Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Rosie

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  • Just been catching up on your thread... seems like all's going well. Am still up for the GWR on Sat.... would love to meet up if time to say hello.... will message you....
  • Hey Simon - saw you on utube being interviewed at the end of the Kielder Marathon - "i'll be back next year" was the quote !! Great results Sunday and Tuesday (think Benno going to burst a blood vessel soon!) 
  • mcs - I hate to say it but hitting the wall at mile 20 during your first marathon is very common. It's happened to me a few times. The most common reason is lack of aerobic fitness for the distance at the speed you're running at. The main reason for this is running the LSR runs too fast in training. Do another marathon and it will get easier. re: solid foods, if I'm jogging rather than racing a marathon I will often eat a mars bar or a snickers bar at mile 15.
  • Hey mcs - echoing Spoons except I've not (yet) experienced hitting the wall but then I walked during every LSR in mara training to keep my HR down (still got round under 4 hours so it didn't hurt my training to walk).  I had a snack size mars bar at 20 miles but not sure whether you can have those or if they contain gluten??? Not sure I could eat a full one!

    Enjoy the GWR peeps - I entered it last year but due to snow had to miss it as was late arriving after a nightmare down the A9.  I'm not missing that side of Scottish Winter racing I'm afraid! Hope the weather is being kinder to you this year!

     Anyone fancy giving me a hand with my cross training this morning? Moving 500kg of logs from drive to log store.... No?  Strange that LOL (Even hubby's gotten out of it! Some excuse about being away for 8 weeks hahahaha - don't worry I'll save him some jobs for when he gets back)

  • Interesting point about walking in LSR sleepy I am using the HR in the LSR this year to make me go slower, I defo ran too fast last time I was doing 15 plus miles in training.............snicker bars okay.......mini mars contain gluten strangely but not large Mars bars................ Sam says she just uses the drinks but I found they repeat on me when running. Okay before but not during.

    I ll pop down and help you shift logs, though abit weary as the gales up here last night were awesome, trees down and a mess everywhere so not much sleep.

  • shaggy t wrote (see)

    Hi Rosie  - did the overall run end up at nearly 13 miles or 7 miles in total. ?

    Just looking at how it was written it looked like a 7 mile run to me, but your post made me think you did nearer the 13 mark.no problem either way, and only asking out of curiosity image
    Well spotted Shaggy t. I wondered about this too! Knowing what a mileage freak you are, Rosie, I can't help suspecting you did 7 miles easy as a 'warm up' when the session was actually 7 miles in total. Come on, you can tell us!! Like I said, after the GWR, we'll have a chat about your mileage and pacing and perhaps make some adjustments.
  • SamMurphyRuns wrote (see)
    shaggy t wrote (see)
    Hi Rosie  - did the overall run end up at nearly 13 miles or 7 miles in total. ?Just looking at how it was written it looked like a 7 mile run to me, but your post made me think you did nearer the 13 mark.no problem either way, and only asking out of curiosity image
    Well spotted Shaggy t. I wondered about this too! Knowing what a mileage freak you are, Rosie, I can't help suspecting you did 7 miles easy as a 'warm up' when the session was actually 7 miles in total. Come on, you can tell us!! Like I said, after the GWR, we'll have a chat about your mileage and pacing and perhaps make some adjustments.


    Ha! Ok, confession time it is. (And I'm mildly concerned you guys can figure me out so well already), I did misread that as being a 7mile warm up, so did around 13 miles in total. I am willing to accept this may have been a [subconscious] deliberate misereading. Ooops! Well, it was fun anyway.. While I'm at this fessing up business I should admit to having done exactly the same for today too, so my 1M warm up was accidentally 4M today, instead of 4M total. I've had a word with my brain and this should not occur again image 

     So, to Day 3, week 2, Wednesday. The plan was: 6M (55 mins) slow. 

    I did: 6M @ 9min mile pace. How slow should slow be? I find running slower than 9-9.15min/mile I get cold if running outside, (I am a wimp and seem to get cold easily) and it feels a bit weird. Probably didn't help that due to other committments I ran it at 0530, and it was dark and freezing, so brisk felt preferable to slow.

    Today, week 2, day 4, Thursday. The plan was: 4M of 1M jog, then 2M (approx 15 mins) brisk, then 1M jog (try to do this on flat, even surface)

    There are further confessions relating to the warm up today. On entering the park I overtook* the US cross country team who looked like they were off to scope out the course for Saturday, and instantly wanting to see the start area for the GWR which is just before the international cross country, my warm up was a 4M lap and a bit of Holyrood Park, so the course for Saturday plus a bit... I admit this is stretching the definition of flat and even imageimage. The jogging part I'm also struggling to get the hang of. I did this warm up at between 9-8min/mile pace, can that be described as jogging?

    The 2M brisk then went a bit more to plan. I ran it on the flat area by the palace, according to garmin average pace for these was 6:58. Actually, is that too fast for brisk? ... I really need to practice pacing!, then 1M jog home (went over Salisbury crags through Hunter's Bog for this part, so, if you know the area, again pushing the definition of 'flat').

    Hmm. I need to try harder at following instructions??

    Tomorrow is NO RUNNING day. image


    *this feat is not nearly as impressive as it sounds, they were walking at the time  

  • RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)

    Many congratulations on your selection! My name is Ruth, the Pro Team Dietitian. I am really looking forward to following your journey to Paris. You certainly have motivation and will power!

    I will only be on your thread a couple of times per week  but I will do my very  best to answer all questions!


    Hi Ruth! Great to see you on here.

    Diet is a problem area for me, I seem to be very bad at making time to eat and on reflection a large proprtion of my calorific intake comes from sports drinks consumed on the go.. I know all the refined sugar isn't ideal but if I stop them I lose weight (wouldn't hurt to lose a bit, but my BMI isn't over, so I don't need to lose loads, and when I stopped them a few years ago I did get underweight and fatigued quite quickly). Any ideas on a better way to go about things? I often start the day ok, but then as the day goes on it goes to pieces.. Thanks!

  • Hi Rosie,

    sounds good so far. Don't forget the preventative core exercises and stretches we went through at boot camp.

    See you in a few weeks for an mot.

    Sarah

  • sarah asics pro team wrote (see)

    Hi Rosie,

    sounds good so far. Don't forget the preventative core exercises and stretches we went through at boot camp.See you in a few weeks for an mot.Sarah
    Thanks Sarah! image
  • I love food but having daughters who enjoy cooking I am lucky to get too much food. Eat well Rosie it's fuel!
  • Rosie A wrote (see)
    Tomorrow is NO RUNNING day. image
    Good luck with this - I feel it's probably where you need our support most! image
  • Can I have some of your get up and go - mine got up and went!image

    Cheeky - 8-9 mins miles is not jogging it is my 10k pace - very speedy it is too!

    Have a good weekend lovely - wish I could loose some weight that easily! Can't stop eating at the moment!

  • Weeble. wrote (see)
    Rosie A wrote (see)
    Tomorrow is NO RUNNING day. image
    Good luck with this - I feel it's probably where you need our support most! image


    Thanks Weebleimage.

    I think you're right. It's only 35minutes in and I'm struggling!

    [Needless to say I don't even normally run at this time, well, not usually, though it has been known.. ]

    Only 23 hours 25 minutes to go..

  • Hey Emma - hope you have a lovely weekend too. image

    mcs - that's great that your daughters like cooking. I need someone like that!  Dug is very interested in food, though not particularly in the cooking side of things..

  • I love cooking Rosie ... Well baking and making puds. You'll have to come and stay on sunny Sussex!

    What do folks think of compression socks for recovery ... My calves are more sore since starting program. Think I might be running slightly differently as I am running slightly faster?!
  • Rosie - I do think your compulsory no runday will be one of the most important aspects of your schedule and lead to a great time in Paris - once read that its not when you train that you get the benefit of a session but during the recovery period as the fitness benefit is absorbed into the body and after rest you are stronger to go next time - so rest today and just think how good you'll be on tomorrow's run !!

    Oh and eat, eat, eat - good balanced diet of carbs, protein and fruit/veg and plenty of it

  • EmmaC wrote (see)
    I love cooking Rosie ... Well baking and making puds. You'll have to come and stay on sunny Sussex! What do folks think of compression socks for recovery ... My calves are more sore since starting program. Think I might be running slightly differently as I am running slightly faster?!


    Aw, thanks!!

    I use compression gear quite a bit as having had burns it can be really useful, but haven't really tried the socks. I have some lower leg compression things I've never used though (got them free when buying compression tops). They are the skins calf-tight ones in a small. Let me know if you could use them and will post them.

  • Morning 'all!

    Rosie - I could gaffer tape you to a chair if that'll help!  Interesting stat for you that might help you decide a bit of rest is good for you... I do a Polar Tit Test once a month (it gives you a reading based on HR variability which somehow equates to your VO2 max). From January to August last year it was fairly static and then in September it dropped by a point.  I knew I was feeling a bit tired which it reflected so I decided to take a 12 week break from doing intervals. My score rose again month on month and it is now 4 points higher than it was all year which I'm taking to mean that my body has now absorbed the benefits of the training.  I'm starting my Intervals again next week but even know I feel a whole lot stronger! Rest could be the difference between getting your PB and missing it by a few seconds - you know we're grounding you for your own good!!! LOL

    mcs - Can't remember who it was who told me about the walking thing - some marathon guru (probably in RW) who encouraged walking for 5 minutes in every hour of a long run (ie run 55, walk 5minutes, repeat!) Logs are done hurrah - you must have helped me using the power of your mind - took just under an hour and I don't even ache today - bonus! Gonna have a lovely fire tonight and get all cosy!

    Emma - I had some 2XU recovery socks which my hubby has now nicked because I've been singing their praises so much.  They have to be the right size/tricky to get on I believe to be of any help.  I found they helped eased major cramping after hard sessions to virtually nothing. (And yes I was probably trying too hard during the session which was why my calves were suffering so much! Slower/longer recoveries needed??)

    Taking Chrimbo decs down today - booooooooooooo followed by an upper body workout (raking yet more leaves - hopefully the lastbin full!!) Have a good day all - will look forward to reading about it later image

  • SB - your experience with the test is a great example and lesson which supports the assertion that to improve we all have to train SMARTER and not just more/harder - it has taken me a long time (stubborn/stupid??) for this principle to sink in and your feedback confirms to me once again that the more effort you put in to planning your schedules in a smart way (and then of course to adhere to them!!) with rest and recovery periods included amongst the harder sessions at the right pace etc the better the performance.

    Not sure about the name of the Polar ... test though !!!!!

    Rosie - hope you are resting??

  • Wow, this resting stuff is hard...
  • Better late than never, but congratulations on getting through to the final five. Was good to meet you at Boot Camp.

    Hope the trainings going well. Looking forward to reading about your progress over the next few months.

    Tom

  • Rosie, you are quite a conundrum. The times you are running would indicate to  me that you are more than capable of running considerably FASTER than sub 3.30, and yet despite having done a lot of marathons, you haven't achieved this. I can only guess that this is because you are in a constant state of low level fatigue and are therefore not performing to your potential when it comes to your key races (not helped by living on sports drinks, methinks... Ruth  - help her! )

    I can see you are finding it hard to take rest days but as everyone on here has stressed, rest is when the body gets fitter. Training is basically about breaking the body down. You give the body a stress that puts it outside its comfort zone. It then as to go 'oh blimey, better make some changes so I can cope with this next time round.' BUT. a) the stress has to be just right - not too much and not too often (or too little, and not often enough but don't think that's an issue for you!) and b) you have to BUILD IN rest, as this is when those changes or 'adaptations' take place.

    OK that's the telling off finished!image

    So looking ahead to week 3. This is slightly provisional, as I've said that we'll review Rosie's paces, based on her 5km race result on Sunday.

    Week Three w/c 9/1/12  (35M)
    Mon Rest (+ strength training)
    Tue 7M CONSISTING OF 1M jog, then 4 x 1M (or 7 mins) fast, with 400m (3-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
    Wed 7M  slow
    Thu 4M steady
    Fri Rest (+ strength training) COMPULSORY NO RUN DAY!
    Sat 4M easy
    Sun 13M easy (I recommend trying out sports drink or gels on these longer long runs)

    The only difference in Rosie's prog compared to the sub 3.30 schedule is that the 13 mile run is an 'easy' rather than a LSR. And I don't think anyone else needs to be told to have a 'compulsory no running day' image

  • Rosie- You're meant to leading by example! How can I keep up with your speeds/miles!!!  I want a 3.30 marathon but no where as fit as you at the mo.But I am also laughing my head off.

    Hope you have a good rest day tomorrow, go in the kitchen and bake some cakes ect when ever you think of running. A picture of them would be nice to see.

    It will be nice to see what Ruth recommends for fuel.

  • On the subject of training smarter rather than harder has anyone read Charlie Speddings autobiography? He sat in the pub at a low ebb and decided he couldn't train harder, but he could train perfectly, which he decided to do. His mantra was to leave each session not being able to say "that was hard" but "that was perfect" a a good way to look at it I think. Also it proves all good distance runners enjoy a beer which is good news!
  • Aha! Cakes! Amazing plan Gazelle. I'm normally rubbish at finding time to bake, but this could work well. I've scheduled them in for the next rest day..

    Thanks everyone for the encouragement to rest. I think being sick last week had lulled me into a false sense of how easy the rest day would be...Being in hospital my trainers weren't sitting staring at me begging me to take them for a wee jaunt round the park. Definitely took more self control than I'd expected. I may yet need that gaffa tape, Sleepy Bear! Though yesterday I tried just heading out on the bike instead. Had hoped to swim but my arm still has a michelin man style dressing on after the cellulitis last week (it got a bit broken down and nasty, so will be a few weeks yet till I can swim I think). Looking forward to getting it off now! Bike was fun, but glad it's another week until the next NO RUNNING day.

    Oh dear, sorry about being a conundrum, Sam image. I seem to be very bad at consistently going faster - it's fine in training for shorter periods but on long runs I tend to switch off (I enjoy them way too much and seem to mentally dissociate off somewhere else and not focus..I lose track of time totally sometimes) so reproducing training times in races is a real challenge for me. Am going to try to stay awake for this 5K this morning though. Just off to walk Dug round the course before the start!  

    Is anyone else racing this weekend?

  • Choisty wrote (see)
    On the subject of training smarter rather than harder has anyone read Charlie Speddings autobiography? He sat in the pub at a low ebb and decided he couldn't train harder, but he could train perfectly, which he decided to do. His mantra was to leave each session not being able to say "that was hard" but "that was perfect" a a good way to look at it I think. Also it proves all good distance runners enjoy a beer which is good news!

    Liking that image, sounds like one I need to read, thanks Choisty

  • oscarr -  oops hahahahahahahahah that should've been Fit!

    Thanks Choisty - sounds like a good read - will add it to my pile!

    Rosie - have a good 'un today. Will look forward to hearing about it!  I've got  a xc tomorrow.  Apparently it's the shortest one of the league - about 5 miles so should be a quickie.  A couple of streams to paddle in too so I hear.  Not sure how I feel about those  LOL

    Go get em girl! image

  • Rosie A wrote (see)
    Choisty wrote (see)
    On the subject of training smarter rather than harder has anyone read Charlie Speddings autobiography? He sat in the pub at a low ebb and decided he couldn't train harder, but he could train perfectly, which he decided to do. His mantra was to leave each session not being able to say "that was hard" but "that was perfect" a a good way to look at it I think. Also it proves all good distance runners enjoy a beer which is good news!

    Liking that image, sounds like one I need to read, thanks Choisty

    Hey Choisty, good to see you on this thread.  I read Charlie's book last year as we used to run against each other at school XC races (Barnard Castle vs Durham) many, many years ago.  It was an excellant read.  Why don't you email him with your comments - I did and got a lovely reply from him.  Thinking about the point you made above I remember that it was one of the main points he makes and yet it still didn't get through to me as to how to train smarter - I think there is something in most of us that says "the more effort we put in the more reward we will get" so it takes a lot to change that mentality to a smarter one - it's obviously worth working at as it made Charlie an Olympic athlete and your coach Steve made the point on KB's thread that it's good to feel you could do a little more at the end of a training session to know it's been done right. 
  • Good luck for the xc tomorrow sleepy bear. I've just been watching the international races in Holyrood Park: amazing!

    So, the GWR race this morning - 22:40. Gender position: 9th, 148th overall http://www.greatrun.org/Results/default.aspx?r=240&bib=697#

    My average paces for the mile splits reflect the crazy hill (elevation of 309 according to garmin) and the wind the first mile and a bit..

    Mile 1: 08:08

    Mile 2: 07:21

    Mile 3: 06:05

    Mile 4: 06:11  

    So, ok, sortof..? I felt fine finishing, but then immediately mildly sheepish as was a bit too fine and should have tried a bit harder? Timewise it's 23s slower than the last time I raced that course (2009), but I've been telling myself I'm loads less fit than I was then, which I clearly need to stop telling myself now, and just get on with training!

     11M slow tomorrow, Yey!! image

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