• (fat buddah and I have debated about this toipic for a while...)


    No one seems to have addressed what was occuring when this all began, and if it is genuinely PF (I know fat buddah, you did also mention this).

    What were you doing when this all started? What was your training regime?  Had it changed in any way - distance, time, terrain? Had you changed your footwear and what were you using? Where exactly is your pain? What exactly are your symptoms?

    That'll do to start with.

    Ablefeet image


  • AF - you will be pleased to know (but you can probably surmise from my last post) that my PF appears to have now gone and I don't get post run pain (following morning) discomfort.  I can get out of bed, put my foot down, and walk normally - well as normally for an old bugger anyway!

    I don't feel "cured" yet and I'm still cautious and doing stretches, wearing FitFlops etc as I really don't want it to return. and I really think that switching to Hoka One Ones to run in has made huge difference as the super deep cushioned sole lessens any heel impact and they do tend to make your run more midfoot.   they have a zero drop, although you wouldn't think that looking at them.

  • FB - in all seriousness, that's superb news. That doesn't mean that I agree with the minimalist/zero drop approach, but as we all know - what works for one person, doesn't necessarily work for another.  The same goes for FitFlops - in theory they shouldn't work, but I have far too many patients (with various ailments) who all swear by them.

    Which Hoka One One's are you using as not all of them are a zero drop?

    Ablefeet image

  • AF - after my "discussion" with you about going forefoot, and my limited attempts, I abandoned the idea - it killed my calves.  I was expecting some discomfort but not 3 days worth after one run!  hey ho - had to try....

    I then read a few reports and blogs about runners who had had PF and/or orthotics, finding Hokas "cured" their issues - maybe it's the deep cushioning?  I dunno but I thought it was worth a try.   getting hold of a pair was hard - stock of them is as rare as rocking horse crap - and the only ones I could get in my size were the Stinson Evos which are essentially an off road shoe.

    you're right - it's not a zero drop but 6mm - which to me is zero after years in Nimbus and Cumulus.  and I do find that I feel more midfoot in them although there are still signs of heel wear but more towards the sides than the back of the heel which would indicate that I'm not heelstriking as heavily.  whether that's the shoes or my subconscious making that change I'm not sure!

    the downside of the Stinsons being an offroad shoe is that the sole wear is getting marked now - they aren't designed for tarmac pounding - so next purchase when I can get hold of some will be the Tarmac versions as hopefully they'll wear better.

    fingers crossed it continues this way!


  • Hi, just read all your comments with interest, been suffering with PF since June, and i have done all the above, stretching, icing, injections etc! the bottom line is there is no cure and this condition can become very depressing.A lot of things like insoles and the strasbourg sock etc are gimmicks really, it's defo related to calfs so stretching them should help in the long run. I'm going to go down the minimalistic route with my inov8's..3mm heel to toe drop. The prob all started when i joined tri club and went from plodding around to doing some serious HIT training and then ignored prob! If only i could turn back the clock! I am now seriously thinking of giving up running and triathlon, which makes me feel gutted! Also has anyone tried trigger point therapy? bascailly its like an intense massage directed at certain spots, may work for you, nothing worked for me. image

  • Hi Darren,I do feel for you,mine also started in June and like you I ignored it,was even told by a very experienced runner that if I ever got a sign of PF treat it immediately!! I thought Ill be different!! How stupid.. Able Feet to answer your question,I started this thread as I wondered if I could still marathon train after it first really stopped me in my tracks,thinking it would clear up in a week or so!! Mine started in June very slight,kept running and was always ok,ramped it up in August for half marathon mid oct going for a PB ! 5 runs a week,1 day speed session as well as a 21min 5k every week.. On top of this I worked 3/4 days per week evenings on my feet sometimes 5/6 miles on hard floors.. The running was still ok but by Sep walking at work hurt(out of 40 of us there,8 have pf!) Had it strapped for half and it felt fine,started off,doing well,fast,mile 5 pain so bad it stopped me in my tracks,couldnt walk for 2/3 days and had it diagnosed as bad flare up of PF.. Somedays I still limp all day,other days its fine,was getting better then I started running last week only 2/3 miles and now back again.. I run mid foot and I have run a lot this year in racing flats.. I hate the feel of big padded trainers,as I feel trapped and am now too trying the barefoot route,have got some vivos but they kill me at the moment,walking barefoot as much as poss too.. However Fat B, today while I was out I found some Fit flop shoes in sale! Felt great when I tried them so got them for work! I will listen now and stop running and hopefully it may get a little better.. Icing morning and evening really helps Darren,immerse foot in full bucked/basin freezing water 10mins,try twice a day and last week before I stupidly ran a 5k on Sat the barefoot walking in the house really helped,but not enough clearly! Thanks FB for taking the time to give me suggestions,it does help to know that other people have had it as badly as me and that it will go(I hope!)Guess Reading half is out of the question...!!

  • Darren Kelly 7 wrote (see)

    A lot of things like insoles and the strasbourg sock etc are gimmicks really,

    I would have to whole heartedly disagree with you here.  With over a decade of experience in treating patients with true PF, orthotics are a great adddition to the treatment programme.  If the reason for your PF is due to a biomechanical insufficiency, causing an increased load through the insertion of the PF into the medial tubercle of the calcaneum, then you should get some benefit from using orthoses. 

    Darren, the problem you have is, as you've already admitted to above, is that you've gone from being a plodder to joining a tri club and going "too hard, too soon".  Don't go down the minimalist route - all you changed was your training programme not the way you actually run! You don't have to give up running, but be realistic as to your recovery programme.  You are in the fortunate position, unlike alot of patients that I see, that you know the exact cause /  reason for your problem.

    Ablefeet image

  • Hi mate, the prob with this is that there are loads of opinions and you can end up getting a bit confused by it all! I've tried the buckets of ice at the very start of my treatment and it didn't really do much to be honest! I spoke to someone who had it and they ran thru it and it went, my father had it for a year and then one day it just went and that was without treatment, the prob with us athletes and sporty people is we want a quick fix!
  • Darren, you have just answered your own question.

    But in fairness, if you want help, where are you based?

    Ablefeet image

  • NEWY,

    You can still marathon train.......but after you've gone through the rehab process.  As has been said already by other posters, you can keep your CV fitness up by doing things like swimming/cycling etc.  Now I am fully aware that you have to " get the miles in your legs" for the marathon, but the marathon isn't until 21/4/13, so you have plenty of time to train, incorporating a full rehab programme.

    By the look of what you've said above, you do ALOT! Not only with your running 5 runs a week, but also with a heavy work load - with a problematic painful heel. You're not going to like this but you need some rest!!!!! The VLM will still be there next year. You may feel bad, but in the long term, your health is the most important thing.

    Ablefeet image

  • Newy - Hi I was just flicking thru the RW threads and I found this one. Well during my mara training at the begining of this year I got PF in my left heel. It would be my 4th mara, and whilst building up my lsr's the heel pain became too much after my 1st 20miler at he end of Feb. I did the stretches, and using tennis ball on sole of foot every day, and even had one at my desk at work. But even with those and resting it always came back and couldn't run further than 14m, and only if I took paracetomol before my runs.

    I still ran the mara, again dosed up on pain relief, but afterwards decided that as I wasn't running an Autumn mara this year, decided to try and sort it out. I decided to go down the barefoot/forefoot style of running. Starting with just 1-2m to start, and slowly building up. Because most barefoot type shoes are normally 0-4mm drop (heel to toe difference) the calfs and Achilles take a pounding. Also you have to change your whole running style, more upright, higher cadance etc, you feel like you're starting running again. Well I now do all my runs in them, and my lsr's are upto 12m and my speed is upto previous levels, BUT the best bit is no PF pain atall. I bought a pair of Vivobarefoot Ultras which are great, and I'm now after some trail shoes also. I've entered Manchester mara at end of Apr2013, which will be my 1st minimalist mara.

    Barefoot/forefoot style running maybe not for everyone, but a relatively cheap option that could cure your PF problem, but it's not a short term fix. You'll need a good 6mnths to slowly build up your runs, in length and pace. Ps I'm 50 so you're not too old to learn new tricks as they say.
  • What u need is a podiatrist.  Contact the Institute of Chiropodists & Podiatrists who wil recommend an experienced practitioner for proper advice......  maybe ask for Martin Harvey?

  • ps..... they have a website are headquarters are in Southport.

  • Hi, im based near Peterborough, if and when im fixed the minimalist route I think is the answer as before with big heeled trainers I was defo heel striking! I have specail insoles in my work shoes but they are not a cure, with the advice I've taken over the last 6 months on various 'cures' I've ended up spending a fortune so apologies if im sceptical willing to listen and take further advice though image
  • @santa Claus....its great to hear you've got on with changing your gait, a lady at my club had PF for years, she then got a scan to pinpoint pain, then had 2 cortisone injections which helped her, she then took 6 months to re train her gait to a higher cadence and running with minimal shoes making sure her feet were under her body and bang! All sorted and she did an ironman a few months ago!
  • No-one ever mentions Trigger Point Therapy and I'm surprised as it worked for me and ridiculously quickly too, within a few weeks. After suffering on and off for  nearly 2 years it has never come back. The best thing about it is that it costs nowt!

    PM me if you want to know more. 

  • Pauline - Imagine that, there's me going down the barefoot route to get rid of PF problem, and in all the 1000's of towns in the uk, the headquarters for 'pods' , is in the town where I live, Southportimage.

  • It depends on which Podiatry professional body you're looking for. I am part of the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists which is based in central london.

  • Newy - Oh yes just one other thing, before I went down the barefoot route I found cycling really helped with the pain. If you cycle clipless you can drop your heals a bit more which stretches the calfs nicely, which is one of the recomended stretches for PF. So you can do some x-training and get a good stretch at the same time.
  • Hi Newy,

    I had terrible PF in my feet at the end of last year after walking Lands End to John o'Groats for charity.

    I rested for a month afterwards, and it went in 1 foot, but it was still severe in my left foot. I ended up having 2 injections and this cleared it up. I haven't had any issues with it since.

    I did use a nightsplint and found it helped first thing in the morning when the pain was worst. The only issue was that it stopped me from sleeping properly. 

    I saw in a recent RW article that running a golf ball under your foot and applying pressure helps, but I havent tried this out as I didnt know about this when I had it.

  • Hi everyone,a few things,what is trigger point therapy and I did cycle all wk end and it did help.. I have also rested but some days its very bad.. Anyway I MUST STOP MOANING but today I saw the doc thinking he would tell me to get lost, but he was an ex rugby player that suffered from PF!! It could be a worry that he was willing to give me a cortisone shot right there?!,but I opted for next week so that I could think about it! He said that it had bad press and that I need to break the cycle before I can move forward,he warned me that it may not work,but as far as side effects, he feels that its safe and not sure why everyone makes such a fuss about it, so who knows,I may still chicken out.. I am stretching and wearing sock and in fit flop shoes at work which help,but after driving its awful,and I limp for a while after getting out of the car but maybe thats just normal,as I cant remember what its like to put my foot down and not have pain anymore.. Anyway if I decide to give in to the drugs I shall report back!!

  • Newy......did you doc say why the injection has a bad press? I just took my doc's word that this was the treatment I needed.....I never considered that it could be bad.

  • Well people say it kills nerves etc as well as being very painful,he said the nerve bit was rubbish and yes its painful but only for a few seconds!.I have just re read Darrens post thou and realised he had a shot but it clearly didn't work.. He also said that like you I may need two shots.
  • Newy- I've never had a cortisone injection, but know several people who have had it for various aliments. But as far as I'm aware it's just a short term solution to mask pain, but doesn't solve the problem. You need to look at something else to solve the PF prob, otherwise it will just keep coming back.
  • Simon,I am trying to transition to vivo shoes at moment and have a friend that runs ultras almost barefoot(leather sandals!) He has been helping me for a while,checking my form etc,he doesnt think too much wrong apart from my overstriding when I go faster.. Trouble is I cant get on with it ever because I am not running at moment,hence I thought that if I got rid of the pain then I could really have a go at barefoot running,but yes I am aware it may only be temporary and have a week to decide what to do.. 

  • Hi, go for the injections NEWY, I did get some relief for a bit but only lasted few days, it may work for you! I've not had any damage to nerves etc. My plan now is that I've started to do very gentle runs on treadmill in my inov8 shoes,landing on mid/fore foot, only 5 mins at a time, then carry on stretching calfs out plus getting a rolling pin on calf! Similar to Trigger Point Therapy! Im still suffering a bit but its not any worse and it will take time I guess, 6 months and counting! I feel your pain believe me mate. I think I will go down vivo route once got my cadence and posture correct. I've written off next season, so that has helped my head!
  • Newy - My only concern is after the injection, which ever route you choose will feel great cus the injection will be masking any pain. But when the injection wears off, you could find yourself 3/4 months into eg barefoot style running and still with the pain, and no indication of if you are doing anything wrong, cus the injection will mask everything. Good luck anyway
  • Hi everyone,just to let you know 1 week on from injection(which was fine!) and although a little improvement,not a huge amount! So at least I have tried(he did suggest coming back in a month as it usually takes 2) Not so sure I will  bother. So after initial depression,I am going to get myself a new bike and get out on that for a while.I have decided that I poss wont be doing any of the races I wanted this year so that pressure is off(apart from all the race nos coming through the door).I have spent this xmas drinking far too much,my weight I have kept low as im not eating half the amount but I feel sluggish and awful,and Im sure its not conducisive to healing.But thats me,its all or nothing..So Happy New Year everyone,thanks for all your help and lets hope we can beat any injury in 2013..I am from today being healthy,stretching and getting back to trying to rid myself of this awful PF.. Looking at hoka shoes too,but they are difficult to get and very expensive..

  • Hi ya, try and stay positive, get on the bike! I too have written off next season due to PF and have recently got Achilles tendonitis in same foot/ankle! Gutted. So I know how you feel bud, rest and ice...lots of swimming and biking...
  • Oh no,Im sorry thats awful,I wonder if its because you kept doing small runs on the pf foot?? I met a serious runner over xmas and she had had a very bad case of pf last year,she also kept trying small runs etc.Eventually she broke her foot,had it in a cast for 6weeks and when she had it removed the pf had gone! She is back doing a lot of miles now and a year on is still ok.. She really believes its because she was forced to rest her foot completely that got rid of it for her?! So based on that I will give it a try,sounds like you will have to now..Oh well good luck,Im sure the other stuff will have its benefits and in the long term make you a better runner..

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