Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • IronCat5 - sorry to butt in - but I noticed you have similar problem to me with shoes:  high backs annoy your achilles tendons.  What have you found other than the skechers that works?  I've had to ditch kinvaras (old favourites - I got through 4 pairs of kinvara 2); asics hyperspeed are OK unless the tendons are particularly antsy that day; skechers are the only ones really low enough.  Oh, and what are the Mg tablets for?

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Good news Ric!

    Promising too from IC.

    Track session last night.  Session was 6 x 5 minutes with 2 minute recoveries.  Supposed to be at threshold pace, but as someone who is fairly used to 30 minutes continuous threshold runs, that was a little on the straightforward side, so did it at approximate 10K pace - average 5:17 mm.  Tough but not completely exhausting.

     

     

  • Glad to hear that Ric; hope the scans are helpful.

    Marrows - I have some Brooks Pure Connect and they seem a bit lower at the back of the heel than the Kinvaras.

  • Marrows, I ran for years up to Mara distance in ASICS GT-2160 & 2170. I had problems (not achilles) with GT-1000 & GT-2000 which are their replacements. I then used the Brooks Adrenaline. I've also run in ASICS Noosa too.

    I will say that the high heel tabs are not the root cause but a contributory factor, along with some funny ankle socks that have a padded pull thingy at the same point as the achilles and heel tab.

    The Skechers GoRunRide3's have a low hell-toe drop, so I use the insoles they come with to lift the foot. Plus at the moment have some heel risers inside too, to relieve stress on the achilles. They do have an almost straight back to them though, not the high cut-out are you see on the ASICS.

    I'm taking the magnesium in a vague wives'-tale attempt to loosen tight muscles.

    Sounds like one of those club 'fits all sizes' track session Dachs.

     

  • in the Marlow days I quite liked that you'd turn up at a club "session" not having aclue what was coming up.

    Whether it was the classic sprint to the lamp post and jog back, or round a certain loop etc. All good fun.

    I remember it being less fun turning up occasionally at Handy Cross's sessions and hearing what was coming up. "Heck" was normally the first thought.

  • ric - glad you are on the mend

    Dachs - fast session.  i think i have a similar session coming up next week, it wont be at that pace though.  about 10secs slower.

    i have a classic 10*400 tonight.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    To be honest, more often than not I find myself doing my own sessions at the track, particularly having seen how a carefully planned build-up to a target race can pay dividends.  However, when I'm between schedules, I will go along, hear what the planned session is, and then see if I want to join in.  It's more sociable to join in, though I do tend to lack people running at the same pace some weeks.

  • That's fast Dachs! Fairly standard for a man of your calibre I guess...

    Monday's puncture has proven pricey (though not on a par with your rims Iron!!). Turns out the sidewall of the tyre was left with a big hole so I'll need a new one - shame, as it was an almost new kevlar job but no one seems to have it in stock at the moment. Shame, as I was hoping to get out on the bike later while its dry....

    Easy run scheduled for later today to keep the legs turning over, then rest tomorrow, 3-4 miles Saturday, race Sunday.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Cabbage Patch 10 entered.  Anyone else?  SG, it could be a good one for you to do given your feeling that your top end pace is limited but at less optimal paces you seem to be in good shape.

  • Hoping to (if everything holds out!).

    Just realised that Maidenhead Half is no longer on Po10 image

    On the plus side, ARC rankings and athlete performances are now compiled on a website:

    http://www.topsinathletics.info/default.asp?page=home

    Does make a nonsense of any UK rankings though unless the two are combined!

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Last time I looked at Tops in Athletics it was even less complete than Po10 (they had about a quarter of the races I had on Po10, and some of the times they had for people were completely incorrect - like 35 minute 10Ks listed at 33 minutes, etc.

     

    Maybe it's better now.

  • Dachs, no plans to do any proper races for the forseeable to be honest.

    Feel in pure limbo at the moment, pleased i can comfortably rack up 60mile weeks repeatedly, but aware that 6miles MP is the hardest session i've done in 3months, plus that parkrun.

    Hopefully the tightness will fade, Moraghan will re-appear after his epic tour, and we can get cracking again. However, i am aware after a 3month period without contact it might be considered the natural end.  Finges crossed.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Oh.  In which case the thread will have to be renamed "Making it up as you go along training - Stevie G".

  • Stevie - Moraghan's absence aside, are you not asking yourself why you would be putting yourself through 60 mile weeks if it is not training for races? 

  • The Bus wrote (see)

    Stevie - Moraghan's absence aside, are you not asking yourself why you would be putting yourself through 60 mile weeks if it is not training for races? 

    image

    I don't appear to be in the Tops thing. Oh well.

    Bus, you should carry a bit of old toothpaste tub, or an empty gel wrapper. That would have covered the hole in the tyre from the inside. It's a good get you home.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the comments guys.

    I thought of you Dean as I ramped the speed up on my last run. An unusual feeling of asking for more and getting it, and more.

    SG, time to let the coach go. You've learned all you need to know to the point where you're more teacher than pupil.

    For what its worth, you know more about this running business than 99% of the rest. 

    To take direct instruction from one of your peers now is almost ludicrous.

    Kick on. You know what to do. Believe as the Haddad would say.

  • Beliefe surely image

    Good tip for the future Iron - only problem on Monday evening was I didn't find the hole (until today in the comfort of my kitchen in daylight when the inner tube was at a high enough pressure to be sticking through it! ). If you are not on Tops, just means you haven't run an ARC race - the whole ARC v UKA ranking thing is plain daft!

  • Ric, glad things are a bit more positive. Same to IC with the achilles problem.

    SG, 60 mile weeks, sessions are not, I would say you need (deserve!) to do some races. Remember I did my 35:50 10K PB solely off 8 weeks of 65 miles and no sessions. Pure endurance. I bet you could still rattle out a savage HM. Plus the XC season looms, they are pure races and will liberate you of times and splits.

    Dach, nice session. I love timed sessions and 5min sessions are always a good hard (but comfortable) session.

    Today we did a grass tempo of 6mins, 3 x 4min, 6min. Felt great after feeling ropey all week after the 10K Sunday. My main aim this week is to rack up a good long run. I looked back and I have gone over 12 miles for 3 months! Lazy bas***d!

  • SG - massively agree with SS there, with the recent 6 at 6m/m in the bank I think you could run to a 80min HM / or quicker at least and get that racing mojo back.. The steady miles will have benefited



    I think (although not the best idea) me using it as a hard training run gave me some confidence into a new phase of training getting over my injury which seems to be much better. And sorry IC with news of the Achilles! Really try the calf stretch topped with ankle rotations + single leg squats, really helped



    Dachs that's a good session all nicely inside 33:00 10km pace



    I have agree with Bus about the mileage / coaching talk.. It's good for fitness and impressive commitment but perhaps churning out the miles has blinded some smaller and longer aims surrounding races and you've got stuck in this rut of unsureness. I agree with some downtime and don't think you'd become lazy but a change of training period I think would be in order or perhaps a small race? Victory is next week remember!



    Dean I'm sure with you flying this summer you'll transition fine upto 10kms this winter and produce some quality times



    Can't quite comment on being coached issue with the not knowing the relationship you had with him etc and not knowing history, but you are obviously knowledgable. Lots of people change coaches simply for that change of scenery and guidance way, they know what to do anyway really.....



    Ric - hope all things get better for you very soon.
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • Thanks for the suggestion Lit and the extra info, IronCat 5.  I have a pair of pure connect already and they're borderline too high at the back.  Maybe I'll try heel risers to take a  little strain off and lift me clear of all these annoying heel tabs.  Do you mean this kind of thing IronCat?

    RicF - no idea what your problem is but if you eat more Vit D doesn't that make your blood calcium go up, not down? Hope things get sorted soon.

  • Thanks for the thoughts people, appreciate the ideas from fellow experienced runners who accept why we do what we do!

    Just had some physio, and got me thinking even more. Bizarre mix of good bad and ugly!
    Good – doing the ideal stretching – not much else to do
    Bad - short hamstrings, lifetime task to keep them as loose as possible now.
    Ugly – physio had me do a sitting test, and apparently you should be able to touch the back of your knee to the floor. I get nowhere near...which led her to suggest there’s a chance of arthritis in 20 years!
    Suggested adding a different sport as an alternative.
    Did agree with me that the overdoing the core 3months ago pushed me from fine to locking up. Suggested re-applying core gently this time.

    So all in all, it’s all a bit of an unsettled rut of a time. The “logic” of the 60mile weeks was to build back to the usual structure, and then re-apply the top end stuff when ready. Have now done 1x3m MP, 2x6m MP and 17.24 parkrun. Can’t say i’m too enamoured with the prospect of upping the paces or intensities though.

    Forgive the following stream of consciousness, i’ll get it all out, and you guys can tell me your thoughts,

    Feels a little bit limbo-y. if the coach does come back on board, can I withstand the level of training necessary to PB anyway. Should i just stick with this level of training, or is it time to in a way reign down the “serious” level of training, and go back to the “fun and people” approach of a local club where I’d have the esteem of being one of, if not “the” fast guy, and can re-embrace doing low key races for positions. The downside of this being, would this give up on pb hunting? Has the period of individually targetting fast races miles from home had it’s time?
    However, at the moment doubles would be morning and lunch, so could I get back into the evenings at a running club again? Or would i just do their races. I’m a bit all or nothing, so i don’t know really.

    I suppose all this stuff floating around is why it’s easier to just keep the 60mile weeking ticking. But the problem is you suddenly find yourself 3months down the line!!

    image

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    SG - all important stuff to consider, but to be honest I would not even start to make your mind up until you've actually tried a race, just to see how far away from good form you actually are.  I reckon with a 17:24 parkrun on a not-fast course without having done any speedwork, and a 6 mile MP session at 5:55s or whatever, you are way underestimating what you could do in a race, particularly one at a less intense pace (10m - half marathon).

    Just for a bit of context, I ran 17:29 twice in a row at a faster parkrun shortly before breaking 1:15.

    A serious point though - you need miles and not speedwork for a marathon.  You're coping with the miles. Before you decide to go and be a fun runner, why not actually try a marathon? The big mileage/low intensity approach may well see you smash some shorter PBs anyway.

    That's what I think anyway.  Dean will probably be along in a minute to call you a fanny again.

  • Beachy Head mara? Sufficiently low key.
  • Thanks Dachs, whoops, didn't quite mean to give the impression of fading to a 2-3 times a week casual runner!

    It probably is the perfect chance to do one of those non fast, in fact blimming slow races i did in my early Marlow days, and for the last 3-4years wouldn't have even dreamed about though!

     

  • Marrows, those are exactly the heel inserts I have. I am also investigating Currexsole insoles to solve another foot problem I have.
  • I agree with Dachs, SG, and I also think that (understandably as you're feeling a bit gloomy about the whole thing immediately post-physio) your analysis is a bit all-or-nothing. For example, getting back into the local club scene doesn't necessarily mean giving up on 'proper' training, PB hunting etc. forever, even if not best suited to chasing PBs this year or next (which isn't even certain). And going to evening club sessions would be once or twice a week at most, so it's not either that or morning and lunchtime doubles, but a combination of what works best for you.

  • I agree with Dachs and Lit SG!

    The point now would be to do what YOU feel like doing and not feeling you need to meet your perceived idea of others expectations of you.

    There is absolutely no harm (or shame!) in doing some races (local slow ones, high profile fast-ones or whatever), knowing that they are not going to be your best performances. They should be done to give reason to your training and seen as a measure of the best performance you can do at that point in time under those circumstances.

    That doesn't mean that when things come together better, you can't then re-focus and go for PBs again at some future point. Who knows, a couple of races and you may find the limbo broken anyway.

     

  • Dachs wrote (see)

     

    That's what I think anyway.  Dean will probably be along in a minute to call you a fanny again.

    image isnt that what all the replies have really been saying but just a little more politely. 

    All of us on this thread are just eager amateurs whose ability is closer linked with fat frank from accounts than Mo Farah. 

    Running is meant to be fun.  if its not and you are not chasing the highest honours/money/medals/fame then re-evalute and find some fun.  run trail races, fell races, seb style gladiator races, track races, road races, xc races, local cock and biscuit races or do no races. But find some fun.  Its not always about PBs...i have been grinning like a muppet sinces sundays 3000m race, i think its the slowest i have run that for a long time and miles off a PB but i loved the finish of the race.  It was fun.

    Find Fun

  • @ironcat, I recently purchased a pair of Currexsole insoles as I have been struggling with plantar fasciitis for the past two months and haven't been able to nail down any consistency. They tell you to gently break them in, which I can't say I did and as a result  I started to get pain in my left knee, usually the afternoon/next day after a run with the new insoles (I have never had any problems with the knees). 

    I reverted back to my old trainers and used the trainers with the insoles just for cool downs, light runs and walking about in the house for a good two weeks before slowly integrating them into my proper workouts. I feel good support and the plantar fasciitis pain has definitely subsided, as well as the knee pain. So I would definitely recommend them but just take your time breaking them in.

     

     

  • Glad to hear Dan, and hope your injuries disappear.

    Did you follow the follow their wet footprint to determine what you needed?
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