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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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That's a one-off Phil because of the circumstances. Slightly frustrated that a guy I beat at 3k a few weeks ago ran 17:23 at the parkrun I was going to run at on Saturday. Although I've just remembered that they changed the course due to firework display or something. I wonder if it was short...
Looking good for a sub 5 there SG
I wonder if Po10 will accept that as my new PB... It was accurately measured after all...
Good to see you back CC82, lloks ike you are going well. DEAN - Still a very long way to go for a race though isn't it! My mate who emigrated last year did the 5,000m
Good bit of training there SG - The advice I would give after my race in the summer (probably going to end up my best performance of the year) is to go off faster than you want to and hang on. Seems to be easier to do this in a road mile than a middle distance track race. My 4.31 was certainly faster than I expected, but the tactics seem to work.
So the day after the hill reps I had quite a painful 13/14 miler last Thursday, usual course from the parents - uni - Bmth's ground - boscombe pier - beach - Poole - home. Then a very unconfortable 4.5 hour journey back home. Survived lurking toilet steps in Middlesbrough at the football Saturday, and then nothing on Sunday. Did the full monthy 13 mile commute yesterday and training tonight, hope it's not as bad as last weeks hilly pyramid!
XC season finally starts at Mansfield on Saturday. Better dig out the spikes...
8x1k tonight, annoyingly kicked off with a half decent 3.12 and then had to stop for a pit stop poo. The rest weren't too bad, generally around the 3,12 mark, although the penultimate one was a 3.16. The 100m hill/ incline thing from 600-700 is really killing me. Ugh.
SC, as I got older; certainly around mid 40's, I was finding the line between smashing myself to get faster, and smashing myself and staying smashed, increasingly blurred.
I wonder if there's a mechanism in our physiology which allows us to get faster and stronger under loading until a stage (age related) when it becomes counter productive?
Knowing the cross over position is difficult to spot.
Personally, the deal I've made with myself is deciding whether or not I want to be ambitious and race fit; with all the attendant risks required. Or, able to go for a run at all.
🙂
Interesting Ric. I have been seeing that the last year or so if I have an 'annoying' (at the time) 3/4 days before a race when I would normally train - and I can't for whatever reason...I tend to have a good race.
I'm in a run of 4 Saturday races coming up, so there will be the race on a Saturday, long run Sunday, easy commute Monday, hard training Tuesday. So with an easy day Wednesday it's going to be a bit silly doing a hard session on the Thursday with another race coming up on the Saturday.
The plan will be to treat the Saturday and the Tuesday as the hard sessions and do 'half' a session on Thursday. Trying to be sensible here
SC, sometimes a really big recovery period helps. The other area is where previously good training becomes a strain in the days leading up to the effort.
That's the system lining itself up for a fantastic race effort, It literally holds you back until required.
Charlie Spedding was known for being a relative so so competitor, until it mattered. Even he knew he was so so until it mattered. He didn't mind. As he knew what could happen once he was where it counted.
Dave Moorcroft. One morning he went for a run with a jogger level journalist called Cliff Temple. Moorcroft was so drained and flat he had to stop for a rest. Could barely function.
Later that night he took six seconds off the 5000m world record.
So once I'm coming into a race and my previous training was good, and is now crap. I know what it's about.
🙂
I'd agree - the change seemed to come around 45/46 for me too. Prior to that I could race twice in a week, and do a long run the day after a race at a testing pace and think nothing of it. Nowadays it can take a week to fully recover from even a fairly short race.
I'm not at that stage yet, being 34 but I've found Ric's point about taking big recovery now and again interesting. I think we sometimes get too hung up on making sure we get x number of miles in week in week out etc. I certainly can do sometimes anyway.
We all know that recovery is an important part of training but possibly overlook what recovery really is. I get nowhere near enough sleep for example, but that's kind of just how it has to be right now in my life with a 5 month old baby and a commute etc. I've had a couple of strong performances off the back of enforced time out, which I think is more along the lines of where Ric is coming from. I'm sure I remember you saying you once had a massive PB after about 6 weeks of little or no running!?
Today - I ran 13.1 miles before work @ about 7:30s. Got an all weekend wedding celebration coming up so opportunity for running will be pretty limited. That doesn't exactly tie in with recovering well after running a "PB" 5k yesterday morning...
Good stuff all. We're all different, there's no way I could run a decent race after 6 weeks out! I'd be so crap I'd run wearing footie shorts, not wanting to waste running shorts!
Great story about Moorcroft Ric.
It's about hitting a peak. And to hit a peak you have to be climbing up.
Recovery involves coming down a bit, so racing off the back off just recovery means you're still in the dip.
You hit your fastest races off a kind of run up. Imagine a training program along the lines of a long jumper preparing for a jump. How does he do it?
What he doesn't do is take a 400m run up and then jump. No, it's stop, start, accelerate and then bang! then stop.
So if you want a fast race, first pile in the training volume, then cut the volume and speed it up, then take much more rest, even faster running but much less volume.
It's really about concentrating the energy expended doing a set number of miles per week into around half as much.
As I droned on before, I trained for years, hit a plateau, gave up for a year or so. Started again and surpassed the previous level. That's super compensation in the training cycle.
I'll stick my neck out and state that training effects keep working for 18 months after you actually stop.
Forgot to mention. I noticed on Strava (yes that) that on one my current standard runs, I was holding some position around some lake (@1.5 miles).
It was something like 119th out of 233 involving about a million attempts. Hmm!
So, on with the racers. Basically ran the sector in the middle of a continuous eight mile run. That put me into 4th overall. The fast bit averaged around 6:15 pace which is as fast as I've gone in six months.
HR was @ 167bpm. Don't feel there was scope for many more revs from that quarter.
🙂
Nice one!
Trouble is, that kind of race prepping periodisation is hard to do when you are somewhat obsessive, like a lot of runners. Sometimes your body takes things into its own hands and breaks down just enough to force a break on you - back in the old days, a lot of my best races came after a few weeks of minimal running, or a week of flu or the squits or something!
Anyway.....
Reps today. As I was working at home nowhere near a track, they were classic half milers, off-road, around a rough field with a bit of a slope. I was aiming for 6 at 5.50 pace off 60 sec jog, in 2 sets with 2min between. Got the pace fairly spot on, but the effort of hitting it on the 5th (which just happened to start and finish with the slope) set me into retching mode, so stopped it there and jogged back. 2:54, 2:55, 2:55, 2:56, 2:55.
Easy for me to not over do things. First I'm not an endorphin addict. Give not training for a couple of days and I forget I ever did.
I definitely do not bounce off the walls with pent up nervous energy.
The other aspect is I've trained and raced without limit or restriction for as long as I cared to. It's the same for anything I might want to do.
I think the situation is described as paradoxical. I'm given the chance to do anything I like, and choose not to.
Easy in my house. No one seems to want or do anything.
🙂
Great time trial there CC, can see you getting well under that in a race setting. Hard work paying off! Is there a proper fast 5K you can get yourself into coming up?
SG, nice 200s, but I'm afraid that extra 8 second recovery after one of the reps will negate any benefit. 8 seconds? How could you?!
Simon, those still sound very handy km reps if they aren't on a track. Having a hill in them is not killing you, it is making you strong.
Bus, some typical reps there! It must be handy to have the retching as a physical sign of when it's time to stop. Kind of like the clicking at the petrol pump when the tank is full,
Good summary there Ric. One for your forthcoming training manual/autobiography 'Hoes, Rods and Vaseline: My life as a runner, gardener and fisherman'.
Track last night for the next progression in the 10K sessions. 2 x 2 miles and 2 x 1 mile. 10:11, 10:10, 5:07, 5:05. Good pace on those, so all seems to be going well. Also, it occurred to me that (a) there were fireworks going on and (b) I was wearing a long-sleeve, which qualifies as warm clothing, so the first rule of Samir Haddad comes into effect, and those reps are worth about 20 seconds per mile faster.
On the way home, my legs felt fresh as a daisy, a far cry from usual, although my stomach was less happy. Feel strong and bouncy once again, and that all is well with my running, which can mean only one thing...
... I am about to get injured.
Missing a tuna baguette!
Monster session there Dachs and quality reps SC and Bus. 3.12 with a hill is some doing SC.
cracking TT to CC82.
I'd like to periodise my training to peak but I like just running lots of miles. Back in my earlier days of running when I used to monster a 10k loop from my house or on the treadmill I'd really notice the difference if I'd had a few days off. From my second to third 10k I jumped from 36.16 to 34.47 which were about 3 months apart and I had about 4-5 days off leading up to it. I don't think I've had 5 days off this year.
Less is more?
First game of football in 4 years last night and my groins are bloody tight today! Good fun though.
Yes, loads of activities but fairly lightweight in impact.
I have an element of interest in all sorts of things, but lack the obsession and the sort of energy required to extract the maximum from any given situation.
I settle for a result within those limitations. Hyperactive I'm not.
🙂
lots to catch up on but dachs 10k session stands out. if you dont break 32 you need a long look at your race day prep and training. put it this way if i did that session i would be looking for 31.30 zones on a race day. i think you will smash the race, get one in now before the weather becomes a factor
i tweaked/pulled a muscle in my groin on sunday. so another week of rest or when it felt better 40min progression runs where i start walking and every few minutes get a bit quicker. this week added together with the fortnight i missed with the chest infection have flattened any chances of a PB at telford 10k. but i will continue to build.
Also the m40 world masters 1500m heats were run in Australia this morning. In lyon there were 6 heats and you needed a 4.10 to get to the final. in australia only 2 heats and a total of 18 which had 16 to qualify and someone with a 5.11 qualified and the fastest qualifier ran 4.28! what a pointless exercise...should have been a straight final.
Jogged out to the Ealing Mile at lunchtime to see SG run round. I'll let SG tell his story but one little anecdote. I was hanging about near the start and was asked if I was racing as I would need a race number. I declined, joking I was there to pick up the pieces if SG broke down during the race and she smiled along until SG replied deadpan and showed the ICE band on his arm and her face was wonderful.
You've ruined the suspense a little bit in terms of whether he died or not though by saying that he will tell his own story. Unless you're intending that we hold a séance.
Dean, I will do my best not to let you down! 10K race is the 27th, so not too long to wait, and hopefully the weather can hold up until then.
Re the Masters, it shows what happens when you hold the championships in the most isolated big city in the world I suppose.
People have said I do turn a good line in impossible to be sure if serious deadpan dry humour
Right, that was a good job I booked a half day for that one, as that was an out at 10.30, back at 2.30 job post shower.
Headed off to Ealing, fairly excited, but with the usual pre race stressy nerves. Pete's tip that there was "a free carpark next door" made me think it'd be a synch, and as I was cruising down the M4 i was almost cursing setting off too early!
Even when heading through some "proper" London type bits, I was still making monster time.
Found the park, simple. Had a little drive round, no sign of the carpark. No worries, Pete said there's one right next door
20-30mins pass by, I'm rucking about up and down some horrible narrow bumper to bumper packed roads, reading many signs about "permit only" and at times covering the whole day. Did Pete say there was a free carpark? Or did he say free parking? Or did i imagine it all!?
Starting to gently panic a little bit now, and the tonneload of time i had is quickly monstering away. 15mins to 12, i'll check the main town, that'll have loads won't it. Nope. Underground station? No. Some pay metres surely? No, ruck's sake.
Had to ask some random woman, and she directed me to one particular street that had 1hour bays
So we had the pure farce of me wondering whether to pay for 30mins, run to the start, sign up, run back, move the car, and then pay again, or just do the 1 hour and hope I'm not too delirious post race to get back in 20mins after 
Jogged to the park, and like a classic farce, it seemed to be about 1/3mile away from where I'd parked, just for pure comedy.
Was delighted to regale the story to the organiser woman and some randoms, one of whom was sure he'd heard of some of my work."
Have you done Battersea Park, erm, yeah once, have you done LFOTM 5k in Hyde Park, yeah but not recently mate.
Ran off wondering if this had been Pete, but realised perhaps he'd have probably said "alright son, it's Pete from the thread" if it had been him.
Threw over the 5 clams for race entry, thinking that this is by far the worst value pro rata of all the 170+ races I've ever done, and thought of Big Ric's £1 per mile limit.
It was now about 12.10 and I thought i should probably at least pretend to get a warmup in. Put a mile in, feeling crappy, but was worth it to see that the out part of the course was a slight down, and thus a slight incline later.
I then saw a familiar face, it was SG thread favourite Uncle Phil, who'd run the 5miles down to see the big race.
A further mile ish warm up with some half hearted strides, wondering as the skies greyed up and looked like peesing it down, and erm it was nearly to race
(ED, get the ruck on with the actual report)
I'd presumed massively wrongly that the start was down the central path, but was in effect the other direction, round a bit of a dodgy turn within 5metres, and skiddy floor.
Luckily, the rest of the footing was good, and i steamed off, thinking, this doesn't feel that fast, wondering who else was up for it today, and what the intensity would be like.
Was feeling dreadful, and the breathing sounded as bad as ever, so thought that was the level we needed
An early close shave with some gimp with a tinny dog was I suppose all part of the fun, and then matey wearing a Fulham vest came past, who looked the part, and i'm sure i saw the watch say i was doing something like 5.40 pace, so presumed i
was having a turd of a race.
Later on i'm sure it was all over the place too, so i just thought, hold on with what you're doing until the last run in, and we can write some excuse disclaimers based on parking, stress, lack of decent warmup and erm, weather later on if needs be
Round the last turn, and the clock is only on about 4.40, hang on, 5 might be up for grabs, tried to put a big pimping end on, and almost in slow mo, that clock just ticked out... 4.55, 4.56,4.57,4.58 stop damm you, 4.59, 5.00
5.01
Winner did 4.59 and he must have eased in, as it didn't feel like an overtake was on earlier.
Overall, pleased with that as a real novelty, i wondered if a sub 5 was doable, and let's be honest that was the main target, but after presuming it was well gone during the race, to only narrowly miss at the end was a surprise!
Probably takes a few goes, and next time i'd know what not to do pre race! Can't do the December one as a work away day is rudely in place, but will be back at some stage.
So did you go for the full hours parking in the end, I feel like you've left me on a cliffhanger?
Great race result SG, and the usual high standard of reporting. In sheer distance terms, to beat 5 minutes you need to beat your todays' self by about 10metres.
Sorry to hear of the injury Dean. Damn things always choose their moment.
Also the m40 world masters 1500m heats were run in Australia this morning.
These events strike me as not being so much about ability but proof of having the time and money with which to take part.
Re: some of my interests. Time and money was too often the difference between success and not so much success.
And to my running exploits.
Short hill session early on. Only a set of six up a 200 yard hill. Garmin had me at well under six minute mile pace average.
I must have been operating in another dimension on one rep. Av pace 5:37, av moving pace 5:09, fastest pace 5:11.
🙂
Entertaining report as ever SG; I only mentioned free street parking, of which there was plenty when I went, with the only restriction being to leave by 3pm. Good race too and so close to sub 5 it should be on next time with less stress beforehand.
Sorry I couldn't do it; I've picked up a calf strain that will keep me out for a while. Went to our club training for the first time in months on Tuesday and it involved way to many sharp sprints with tight turns. Should have just binned the session and ambled through but didn't have my thinking head on. Here's hoping the thread consensus about coming back as strong/stronger after a rest is correct.
Hope the injury goes soon Dean, at least you know with that sort of thing it'll go if you're patient!
Ric has it spot on with at least the Australia masters for me. Once you start taking the already thinned down age group categories into super far flung locations, you're really going to get reduced quality.
Bus is a good quality geezer on the local vet scene, but he'd smash the slowest qualifying 1500 man you mentioned, Pete as well, and they're well over 40!
Pete, you are right, I did completely manage to translate your words! If i'd thought about it for a second I should have realised you don't just have big carparks in London, space is worth so much money! You must have picked a good choice of road though, as most of it looked to be permits only all day...Only saw a couple that were all bar a couple of hours. But I was getting a little anxious by then
Hope your injury goes soon too, the parkrunning must go on!
That's a fast pace up a hill Ric by the way!
Reminds me, now I'm in a stage of just appreciating that I can turn out to a fairly decent extent for shorter stuff, I should make a definite plan to finally get that 1 mile hill race in next August. Just for the pure hell of it.
Today made 9 races in 2016, equalling last year, with 4 in the last 5 weeks, so just that is pleasing for now. Even if they're all 5k and under in 2016 and 2015 saw 3 half marathons. Maybe one day a flat out half will be doable again, but for now thankful for small mercies.
ps checking the garmin, it only logged about 0.92 of the mile. It did struggle to find a signal at all for a while, so probably explains the "slow" readings when I checked.
It's a certified PO10 course, and if anything I didn't take 100% best racing line, as I vividly remember an appalling turn ending up in grass on the far side of a bend
pps Red wang, you ask in jest, but it was a good job I did the hour fee, as even though I ran with Phil past my car and in a straight line after, and ended up back in the road I'd parked in, I still spent 5mins messing about before finding it, giving me just 4mins spare of my hour
PO10 already has the mile results up. Good effort.
Although I presume their first sweep is to link names/clubs to people's individual pages, as my name isn't linked yet (no club)?
Winner has done a few quicker miles this year, 4.51 at Ealing just in September. Also has 20 (counted them!) quicker park runs this year than my fastest. Although all at Fulham, which they tell me is a fast course.
However, clearly a short distance man despite being a "proper" vet, dropping off up the distances.
ps was thinking Samir must have smashed it to do 4.51 at Ealing. Then thought he probably did only a bit slower for that first mile at Reading half that time
Good work SG. Gripping report too (especially for someone in the parking profession like myself
)
Please don't do a 100m race though. On current race v post length extrapolations we'd need a month to read the report
Good race SG, though if I'm being honest the parking was even more exciting
whats a proper vet though?
hope the calf heals quick pete
When's Telford Dean? Are you self coached now as I noticed John Danahay comment on a post on FB saying he wasn't coaching anymore?
Hope the strain isn't too bad Pete and nice work on the hill reps Ric. Any plans to race?
Bit annoyed with myself for playing the game of football as I've ruined my groins and the top of my quads/hip area. Managed 5 mile on the treadmill at 6.50 pace last night but my legs were bloody sore. Abbeydash is looking like a no go.
The hills are something I'm intending to do more of.
My chosen gradient came out on the Garmin in terms of elevation, as zero! maybe that's why I was so fast, I'm sure I was going upwards.
The hill actually starts shallow, then ramps up before the top. I was able to boot the pace and only hit the lungs in the latter stages. HR peaked at 167bpm. By the time I was down again, the HR was around 110 bpm.
I'm planning to gradually increase the number of reps until the session lasts over the hour.
Owing to the fact I only ran about 3 miles yesterday, and recovering well. This morning was going to be as easy I could make it.
Seven miles averaging 7:40. Felt I was hardly breathing so did some counting. Seems I was doing around 15 breaths/minutes.
As for cadence, felt a bit slow but was still 175 strides/minute.
No races planned. Why spoil things?
🙂