice, just about to set off for a 16 miler to work and it is chucking it down!
You had to gazump my 10 due at 7am didn't you Bus
Not helped by being woken up by furious levels of rain at about 3/4am.
16 miles BEFORE work? and in the rain? blimey! If that doesn't toughen you up mentally for a marathon, nothing will! nice work Bus.
In comparison, how was you 'meander' SG
Lit - sorry to hear your race didn't quite end how you planned. Same thing happened to by brother in the Maidenhead Half a couple of years ago. Being the concerned brother I am, I bought him a mug with his race picture on it about a minute before he passed out. he looks like a smurf he was so blue
iron - agree those long tempos build confidence as well as your speed endurance. 5km pace would make it a ridiculously tough session though! why would you want to 'race' 2x 5k sessions in training??
3x 20mins threshold for me last night. 3.56 miles in each 20 min rep and exactly 5.28m/m pace for each. happy with that so soon after Sunday's 23 miler.
track tuesday last night was hard going. a strong wind that seem to be in your face for most of the track & a like a wind tunnel on the final straight.
session was 8*1200 target 3.54 off 3 min rec. only managed 3.58 ave but battled the wind and the effort felt very hard so im sure without the wind i was on target. also have to factor in i raced on sat, 12hilly miles on sunday plus another 6m easy on monday.
Waiting for the rain to settle. Am at home for a few days so was going to see if Bus or SG fancy one but today is off as I want an easy 5 outthe rain. What about tomorrow? I need to do early am or after say 3 pm.
I'm off to the doc soon for an old man's check. Need to make sur he does the checks good and proper and does not say "you run, next!"
pmj - i had my 40yr check up last week. apparently im too active and need to reduce training. i mentioned that i do about half the weekly miles as Johnas but that didnt seem to matter. the doc was quite decent about it saying for an average 40yr old im doing too much exercise but its better to be over than under exercise.
Best practice the cough then PMJ....
In Aylesbury all day tomorrow unfortunately.
16 this morning in the rain turned out to be 15.3 in the dry . Rain stopped as I opened the door, and started just after I went into Wetherspoons for my fried brekkie!
Average pace was 7:04, with a 4.5 block of the last 5.3 in sub MP target pace. Pleased with the overall pace, as 5M of that was up the never ending incline of the Chiltern scarp up to Whiteleaf Cross. Not ideal prep for being quizzed by our auditors this morning, but needs must and its out the way now! Probably nothing much over 10 now until Abo.
Dean - I bet you didn't tell him how fast you do that exercise . How can it be too much anyway??
told you do too much exercise for a 40year old? Geez Dean, you don't do near what a lot of runners do!
Johnas, repeated 5.28 pace for 3.5mile spells in training is a heck of a place to be, and I would have thought you'd be a sandbagger extradordinare to try and play down your mid to late 33:xx 10k hopes!
Phil, you pick badly don't you. I'm on rest until Friday now, and Bus has just cranked a 16 out!
To answer Johnas' question, pace wise it looks nice on paper, 6.58, but could certainly feel a bit of pelvis weakness from yesterday! However, best part of 2 days rest before my first 5mile MP session for a while.
Question with that is lunch on the road for efficient use of time, or in the evening round my favourite 0.9mile loop which always feels easier
Dean, did you tell him that you're a national champion?