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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Should get a run in at lunch and might throw some strides in.
Nice 800s and classic SG consistency on the tempo.
Funnily enough SQ, I have now found my HR sitting quite low on the C2 when I am easy rowing. However the spectrum is so much narrower in terms of pace to effort than running. Going from 2:10 per 500m to 2:00 makes a big difference.
SG - nice tempo consistency there! Are you going to come to the next TVXC on our patch? Should be nice and muddy!
SC - continued consistently good training there.
SQ - impressive restraint on your return to running. Chapeau! Fingers crossed you're back at it fully soon.
Mrs TT and I ended up with something viral last week that hit both of us hard - her worse than me because of her long covid (we ended up in A&E/urgent care over the weekend). I've managed to get moving again this week but the post-viral joint aches are worse than I've ever had before so will have to settle for a watching role at the county champs XC this weekend.
Jr goes in the u20 race and has been rounding into good shape nicely after his knee injury so hopefully he'll have a solid run, though it may be a touch soon for him. It has been interesting seeing the targets his coach has set for him for next year after their planning session - he has a knack of judging his athletes very well. If I want to beat him over any distance again I'll have to get my finger out and find something that relies on strength as much as speed!
TT - Hope you and the missus are feeling better now. We have to wait until after xmas for our county champs, always a pain first weekend in the new year.
SC - no plans but a few potentials.
TT you're due a spell of uninterrupted health soon.
As we've all got older, maybe hit the peaks, it's become more a gang of pals (and others
To take it back to the original style a little, let me know your thoughts on the below...
TT, this'll be right up your street for details.
To a bit of chuckleration, these have come out 6.15-6.20 over 5-6 of these now. I don't expect them to get quicker as they're to an effort level.
Anyway....looking back at August 2011... my zones were
5k 5.25-5.30
10k 5.38-5.43
Tempo 5.50
HM 5.54-6.00
MP 6.17-6.22
Steady 6.30-7.00
Easy 7.15 -8.00
Recovery 8.05+
These were Aug 2011. I'd hit a scraped sub 1hr 18 by then, and later in that year did a 58.24 10miler, and 17.10 5k, 28.05 5m, and 35.20 10k.
I don't have any recent flat road races to compare but wouldn't be particularly close to any of those.
Best in 2022 was 17.16 5k, 28.30 5miler, 35.44 10k, 585x 10m so not a million miles off the above. But 2023 for different reasons, such as doing long races as experiences, doing random hilly races etc, hasn't been the same focus on flat road stuff.
I haven't really worried about zones this year, beyond seeing "easy" runs generally come out mid 7s on flat, bit higher on hillier runs, but did get a 7.16 14miler off the other week.
Plus obviously the MP tempos coming out between 6.15-6.20 "feeling" the right level (as i'm definitely no hero who can smash them).
Shorter stuff has been it comes out how it comes out in sessions, which have largely been unmeasured on track etc.
Question is...do I stick with the MP as 6.15-6.20, and use the similar zones to the above, or do i slow it all down a bit? Moving MP back would possibly feel a bit of a backward step...
In fairness, sometimes they're ending or have a bit of HMP in there which squeezes the pace up.
But If i used the above zones as aspirational, would that work?
Dashers has been great for 6 years, but I'm simply never that way anymore these days post covid - it's a long trip to join for a session, or means hours of hanging about post work the 1 day a week i'm in the office, combined with setting off on a 45min drive home gone 9ish.
There's also a new gang of younguns who've joined. Feels a decent time to move on. Perfection would have been going out as club champ, but 2nd to the legendary Mr Foster last year wasn't a bad result.
Handy Cross and Marlow are 2 local options - have dipped in with the Friday track meeting people from both. There's something great about a 5min drive back from a session not a 45min one!
There's also Wycombe Phoenix, but they do some brutal sessions, are expensive and not sure joining an even more competitive club is the right move now.
Handy Cross have a little handful of runners in and around my current level, and put on decent Tuesday sessions.
Marlow are more a social outfit, though do some hill sessions etc but would be the "romantic" return option, having run for them from 2006-2011.
I always did suit a red vest, as per the Sandhurst pen pic, but something about saying i'm from "Handy Cross" seems meaningless if you're racing miles from home
It'd also be a nice story to finally join a Wycombe club 20 years into racing
But seriously, how does a triple up of Handy Cross 1st claim, Marlow and Dashers twin 2nd claim sound?
Dashers do a £10 2nd claim option, and i'm currently on a 50% claim back scheme at work for the triple up
That'd keep in with the old gang, with the only real loss being I couldn't turn out in the 12 stage relay, or Masters relays.
Last year's 12 stage felt very much "last time" though...
I believe the "rules" say you can race for "up to" 2 clubs, but you can actually join a million clubs 2nd claim.
So passed that at least, with 5.58, 5.55, 5.54, 5.58.
So maybe that MP zone is well pitched.
Obviously need to develop longer at paces etc, but felt a proper session. Not the "fun" of last Friday's evenings, zooming round dark random Bourne End roads for random lengths of time, random recoveries and all different sections!
SC - we've got our local Sunday league xc the first weekend of the new year, and seen as I'm not doing the county champs this weekend it'll also be my first xc of the season (with the second, and last one, 6 days later!).
SG - I think the answer, this morning's mile reps notwithstanding, is pretty clear here - set your pace ranges according to current ability, not aspirational. Also bear in mind that running slightly slower doesn't automatically put you in a different training zone. A case in point is my own approach to marathon effort in training - if doing classic Lydiard stuff where one of the base runs is 10m @ Marathon effort, in my head I pitch that as current MP + 0-15s. My HM to MP is tight (8-10s per mile), so MP feels a bit of a grind in training, so I cut myself some slack and aim for more of a flow. It can often be the difference between 6m of it feeling enough, and getting the 10m in.
Felt horrendous yesterday so a very easy 5m was more than enough. Apparently it's known as post-viral-arthritis. It's not as bad as it sounds. I'm prone to inflammatory issues (that's the cause of a lot of my fibro issues) and usually post-virus I get inflammation in the muscles, but this time it's in my joints.
Feel a bit better today, so 45min jog this morning and will do a bit more later.
As for the club, I guess it depends on your priorities, social and being a big fish in a small pond, featuring in relay teams etc or having better runners to push you.
The other session of the week more the faster stuff.
I'll dig out the old Moz training and see how to develop it along.
What I do know is that Tuesday and today's runs felt satisfying. Felt like "proper" training. That little element of risk that you might not hit the objectives which keeps you honest.
Will try and fuse this in with whatever the Friday track crew are planning. But do have a preference for proper measurable times/distances than the mins of effort they do. Feel like they've been fun, but for proper results you need more measure.
As for the club, think I've done the relay stuff, as fun as they were for years that's plenty. XC no real worries. Ability to meet real locals probably more important here and there now, whilst doing my own thing when need be too.
Have never been a fan of the idea of competing in training against others. A local pal of mine utterly monsters himself on the track every week, then seems to underdo it in actual races. 3-4 times a week talking about tired legs, lack of sleep etc.
Handy Cross have got a few that I reckon would be a decent training partner, share the load in sessions, without it becoming trying to monster each other. That seems decent.
ps TT, it's hard to judge current pace a bit at the moment and the difficulty with zones is that it's often a different kettle of fish depending on distance.
say 5.30 for 5k. That's 17.05. I wouldn't do 17.05 for a 5k race now, but could I do 200s at 41seconds? Too easy.
400s at 1.22, again, comfortable. 800s at 2.44? Probably still doable.
It's when you throw in bigger distances I suppose. A mile at 5k pace would certainly take building to, and would need a track I dare say.
TT - forgot to add, a mutual pal of myself and Jools may have to quit due to oesteo-arthritis, so saw that latter word in your post and thought oh no, but good it's not as bad as it sounds then!
I'm always amazed at the comebacks a lot of people make. I'm more the consistent and steady type, whilst others seem to drop off a cliff completely and have to rebuild, then come back to their higher levels!
Decent field at their clubhouse for spring and summer sesh. But little road loop about 200 metres away for evenings.
With group stuff you're doing the generic session which may or may not be what helps you.
However, finding a lovely mix of the 2 is the goal!
Last Friday was a bit too much of the shiggles, whereas the Friday track ones are a decent workout in company.
While I've enjoyed those Friday sesh, you can't half beat being finished for the week by Friday afternoon can you!
SG - maybe join a club where there's some quicker than you folks to join up with. Maybe target a few bigger races a year and take the motivation from chasing the quick folks in races.......re the training, I probably look at this differently.......but for me being able to run X reps at Y pace at 6am on a Tuesday morning in February (for example) only predicts your ability to perform X reps at Y pace at 6am on a Tuesday...........wether you do 3x2m or 3x12min doesn't matter, what matters is training at the right sort of effort. What you can compare is what the X reps at Y pace resulted in at a subsequent race, and use that at a later time.......but due to all the uncontrollables such as stress, tiredness, life etc the Y pace migjt end up very different to race day pace. But again race day is done to effort and the watch records the outcome.........if improving is your aim then consider getting an online coach ? Or even weights, there's big improvements in running economy to be made by a non weight trainer like yourself, don't forget that the shoes are called 4% as that's the estimated improvement in running economy..........just saying.
Not sure I need faster runners, but runners in and around who can share the weight of sessions is definitely something HX would offer.
Weights, done correctly no doubt would help, but they're one of those nice to haves at my level really. Expecially for my ecto type build.
I'm not going to be like Reg cracking all sorts of nuts in his guns
A lady from track brought me into a strava "survival" group which is a bit of fun.
100 of us in there, the chariman sets some challenge. No running for the week gets you booted, as does being the lowest / not meeting the challenge.
Obviously pretty easy to stay in so far and now we're down to 85.
There's some maniac mileage monsters and ultra types in there, so could get tasty later on.
Needless to say I won't deviate much from my own plan to stay in there as that'd be daft, but will probably get a lot deeper in off what I do weekly anyway.
Aside from the fact I'm doing it myself, and have been coached remotely, so potentially biased, TR does have a point. Aside from helping me with my training I learned a lot from my coach about what/when/why/how, etc. Good week from you, and the challenge sounds like fun.
For the record, imo zones shouldn't change depending on distance. Based on the runner and their aerobic profile, yes, but that's a different story.
There is a benefit to training in groups, but there is also a big benefit to training alone. Usually most club sessions are either not set up to give me what I want (there is a predilection towards year round anaerobic work in this country) or there's nobody in the groups doing the type of sessions I want to run with, so I end up running primarily solo.
Not much to report here. Took a few days off as got fed up of every step reverberating through every joint in my body. Still feeling subpar today, but it's the best I've felt for a fortnight so will look to get back to things now.
I'm sort of half/half coaching wise, half Tony S, half myself. I've always been able to do sessions alone no problem.
Another weekend another race. Quick short race report - this was the 'South of Thames 'Senior'' s it's the 7.5 mile one. Mixed field, but luckily Lucy Reed from Tonbridge, who usually runs and hassles me, had done 26.03 at the Battersea 5m the night before
So it's 3 laps of the Lloyd Park in Croydon. Set off a cross a field, slight up and down, through a gap to a 100m slight downhill, tight right turn up a muddy hill to the top field which you basically do a whole lap of, plus a down and up in the corner. Then you pass the muddy hill and around to the bottom field again through to start the 2nd lap.
1st lap is always a struggle, takes a while to get going. Grew into it and slowly went away from my team mate Jeff. Tired but reasonably strong on the last lap and tried to take my old team mate but just couldn't do it. Ended up 25th in 44.32 for 1st V50, 5.57 miling for a pretty boggy course. Get a lovely shiny coin for a prize.
Yesterday was the Bedford & County AC Christmas handicap, annoyingly I was supposed to be doing 17/18 mins with my son for the 2.97 mile course...but he hurt his foot playing footie at school so I was handicapped on 15.35! Well gave it go and ended up with 16.15 so not too bad. No wooden spoon either, can't complain - just dispiriting having all the elite Bedford lads whoosh past
Think I'm on about 19 for 2023 but you seem to do them almost every week, often multiples😮
SC - sounds rapid on a boggy course! And good turnout the next day too.
Short double today. Felt better on the 2nd run. Still a ways to go though.
Good to have a few clubs to choose from, SG. Proximity and similar paced runners have got to be high on the wish list. Then I suppose it’s about whether they, as a club, do the events you aspire to and also the social fit. Actually most crucially is whether the training times work! Cheltenham is blessed with several good running clubs but at the moment timings don’t work for me so no motivation to move.
Impressive double header, SC. My hamstring winces just thinking about it 😆
4 x 10 mins jogging (off the usual 60s walk) on Friday and felt good post treatment. Broke all the rules and ran consecutively by doing my first parkrun in months the next morning. Unstructured walk run with my son hopping in and out of the buggy so this broke it up well.
Then couldn’t resist having a crack at a continuous run yesterday with 5M at 9m/m pace. Lovely to get into the flow a bit more.
Got a bit ambitious with an attempted 7 today. Pace came well at about 8:10s but a mile from home I could sense the hamstring fatigue. Binned the run at 6M and walked home. Took an ambitious shortcut through a field. A) very boggy and don’t know why I thought walking a route I would never run in the winter would be sensible.
surveyors and fencing on site for what is a frequent and lovely off road summer loop 😞. Hypocrisy on my behalf though as I returned to our five year old home.
So DEFINITELY a day off running tomorrow. Will try to get on the spin bike early doors.
Glad to hear you’re on the mend at last.
I did parkrun again Saturday then marshalled Skirrid fell race. Parkrun wasn’t great but I didn’t antagonise my injury at least. Walking to my marshalling point on the summit ridge was ok & I even jogged down intermittently.
I started right at the back about 20” after the gun. Meant I got held up on the initial steep narrow descent but spent the whole ‘race’ overtaking people. Managed to run the whole thing & avoid further damage. Finished in 52:56 for 40th place out of 132 finishers. My best was 6th in 40:25 back in 2013 after Saturday’s 19:44 parkrun & a very hilly XC at Malvern 😂 I’ve not raced it since 2015 when I did 44 minutes the day after racing Skirrid & a parkrun but once over the line I couldn’t walk as I’d done myself an injury. Prior to this one that was my longest enforced lay-off since I began running 20 years ago. Glad to get round it as intact as I was before running it.
I’ve taken the day off to let the DOMs wear off.
Same for you SQ - i've always got a bit of a tight hamstring and it feels slightly locked at the mo, but essentially ok.
6mile tempo today... 6.36 pace just to break the 6.15-6.20 zone
Woke up and it'd been raining heavily for hours. Bleak, wet, cold.
Didn't dare use the clapped out, but still good for tempos Vapors, as per previous description of how one shoe has zero grip, and is burnt well into the foam. That on slippy, wet, puddly surfaces would be mentalism.
So better grip shoes, conditions etc, I thought I wouldn't try and still match the usual, or even do the original plan of adding more HMP sections, but instead stripped it back to steady / fartlek.
Averaged out 6.36, and the graph looks very jaggedy, which is what you'd expect, so that's good enough today. Definitely wouldn't say it was a doss, but I guess that's why Moz would label this zone "steady" and not "easy"
Friday will probably look at developing last Friday's 4x1m sub 6 sesh....weather pending!
Sorry to hear the layoff is so extended, Jools. But at least no further damage whilst you’re still managing to run.
Good to hear some progress from Jools (good racing) and SQ.
HHH pub crawl Monday night, so no training yesterday as I'm treating Sunday as a session...and I was fed up with the weather and very tired! But did 5m with a heavy bag on way home
Did 9 this morning, LBAC curry night tonight. Trying to stay sensible.