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Sub 3h15

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    OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    I'm also now going tovthe Expo tomorrow probs a bit earlier than you guys but I'll keep an eye out.
    Great run DT. Huge respect for pulling that off in tough conditions. Boston went much worse for me, so I know how good that time is.
    My last hard sesh tonight too. 6*1km. I hoped to reign it in but got carried away as usual. Really must put the brakes on now 😉
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Oo, great work on the masters victory.  

    Gdawg, yes, it seems kipchoge is absolutely human and made a rookie error.

    2.46.18 for me. I won't say too much now as I'll do a full report however I could tell in Mile 1 and how my body felt that it wasn't going to be the ride I wanted. I was fighting to hit pace as opposed fighting to rein it in. Went to some dark places particularly in first half, but then the way the 2nd half is broken down it seemed more manageable. Somehow got to 22m on plan, I just couldn't execute from there. Didnt help that coming off Newton all the way in it poured down as it did 10 mins before start and incrementally throughout. 

    I take comfort from fact kipchoge was 8 mins off his Berlin time whilst I was 100s. I doubt he's sat at home now questioning his fitness. 
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    JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    I'll await the full report, DT, but at this stage my only comments are:
    1.  you may have been fighting to hit pace, but you got to 22 miles on target: chapeau!
    2.  I seriously underestimated the effects of racing a marathon with jetlag when I did Chicago in 2016 (I was similar to you and flew out on the Friday).  There's not much of an alternative (unfortunately) unless you want to blow the budget on flying out 10-14 days in advance.

    6 miles this morning, and finally felt strong enough post-injury to venture away from laps of the local park and onto a more interesting out and back route.  The skylarks were in full voice, which was a treat.
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    OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    That sounds good Jools and just in time for summer.
    DT I was also on plan at 22 just about, and hoped I'd motor down hill to the finish. Instead I gradually imploded losing 2.5 mins. in the last mile. You ran far better and in worse conditions. Its an incredible result to hold it together like that👌
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    SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    Great run at Boston DT.  Hope you enjoyed the whole experience.

    Good luck to everyone for Sunday.  Conditions looking ideal so no excuses!

    Still fighting a few demons here but hoping to get back to marathon running soon!
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    DT - don't be hard on yourself, very strong run on a tough course. Hope sunday isnt too tough so soon.

    All the best folks, go well.
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    Good luck tomorrow folks - see you in Chandos 😀
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    OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2023
    Thanks guys and all the best SBD you'll be back soon enough.
    Chandos 🍺🍺🍺
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    GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    Good luck tomorrow guys! 
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Gérard. Good to hear from you sbd, hope you're back soon. 

    Just on train to blackheath. See you in the chandos in a few hours. 
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    Great work OO and DT.

    OO you need to keep the minimal marathon focus, it's going well.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    That was really tough on the quads from very early in. It was tough to find a reason last 10k to hurt when a pb, sb or cr were off the table. I settled on chasing sub 2.50. Great to have a beer with oo, lorenzo and their families in the chandos, both of whom had more cause to get happy than I did. 
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    G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Great pic! I came looking for you all after meeting my eldest but couldn't find you. Did you go upstairs?
    Good to briefly see you, DT. Fantastic running week, mate. Well done!

    Not a great day for me at all yesterday. Hamstring tendinopathy won the day. After cruising and holding back in the early miles, I felt great in the perfect conditions but the hamstrings were tight from the first mile. They really kicked in after 8 miles and from there is was a real grind through the pain.

    Went through halfway in 90 mins but could feel the pain holding me back, they get so tight, it feels like they fill with concrete. Not sure if it affected other things going on but despite my usual proven race nutrition plan I had to stop and go through the motions of being sick (just retching) at 19 and 25 miles.

    Scored 3.07 in the end, so the time I pretty much predicted and the healthy GFA I wanted.

    Well done, team, on some brilliant results!

    Time for me to spend the next few weeks recovering and finding a fix for this condition before the Valencia campaign starts in August.
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    GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    Well played lads. G Dawg - given your injury woes that’s a very good run. Love the photo. Wish I had been there. Maybe next year …
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    OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2023
    Cheers DT what a fun meet up. We missed you G Dawg. I didn't even behave that badly considering all the excitement 😆
    That is a good result GD all things considered. I love the idea of you joining us next year Gerard, especially in Chandos.
    I thought the conditions panned out well yesterday and seem to be confirmed by the elites too. My race went well. I was planning to go off  at 6:50 pace but 6:40s felt so comfortable I stayed with it. The middle section of the race felt a little tough but once we came out of canary wharf it felt like a run for home and I couldn't help accelerating to 6:30 pace and started cutting through the field which always feels good. I passed a lot of folks who had sailed away earlier in the race including a couple of my V60 rivals which felt great.
     Final time was 2:54:57 off 1:28:08 at half way. So a negative split and new PB, 3rd V60 overall and 2nd Brit. Well above my expectations and taking the pressure off for Chicago in the autumn. I'm gonna ease back on the mileage for a while and concentrate on track and shorter stuff over the summer. What's up next for you guys?
     

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    JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Blimey, OO, that's an amazing result!  Huge congratulations on your new PB and V60 podium :)
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    G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Chicago is definitely faster than London, OO. Can't wait to see how you get on there!
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    Can't believe you didn't find us G-Dawg. Real shame to have missed you so belated congrats on your run. Sounds as though it was a touch final few miles so well done for digging in there.

    Great stuff from DT and OO - an honour to have celebrated with the two of you.

    I was also really chuffed with how the day went. A solid and pretty consistent block of training meant that I went into the race aiming for sub-3:15 and another GFA place (I've moved up an age category so now need sub-3:20 to get into the mix).

    Despite a rather stressful 45 minutes in the toilet queue (how difficult can it be to estimate the number of portaloos required?) plus the realisation that I'd lost one of my safety pins, I reminded myself of the plan: go off sensibly and stick to a pace of just under 23 mins for each 5K. My track record on this front isn't good as I've tended to let the occasion and over-optimism get to me.

    So, I was delighted to chalk up consecutive 5K splits of 22:24, 22:32. 22:41, 22:27, 22:19, 22:52, 22:43, 22:57 and the last 2.2K at 22:34 pace for a 1:34:50/1:36 split (which is as close to a negative split at London as I've ever got) and a 3:10:51 finishing time. WAVA of 74.65 is my highest ever age-related score for a marathon.

    Most importantly I managed to catch both Lorenzitos on the course spectating and spent the majority of the race with a big smile on my face :)

    Next up for me is a spot of walking (Lyke Wake Walk next weekend, West Highland Way at the end of the month) and a few more silly tube line runs for good measure. Then it's the Snowdonia Ultra Trail Marathon in July - 57km with 2,200m of elevation. Should be good fun. No plans (yet) for an autumn marathon.
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    Well done Lorenzo, strong run.

    OO - cracking to go sub3 as m60, you are really going well at the mo. Nice.

    Top backing up DT, defo have the capability of going quicker.

    Dawg - I feel for you. It's crap when your body is more of a limiter than yr engine. I'm trying hard to get more mobile, so i can get back to it.
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    JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Those are very nice splits indeed, Lorenzo.  Well done!  Enjoy your walking holidays - I guess you're getting WHW in just before peak midgie season?

    G-Dawg: sorry, I didn't reply to your post.  It sounds like you retrieved a good result in a tricky situation there.

    6.5 miles hilly-ish for me this morning, and then Our Future Health testing.  Blood pressure and cholesterol all good, but you can tell I've not done much exercise due to Covid and injury: RHR (albeit seated) was over 70 first time and 65 second.  Ooof.  It used to be 50 or lower at my fittest!
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    OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited April 2023
    Many congratulations OO54, that was a beautifully run race and what a second half to the marathon!  Sub 3 at V60 is a rare thing, but for an active marathon runner to PB at V60 with such a good time is exceptional.  I noted your very fast 10K a few weeks ago.

    DT I read things didn't go 100% to plan for Boston but 2.46 is super fast nonetheless, considering the time differences etc. Looking at the 2 marathon performances combined,  your performances were amazing.  Faster times to come.

    Nicely done too Lorenzo & G-Dawg. 
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    OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Great to hear from you Ouch Ouch hope things are all going well. And thanks for the kind words.

    Yes that's a fair rise in RHR Jools and done properly by medics rather than garmin. Mine has also gone up since I upgraded my garmin 😆
    I'm back running gingerly and swimming. Legs are pretty heavy though.

    When I went in for my unspeakable bowel test recently the nurse wired me up, as they monitor HR during the procedure. Suddenly a red light started flashing on her equipment (signalling low HR). She just looked at me and said- you're a runner aren't you....
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    SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    An excellent day on Sunday.  Conditions looked ideal.

    Outstanding performance OO - amazing to lower the PB as a V60 and 2nd UK resident is some achievement. You're really hitting a golden streak across all distances.

    Well battled with the hamstring issues G-D.  That's a great result.

    Excellent pacing Lorenzo to get you the GFA busting 3:10.

    A casual 2:48, 6 days after Boston is pretty impressive DT.  I'm not surprised the quads were complaining!

    Having watched the race live whilst sprawled out on the sofa, I'm feeling extremely unfit and lazy.  However, today was Day 1 of the new streak.  Only a steady 8K but acorns and all that ...
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    OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Good man SBD go out and get em'
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good to have you back, SBD!

    Thanks, Ouchouch. I think perhaps with hindsight I was treating Boston as a Berlin and not applying any leeway for course difficulty in comparison as well as the travel. It's still a respectable duo though as you say. 

    Jools, yes that is a climb, perhaps you are about to be ill?

    That's some great pacing, lorenzo! 

    Gdawg, you've persevered and battled on despite the troubles and still putting in a sizeable gfa do you should be proud. 

    Oo, it still amazes me you can pb at any distance at 60 when you've been running for so many years. Had you started at 50 say then maybe different but you raced through your 30s and 40s I thing? How many maras have you now run? 

    I've felt pretty good this week, albeit constantly hungry. Done 2 x 4m rums and a spin class. Hoping to find time tomorrow for a race report.

    On reflection I'm in a better place than last spring having run a 2.50 at MK and plenty more to achieve this year.

    Off to Paris Saturday for a few nights to take my lad to a psg game for his birthday so will pick things back up next week. 
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    JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Ha!  No, the climb in RHR is because I'm really unfit compared to what I used to be, exacerbated by little/no running in Jan/Feb due to Covid + ankle sprain, and then only limited running in March due to further injury.  It'll come back down a bit, but I doubt it will go back under 55bpm unless I start doing a large volume of training again.  I don't think it reflects illness/likely illness.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Boston/London 2024 combo

    The Boston marathon had intrigued me for some time, I think of all the Major courses it is the most unique for a multitude of reasons.

    With a very comfortable BQ buffer I persuaded my wife last summer that we should go and promised her in equal portions that we would make it a holiday and I wouldn’t want to spend the days pre-race sat on my bed.

    Time seemed to whizz by and following a big training block from November-April which produced a parkrun, 10k and sizeable half pb I went to Boston full of hope and ambition. I’d done my research on the event and the course and trained as specifically as was possible. I was lighter than I had ever been and definitely fitter.
    As part of my preparations I had decided to book a place on a private club bus to the start having seen pictures of previous years when the weather hasn’t been great, particularly given how long they have you at the start area.

    We arrived in Boston on the Friday afternoon on a plane heavily populated by quite obvious runners. By the time we made our way to our hotel it was 8pm so we dumped our bags, popped to a local restaurant/bar chain and had some dinner and a beer. Of course on our clock it was now 2am so we then went to bed. I found it very difficult to settle into the timezone and probably just about got there on the final day. Each morning I would wake at circa 4am and would struggle to fall back asleep. On the Saturday morning I headed out for a pre-breakfast 4m shakeout. We then embarked on a 12 hour sightseeing session, walking some 13m. The Sunday included similar but incorporated the expo and an afternoon at the baseball.
    Neither day in my view facilitated great mara prep, but I had to balance the fact that I was on holiday, somewhere I may well not visit again and we were child free for the first time in 5 years.

    Monday morning required a 5.25am alarm in order to get a taxi to my bus pick up for 6.15. The beauty of a private bus was that I could take a carrier bag of food, drink and pre-race bits and pieces, as opposed the small a4 sized bag you could take on the official buses. The bus was around 60% full so plenty of room to relax and stretch out plus it had a toilet. A couple of lads sat by me who looked like thirtysomething fast lads so I assumed they would be in coral 1 ahead of me. They were quite serious runners but were a few corrals down on me as circa 2.58 runners. I seem to suffer at times with a degree of ‘imposter syndrome’. They were relatively local and had run the course a few times so were good company. As the only Brit on the bus quite a few others came to speak to me about various things, just generally interested in having a ‘foreigner’ on board.

    The bus arrived in Hopkinton around 7.30 and the benefit of this set up was it stayed until all runners had left so we all just chilled out and chatted. There was a dense fog in Hopkinton and it was a bit drizzly. Around 9am I started getting myself ready and left for the start at 9.20. I was a little surprised as to how far the walk was. What was also surprising was that despite the various toilet queues and the fact that the athletes village was surrounded by heavy woodland, nobody was roughing it which I found unusual given my experience in Berlin where many were tucked into the undergrowth adjacent to the start line.

    I eventually made my way to the start, resisting the urge to queue at the toilet as I had been told there was another bank of toilets just before the corrals that was always much quieter, which they were. At the point I joined the toilet queue, circa 9.45, it started to pour down. I then made my way to the coral and a quick blast of the US anthem and we were off.

    The plan was to not get drawn into a fast start with the downhill over the first 5m and to then settle and hit halfway in or around 82 minutes. I expected first few miles to be a battle to keep pace down given the profile of the course, however what you never really get told about with Boston is that within the macro level downhill there are just lots of small rolling ups and downs. Granted that each downhill is bigger than the preceding uphill but it just doesn’t come as easy as the elevation charts indicate.

    I felt some immediate concern in mile 1 as I wasn’t fighting to slow down, I was chasing the pace. I’ve been here before, no warm up and it can take a few miles just to settle, so be patient and it’ll come. It continued to rain on an off for the duration of the race, which didn’t unduly trouble me, I was more concerned about wind strength. 

    The first few miles ticked by and by mile 3 I was having a dark time. I could tell this wasn’t on today I just felt stale and tired and knew that this was not going to be the coast to personal glory I had anticipated. Mile 1-5 went 6.32, 6.15, 6.09, 6.06 and 6.14. I was averaging around 6.17mm on my garmin at this time but could not see how this would be maintained with 21m to go. The next 5m proved to be even more troubling as we meandered through various Boston suburbs and as each mile flashed up on my watch I was continually surprised as it felt like I had lost it. I was feeling like I’d expect to feel at mile 22 on a bad day. At mile 8 I had a really dark period where I felt like I just needed to stop and I think if I hadn’t been on the event of a lifetime and I was in Boston, Lincs (no offence to any Bostonians out there) I’d have just walked off. The next 5m came in 6.12, 6.08, 6.13, 6.08 and 6.10 and my average pace had now dropped to 6.14mm, which was where Lewis told me to aim.
    My mood was somewhat random and literally over the period of minutes I would flip from feeling done to feeling good and that I could do it. I was already making deals with myself which was troubling. At mile 10 I set myself the task of getting to the scream tunnel at mile 13 without losing anything and after that, get to the big downhill at mile 16 then enter the hills. I persevered with a 6.13, 6.08 and a 6.11, getting through halfway in 81.45, just ahead of target and a minute under pb if I run an even split, which was a big if given what was coming and how I felt. 

    The next few miles were just about sitting steady, get to the downhill and then manage Newton. I couldn’t however see how I would manage Newton successfully as I felt already at my limit and taking water from the little cups was not easy when working at effort. Onwards with a 6.13, 6.13 and 6.03 and here I am, 10m out and on for a low 2.43, despite having felt rubbish for most of the previous 16.
    Next up was the Newton Hills and oddly, this period made the next 5m mentally much more achievable, simply because you could address them 1 at a time and between each one there’s pretty much a mile of significant downhill, therefore you aren’t just ploughing out mile on mile thinking of the numbers.



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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I trained for these hills and I’d seen in training when running up big hills 17m into a long run, even if I slow significantly, my average pace drops by a second or two and its quickly clawed back on a downhill. I’d also done the math and knew over the next 5m it was about 300ft of gain. I entered Newton averaging 6.12mm I seem to recall. The first hill was very much a warm up hill and was essentially a motorway bridge and that was over quickly, albeit I gave the respect and trotted it slowly. I came off it and hit the downhill and clawed back quickly any average pace loss.
    On to the next at mile 17 which was preceded by the first turn of the course at the fire station, which was blasting out sweet caroline as I passed. The next hill was a bit tougher and longer but that was done with nominal damage. Hill 3 I actually found the toughest, perhaps that is because in my head I knew I still had Heartbreak. Then suddenly without really thinking about it 20m was done.

    Heartbreak Hill kicks in at around 20.3m and goes on half a mile. It’s not what you want to see in mile 21 for sure and as many have said before, the danger of these hills is that they come at a time in the race when you’ve run a long way and you also still have a long way to run, together with the cumulative climbing of them as opposed to any individually being tough. 

    As I proceeded up Heartbreak hill the crowds were crazy and I did slow that bit more however I knew that if I came off this well there was a fast 4-5m to come. I was surprised quite soon to see a huge banner telling us we had completed Heartbreak hill and I had this sudden energy hit. I wasn’t feeling that much worse than I was at 8m and now I only had 4 downhill miles to go. Those 5m came in 6.22, 6.31, 6.11, 6.33 and 6.47. My watch was averaging 6.16mm and the plan was to hit the remaining miles at 6mm pace. I picked things up well with a 6.12 at mile 22 and at this point, somehow I was still on for a pb if I could just run the last 4 at or around 6mm.

    I can’t quite put my finger on what then happened but I just crashed. It did at this point start properly hammering down and I’d barely taken on any water at the stations because they were in small cups and the effort I was working at from very early on meant that trying to get any in my mouth was a minor form of waterboarding so I just gave up. I recall also that I did some calculations at mile 22 and worked out I needed to 5.55mm it home to pb and perhaps that just blew the endeavour away as that wasn’t going to happen.

    Mile 23 came in at 6.20 and I knew my day was up and I just peddled in the last few miles, determined to enjoy the entry to the city and the famous right and left. Last few miles came in 6.26, 6.27 and 6.37 and a 6.26 paced last bit for 2.46.18. Frankly if I’d been offered that at mile 8 I’d have ripped someone’s hand off!
    I met my wife in the park for a quick freshen up and change and then on to Cheers bar, which was a big part of what I wanted for the day. We spent a good few hours in there watching it slowly get busier and busier, drinking 10 dollar pints. We then moved on to a few other bars but found ourselves back in Cheers about 8pm to meet a friend in there from a local club to me. By this time people were quite merry and we had a good night.

    Couple more days enjoying Boston (if you’ve never been, it’s a great city and worth a visit!) then a 10pm flight home Wednesday, landing at Heathrow at 9am. Very little sleep on flight, couple of hours at home, pick kids up from school and that was a total lost nights sleep!

    Friday fortunately I had a day off but it was my sons birthday so an early start then we promised him a sleepover with 4 friends in the night, which didn’t involve much sleep! Saturday I set off for London and finally arrived at my hotel just after 9pm. Got my bits sorted and went straight to bed.

    Alarm went off at 6.30, quick breakfast then off to Blackheath. Arrived at the common about 9am and the walk up the hill from the station my quads were struggling and I knew a tough day was to come. There was no clear plan for London, Lewis said go out at 6.45s and you’ll soon know what’s on, much like in Chester. The queues for the toilet at the yellow start were unreal, I joined at 9.20 and made it in just before 9.55, by which point, it was also pouring down. Jumped into the back of my wave, and being wave 1 and not being that bothered about charging off I was quite happy at the back.

    First 3m I had plenty of space and just relaxed and let the pace come with a 6.32, 6.29 and 6.30. Aerobically I felt great, much different to Boston, but my body was tired, particularly the quads. I decided therefore not to push on as aggressively as I did in Chester as ultimately I was there to enjoy the day.

    Things became a bit more crowded at the 5k merge point but I didn’t let it unduly stress me. At about 7m I passed a female clubmate and had a chat with her. She asked how I was feeling and I recall telling her my quads were already in bits. This continued to worsen, however I was running much more within myself and went through halfway in 85.08 with miles consistently in the low 6.20s. Tower Bridge for me is always a big part of London, I really enjoy that bit, but it also signifies the time to get the head down.

    At halfway I felt like I could probably push on to creep under 2.50 albeit I didn’t know what my quads would do, so I let the pace creep up and started running 6.10s and pretty soon found myself cutting through the field. The 20m mark presented some tough work from there onwards as I knew there was nothing significant in suffering as I wasn’t going to get a pb or an sb (actually I might as Boston doesn’t count on RB for those purposes it appears) or even a course best but the prospect of a sub 2.50 was a sufficient carrot and of course when you are just passing through people it feels much easier, despite the sheer pain from my quads and calfs by now. My 5k splits were also largely even to progressive and finished in 2.48.38 for an 83.30 second half.

    Good to grab a beer with OO and Lorenzo afterwards and a brief chat with gdawg. I then popped up the road to meet the Team NLC crew for a few more before making my way home. At the pub I bumped into Nicko who was posting on her a while back. He had run a 2.54 for a 3 min pb. The first NLC lad back was 2.21. He started exercising in Covid as was overweight, unfit, smoker, drinker and junk food eater. Basically mid 30s and been running circa 3 years!

    I hold some disappointment as my half in February told me I was in solid pb shape and I can’t help thinking if I had only run London I would have done some damage to it. However I can’t regret running Boston, and I am pleased with how I toughed it out for so long in that race.

    Time now for taking it easy and a family holiday late May before I start building again.
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    OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2023
    I've no idea what RHR for female non athletes should be Jools but I'd have guessed your's would be a little lower given your background. If you wear a garmin everyday I guess you know whether those are typical values for you.

    London was my 37th marathon DT plus 3 virtuals. I have run for around 35 years but in my Senior days, work and family meant that I rarely ran more than 25-30 miles a week. This may have extended my career a bit compared to my peers back then, most of whom either don't run now or are slower these days. Interestingly though I looked up the V60 Brit who beat me in London and he has been running as long as me, coming from an ultra and Tri background.
    Good to hear you're in good shape DT can't wait to see what else you can achieve this year. I'm focusing on shorter stuff over the summer, mainly track and a couple of 10ks. It's the BMAF road mile champs in Edinburgh in early June. The field is tasty but I'm targeting a podium and running close to 5 mins 🤞
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