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good session moof- very similar to mine.
I travel a lot on business and have a GPS and have taught myself to use it as a get home device so I can deliberatley go out into a wood or other unknown area and just run freely without any plan and when I feel I need to I can turn to the GPS and run the same route in reverse. Of course the clever bit is to try and make some sort of sense so 3 miles eat, 3 north, 3 west and hope that home is 3 south and not 9 back tracking.
ave05:49.2 05:56.9 05:55.1 05:55.1 05:46.2 05:48.1 05:33.9Ant, I did that one last Sunday, 10m including the 6 x 1m and 3mins recovery. It was ok, but did I cheat? as i did it on a beloved treadmill. They came out:
Last one was a bit faster as I wanted to know what it felt like to run at 4:45 pace. It was so scarey that I lasted about 10 seconds
Minks - Yes, I'd say Edinburgh is a good course and I preferred it to London. However, it does receive mixed reviews. It can often be uncomfortably hot and I think the organisers have conspired to cock up the logistics on a couple of occasions. But it's a pleasant enough route, with patches of support along the way. Potentially a quick course, that's for sure.
Mind you, I think your new guru Minni ran it recently and hated it.
I regularly do a 5k session which is 6x800m at 5k pace so I really run 4,800 metres at 5000m race pace but in training. The hard bit is the race when you have to do them back to back with the rest, the training is much easier.
Philip, in an ideal world ...
My husband would say that I can't even read a paper map, let alone figure out a GPS. And I much prefer to have worked out a route before I run (usually on the Mapometer website) so I know that I'll be running the right distance. I should probably be a bit more spontaneous sometimes!
Minni, I usually do a long run of 12-14 when I'm not marathon training so building up to 18-20 wouldn't be too much of a leap. I think my plan right now is to have a look at the P&D schedules and see if I can work out a way to fit that sort of training into my week (maybe with a few tweaks). I'll also work on slowing down my long runs, keeping a midweek medium-length run and adding in some shorter but faster sessions.
AR - Hats off to you for bagging that session; doing it on a treadie only makes it more daunting, I would say.
PMJ - 6 x 800m is a key session and one included in my list of post-marathon resolutions.
I hope I can keep up this enthusiasm. I've got a HM on the 25th, a 6pm Saturday start, and have booked a hotel to stay over afterwards with Mrs. Ant as it's a nice town in a beautiful area. Not really a PB course, as you go up 200m in the first 10kms and then come down again.
I then have a 10k on 22nd June, after which I'll be focussing on shorter, faster stuff (helped by MT's Magic Mile) combined with longer,slower stuff (is that possible?) over the summer.
TAR - yes I've run Edinburgh twice and hated it both times. Its such a long drag. Saying that, both times I've done it straight after London, which is probably why I hated it.
Since I've missed the first two of my planned 10ks my next race is Blaydon Races on 9th June - my favouite race of the year, mainly because we all get hammered afterwards.
Minks - "Do you do them every week or on alternate weeks"?
Don't have a hard & fast rule, but generally might do consecutive weeks, then cut back on 3rd week. So, in, say, a 16 week plan, I might divide the first 12 weeks into 4 blocks of 3 weeks, with a 20(+) twice in each block, then the final long one at the end of week 13, giving 9 x 20(+) runs prior to a 3 weeks taper. I also concur with Minni, in that I like to be "marathon training ready", so may do a couple of 20's in the 2 months prior to the main plan. Your modus-operandi & the date of your goal may fit here i.e. a couple of long ones before your Christmas downtime, then hit your own plan. Fwiw, your "tweaks" are clearly necessary to fit your life, so I wouldn't get too hung up on strictly adhering to a particular plan; but using one to base your own schedule on is the way to go (and you have already said you're very good at following a schedule).
Thanks Birch. Looking at my previous plans, I think I've been too conservative at the start as I usually come in to a schedule fairly "marathon training ready" as you put it. I seem to spend 4-5 weeks pussy-footing around with 10-14 mile long runs which is the sort of distance I usually do when I'm not marathon training, so probably makes more sense to start a bit more ambitiously. Having said that, my marathon training normally starts straight after Christmas when I might have had a week or so off, so it's quite nice to ease in gradually ... maybe not for 4 weeks though!
I usually do two hard weeks followed by an easier one; this time around I did 3 hard weeks followed by an easier one and actually this meant that I had only one hard week after an easy week before the taper so I made that a hard week as well (in hindsight a mistake, perhaps). Given that I now realise I never really do any 'easy' sessions (everything is at a hard to moderate pace) I wonder if I was a bit burned out by the time London came around and hence picked up the virus when I had gone all winter without being ill (apart from a serious cough which resulted in torn intercostal muscles ... which I ignored and trained through ... hard core, me
)
Minni, isn't there a song about Blaydon Races (and I believe it was on the 9th June, eighteen hundred and sixty-two on a summer's afternoon ...
)
Ant - still sticking to my view that it makes sense to do most of the training on the surface you are going to race on, but no I didn't know that about Mo and the Brownlees. There again I didn't know that they had all done marathon races (have they?) so what do I know!!!
For VLM I did as little running on the road as was possible given weather conditions. The majority was on soft trails or soft treadmills, with roads used for the occassional pacy LSR and some recovery runs. No fast sessions from me on the tarmac. That was driven mainly by my obsession with minimising impact injury risk. I am feeling a bit better now after the 27miles down the A4
I thought the Brownlees did all their running fuelled on Yorkshire grit up near vertical cliff faces like the Chevin and Ilkley moor
Would echo the views re Edin course. It's dull but quick if you can focus and the weather behaves. unlike most on here I'd pick it over the fancy dress noisy shenanigans of VLM every time
good sessions from AR and Ant. And OO. Still banging them out inyour 6th decade;-) My 800s came out av 5.35 pace yesterday. Maybe there's still some chance of a decent HM this summer....
Glad you have all made Minks welcome and like you did with me, been free with the advice! Especially pointing out that she's a relative spring chick compared to some of us on here!
have thoroughly enjoyed reading the posts and reliving some of the advice you gave me last year! Stick around Minks - a new PB will be there for the taking!
Just been out for first post marathon run. 4 miles easy but felt surprisingly comfortable and ran a lot faster than intended. Must temper the enthusiasm!
Did I see a new target race list somewhere?
I'm doing the Blaydon races too
Crikey, it's busy on here today. There hasn't been this much activity and comment since Ant posted the picture of himself in the bath!
Minks - PMJ's suggestion re using the Garmin to help prevent you from getting lost is a good one. If I'm away from home I quite often end up doing an out and back route and use the Garmin as a comfort blanket in case I miss a turn or a path when off road. Well worth investing in a head torch for winter training in the dark - I can never get why non-runners can't understand the appeal of running in the dark, cold and the rain / snow / mud!
Oh Lorenzo, did you have to remind us? Just started sleeping at nights. Will be back to square one again!!!
No races booked up yet apart from a localish 10k series. I've identified one or two road 10k's to do now and have the green light to spend spend spend.
Trip to the physio this week to try and identify once and for all why my left leg feels like it belongs to a 21 year old, and my right is continually tight from hamstrings down to achilles. It's not been anything major - a bit of warming up / stretching and things clear up, but it has been that way now since last September
Nothing obvious when examined so he focused on running form this time. I was videod from behind, and the side, and ran over pressure pads. Lots of angles drawn on the screen etc. I have a really wierd action with my right leg which seems to cause a lot of stress on the inner knee. I also overstride quite a bit compounding things, but overall he thought most of the elements were well in place. A few minor changes and re-videod and things looked a lot better even though it all felt a bit alien.
So now need to focus on my running form, and put the L plates back on.
AR- did I just read you ran 27 miles or are you referring to past madness?
21 miles for me tonight (on the bike).
My running goals for this Autumn are,
Abingdon sub 3!!! and I may enter the Maidenhead HM. If training goes well it would be nice to have a stab at sub 80, 'Only' 48 secs to find.
I'd best get my arse into gear and do some proper running.
moof - past madness.
ooh - a Maidenhead smackdown with moof
Moof - I'll be delighted with sub 3:10 at Abingdon. I'm also looking at Maidenhead. Looking for inside 87 mins.
I need to think about some other races. I'd like to do one hard per month. Shall take a look at events later.
Lorenzo/Moof - It was the activity in the bath that got people all hot and bothered...
AR - I assumed you hadn't done that again! That was the failed shopping excursion wasn't it?
Maidenhead - you can have a drink waiting for me when I finish!
Welcome Minks
5m tempo for me last night came out for me around 2 minutes slower than normal. My ankles swelled up on the flight to Japan, its hot and humid and very windy here so it seems somewhat explainable. I spent some of the evening learning the words for Shozoloza to sing at the start of the Comrades and then the dreams have started - they are all positive so far. I'm mostly concerned about remembering the sticky tape to avoid the stigmata look.
Busy indeed.
Some nice post marathon pacey sessions.
Another long day, so due to slight rain I went out for an 8pm run on empty roads. Perfect conditions and 8 miles in 61 minutes done. Left glute still not perfect.
Yes that's the one Minks.
OO - are you doing George Ogle at the end of the month? I've got it on my list but will see how the running goes next week.
DS - we're still waiting got your post marathon bath photo!
AR - how are you going to concentrate on form? Are you going to try to change your running style?
AR, the hamstring and general leg tightness you describe sounds similar to what I had last year. The problem was actually a tilted pelvis which was causing immobility in my lower back and ended ultimately in a locked sacroiliac joint which forced me to pull out of VLM 2012 5 weeks before the race. I would highly recommend seeing a chiropractor or osteopath. I always thought my tight hamstring issues were down to my failure to stretch after most of my runs, but it turned out that had little to do with it. After a few sessions and some wonderful cracking, I felt like a new woman and have had no problems since. Obviously your problem may not be back-related but I'd say it's definitely worth exploring the possibility.
DS2 - yes, thanks for referring me to this thread (although I'm sure everyone's probably sick of me already!)
Lorenzo, I don't mind at all running in the dark/cold/wet/sleet/snow/ice (!) but I'm not keen on running alone offroad in the pitch black, even with a head torch. I'm not sure my husband would be that keen on me doing that either. To be honest I'd probably be more fearful of turning my ankle in a hole or tripping over a tree root (which I do in broad daylight so God knows what damage I'd do to myself in the dark) than of being attacked or getting lost, but I will probably stick to lit roads when it's dark. Saying that, the pavements round here are such a disgrace that I'd probably be just as likely to go A over T as I would doing an offroad run. And don't get me started on the erratic nature of our street lighting ...
Minni - its a bit dull to be honest. I'm trying to plant my right leg a couple of inches further to the right - it currently lands almost centre line (as if I'm some cat walk model) - my inner knee becomes a crumple zone! The suggestion was that it is due to some inflexibility and months of overcompensating. So its mainly continued stretching of my dodgy leg and consciously thinking about planting my foot out wider. I'm good for 100m
In addition to that I had some general 'style' recommendations trying to land below hips rather than over extending, slightly more pronounced lean forward blah blah blah. I guess he doesn't like heel strikers. At the moment things feel far from natural
Moof - I would put the Maidenhead course as being quicker than Reading, so a sub 80min sounds on. Just listen to your physio as you did before Reading
. Not sure if I will do it yet (I will make sure there is a drink for DS2). I'm thinking of doin the Robin Hood Half for a bit of variety as my folks are near there.
Edit: Minks - The sports clinic I use has previously done a bit on my lower back / pelvis. There is nothing too wrong there. If the 'form' bit doesn't help, then the suggestion was to do more work on the hips and higher up. I sound like a Cash Cow, but actually I hadn't been back throughout VLM training.
AR - it doesn't seem that problem has caused you much of a problem judging by a 2:47 marathon!!! I have a similar problem caused by years of playing hockey and running hard with a twisted body. I have had to concentrate a lot in the past to correct it so I know where you are coming from.
I like the sound of Maidenhead.
Minni - sorry. Mrs DS2 was away for the weekend so no bathtime pictures from me!!!