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Hi Jenf, I use compression socks by x-socks... But they are quite expensive - a symptom of going to running shops based in the square mile!! I think there are other brands that are much cheaper, and just as good. Sarah has mentioned More Miles to me before, but I never tried them.
I find my calves to be the most vulnerable part of my legs when I run. The compression, as well as aiding bloodflow, which is good for recover, is supposed to stop ur muscles shaking so much with each impact with the ground, and so delay fatigue, preventing the microtears that cause DOMS etc. As I said above, I have been using my one pair (see if u buy expensive ones u have to do a lot of laundry) for all my long runs, and races, and I haven't had the soreness and fatigue I used to get, so I guess they work for me, but that could be down to generally training better, not going out till 4 in the morning before a 14 mile long run, that kinda thing...
Then I have these compression stockings, which are very unflattering, but very very tight, which I squeeze on after a particularly hard session or race - they are full leg length. for example after ipswich half marathon where I really felt it in my hammys and quads 'coz of all the hills. My sister, who is a Dr, saw me using them, and verified the claims about encouraging bloodflow, saying that they give patients similar things to wear after surgery...
Fancy dress? I missed that one from the pocket rocket. Hmm, worth thinking about. Rhino costume is definitely not an option but something lightweight maybe....
Jen - thanks for the virtual dust! Great 20. If you got to 17 without feeling tired then you'e in a very good place indeed with Snowdon not too far away. Nice one!
Clive - having suffered badly at the hands of the madness in April I can recognise the signs and I'm sorry to say that you appear to have a bad case of it I remember in the weeks before GWM thinking I had no chance of keeping to 8mm pace having never ran quicker than 9mm in the past.
The day before GWM I was convinced I had no chance of keeping the pace up. I remember DS2 telling me stick to target MP and see how you are after the first 6. If you're finding it tough then back off a bit but don't start slower and try and speed up.
That allowed me to relax because I didn't have to worry in advance about whether I could hack the pace. All I had to do was roll up and give it a bash.
Now, I'm sure you know that 15 was just the gremlins playing with your mind. You know the legs need some rest and once they get it you'll be sorted. But if you can't convince yourself then don't worry - just start at target MP and see how it goes. I bet anything that after 6 miles you just keep going.
Angela - another top report! Love the sign that showed you were on the right path
Wow, a 28 week build up! I don't think I'd survive that long. I'm thinking of shortening mine even further to give me less time to pick up injuries
Anyway, great to hear that you're back running and have started on the journey to VLM!
I did 5 miles today. Stretched after mile 1 but managed the rest without needing any further stretching. As suggested by Angela I tried changing shoes - in this case from support to neutral. Good shout Angela as this could have made the difference. We'll see when I do my next one. I still had a bit of achilles/calf pain after cooling down but it wasn't too bad. Anyway I can handle afterwards, it's during that I need to sort.
Of, forgot to say - in case Tigger hasn't got to you already TR24 entries open on the 15th October.
Mr P - would be great to see you there if you fancy it. Same goes for you Jen! Tigger was talking about smaller teams this year so everyone gets more of a chance to be struck by lightning
What am I talking about? Lightning never strikes twice in the same spot - we should be fine....it'll probably snow instead.
Clive - sorry, forgot to answer your question. Hoping to do 15 at the weekend. I would love to be able to reach 18 like Sarah suggested but I'm not sure my calf issues are improving fast enough to allow for that. If I can, I'd like to do 8 midweek with some small runs in between.
How are you planning to tackle the heel pain? Will you go for any physio or stick to RICE. Are you just going for a normal taper or are you easing back more sharply to give the heel more of a break?
Jenf, just saw this article about compression socks on twitter x
Thanks Angela, good link! I have recovery skins that I put on after a hard run, and I even sleep in them sometimes, they definately help recovery/DOMs. I may get some socks to run in aswell now. But my only problem now is that it's taken me 4 years to find a sock/shoe combination that works, as i repeatedly got black toe nails. I currently have 20 pink nails! so I wonder if they do just a calf version?
my calves actually recovered better than I thought this the 20miler this weekend. I'd had a painful sports massage on friday ( he stripped the muscle) and I also worked a golf ball under sole of foot to release the plantar thingie. I ran a fairly swift 6 miles with the club last night with no twinges.
Malcs, Tigger already has my name for the TR24 next year! Come on Mr P, How about it?
Well I have given it some thought .
Still not well, I had to go to bed again last night as soon as I got in from work, dizzy and a bit nauseous. I feel like I've eaten something that's disagreed with me tbh,
Jen - yay, TR24-tastic!
Good to hear the calves have recovered. Sounds like you're taking good care of yourself - very sensible.
I've spoken to loads of people who get black nails and blisters. I've never, ever had a problem with either. I've used a variety of different shoes (bought one size bigger) but I've always used Hilly Monoskin Padded socks. They are awesome. They are quite thick to start with and they can lose a little size in the wash but they are very comfortable.
Mr P - you know you want to! I can guarantee you won't regret it.
Angela - great article!
"Additionally, there is this argument that compression socks also increase your aerodynamic shape"
That's it, I'm getting some!
Malcs, I knew there was a running related reason you keep it smooth up top! Now I know its all about the aerodynamic shape!! Do you shave your legs as well??
Surely you didn't think I was just covering for my lack of hair?
No way am I shaving me legs, what a pain in the backside that would be. I'm bad enough at shaving my face.
Hiya Jenf, I'm sure compression sleeves on ur calves will work just as well give it a go, what's the worst that can happen? I used to use skins, but I found they lost their elasticity, or maybe i just bought the wrong size. Bought them years ago in Australia before the whole compression craze had taken grip here, so its posisble the technology just wasn't as good then. Or maybe they're not supposed to last 4-5 years
Mr P you have to TR24! Mr Isherwood to be is going to bring his banana costume
Malcs I'm like you! Never had problems with toe nails, unless they get too long and spike into the neighboring toe. No black nails though- can't see how that can happen at all, but it does. I just assume that everyone it happens to doesn't wear the right size shoes...
So, I'm 'on call'. We're doing a bit regulatory filing/application and the deadline is tonight, in the states. Been working on this for a while, but I'm told by my boss this morning, that I should expect to work through the night. This is after working on it until 9:30pm last night!!! Anyways, I managed to go for my run in the morning. As promised, my 28 plan involves quite a few drills/technical work. I've been bloggin about it. the post is copied below:
This morning was a 30 minute run with a Cadence Drill; a workout taken from Jeff Galloway's book, Boston Marathon: How to QualifyThese steps are copied verbatim from the book:1. Warm up by walking 5 minutes and running and walking very gently for 10 minutes.2. Start jogging slowly for 1-2 minutes, and then time yourself for 30 seconds. During this 30 seconds count the number of times your left foot touches3. Walk around for a minute or so4. On the 2nd 30 second drill, increase the count by 1 or 25. Repeat this 3-7 more times, each time trying to increase by 1-2 additional counts.Galloway then goes on to explain how this drill will cause numerous adaptations that make you a more efficient runner, which is perfect for me! I've built up my speed, as demonstrated in my shorter races, now I need my endurance to get my desired marathon time. Part of this is increasing fitness, which is a given with any training program followed correctly, but the other, is running more efficiently. Not wasting energy. If you are a running book fiend like me, the popular 'Born to Run, by Chris McDougall' wont have escaped your notice. Whilst it is known for promoting the barefoot running movement, something I was sucked into quickly upon reading, tried it, got injured, and stuck to what I know, which is cushioning! The other important factor he talks about is running form. Many studies show that the running cadence of elite athletes is typically around 180bpm. So if they followed the above drill, they ought to get a count of 45. I did the drill 5 times, and got the following counts:42, 45, 45, 47, 48What I found when trying to increase my cadence is that my stride shortened, and a lot more of the effort came from the area around my pelvis: strong hip flexors. If we are trying to increase efficiency, surely this makes sense. It will take a while for me to explain this succinctly, but if we think of levers for a moment, in using my glutes and hip flexors to provide more energy to move my legs, I am applying a force very close to the pivot (my hip), and thus creating a greater outcome
at the other end of the lever. Essentially, the extra effort in the pelvic region is allowing me to increase the number of steps I take. If I get used to this, imagine what a difference 12 more steps every half a minute in a marathon can make (the difference between my lowest and highest cadence above multiplied by 2 to take account of the steps of my right leg).Anyways, enough of my babbling. Galloway recommends doing this drill at least once a week, although I have it in my schedule twice per week. Best to do it on an east run day, when you're not going to be bothered about stopping to walk in between the drills.Why not give it a go? Tell me how it works out for you...
Felt a bit better today but still odd. Did three gentle miles and feel ok now, hopefully will be fine tomorrow.
I understand that a little Angela, I will give it a go when I am over the marathon. I hope you don't have to work all night .
Evening all! coming down of my London high a llittle! Anyone fancy either suggesting a training plan or better still fancy mentoring me! One that is a simple and b involves lots of swimming!
On a Tr24 note....teams are coming together, well more like lists of people to be put in teams! Tonight bacon had agreed to join us, looks like we may end up with 3 teams of 5, 4 solo runners and a team of 6! oh lordy thats one hell of a campsite to secure! Entries haven't opened yet so you still have time to join us!
Angela - Interesting stuff. I have tried to measure my cadence in the past and also attempted to get to the 180 step turnover rate. It's quite hard to hit that and as you say I did really notice how it forces you to shorten stride.
Hope the all nighter went well! I assume you'll have the day off today?
Mr P - still plenty of time to recover fully. I always find I have way more energy after a cold has passed. Not long now until carbo loading
Tigger - excellent, we will need a whole field just to ourselves!
As for plans, I'm bad enough at sorting myself out let alone anyone else. I guess it depends on what you want to achieve. Do you have a target time in mind?
Think I may have to read that post on cadence drills a few times before I understand what i have to do I'm a bit slow on all technical issues! But it seemed to make sense. In fact, I've been watching some of the faster runners in my club, and had noticed they were using a much shorter/faster stride than me.
I've had no more black nails since wearing 'toe socks' which someone recommended on a thread earlier this year. Never had any blisters. My feet are happy at the moment!!
Ooo I'm so excited, next year looks as if its going to be one big party of races and weddings!!
Tigger, I've used the RW ultimate marathon plans for the last few marathons, they have a variety of finish times, and fitted my lifestyle. I may shop around, but I'm temped to stick to something I know works. However, I may still be following an ultra plan...I haven't decided what to do yet!
Hope you are feeling much better today MrP, and anyone else who has taper sniffles/aches. Bring on the carb loading, I'm planning my feast of fruit bread
Hello all, luckily I didn't have to pull an all nighter, and we got what we needed to filed. Loads of press releases this morning though, and my boss is now CEO of the new company we're forming... so I guess I report to the CEO, surely that means a payrise?!?
Sorry for the complicated post. I tried to explain it well, but my mind was a bit frazzled.. :-S I used to always shy away from training plans that had anything particularly complex in them, but I now think its worth me putting the effort in to improve my form.
Tigger, I would recommend looking at Hal Higdon's plans. A lot of my friends in the States use them, and I used Intermediate 1 for my last marathon, and it worked really well for me. Simple- all your runs are done either at easy pace, or at race pace. I've not used this particular one myself, but it involves running only 3 times per week - you could do swimming on the other days, so you train 6 days a week, and 1 day rest? http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51151/Marathon-Marathon-3-Training-Program I think the best thing is to have a look at a few of the standard plans and figure out which one fits most well with your lifestyle. For example, I would really like to try P&D- Advanced Marathoning plan, but the midweek runs get too long to be feasible with my work schedule without me getting ill and never seeing my man...
Mr P, how are you feeling today? So exciting for marathon Sunday1?!?! Go on, you know you wanna TR!!
Malcs I agree that 180 steps is a bit hard, but any improvement is worth working towards in my opinion. If these drills work great, if they don't, well its only a few minutes of my run a couple days a week...
Jenf, I am UBER excited for next year too!! I get to become Mrs Isherwood... then I visit Malc's honeymoon destination, whilst hoping the world cup isn't on at the same time... Slowly building up my marathon medal tally as well.. JOY!
Entry for this just opened for next year: http://www.svp100.co.uk/
I wanna do it... I need a voice of reason to talk me out of it...
Angela, I'm too afraid to open the above link as at the moment I'm saying yes to anything!!!!! I'd be no good as a voice of reason!
Re cadence, this afternoon I did some 800m intervals, and out of interest got someone to count my strides ( they were bored!) I consistently did 178/179 does that mean I'm up there with the elite??? lol
All been getting a bit technical in last few days
Angela- How you feeling- not too tired?? I liked the stuff re cadence. To play devils advocate, I read somewhere recently something that was kinda debunking all that stuff (much like all the fuss about barefoot), and saying that concentrating on form was more important? Whilst the elites may get to 180/minute, it is the rest of their running that is more efficient. Example- mo Farah. When he started with Alberto Salazar he said that Mo was 'too weak', as he tired at end of races and his form fell apart. Now he spends 4 hours a week in the gym concentrating on upper body strength, and you see the results. I suspect looking at your cadence is a surrogate marker of improving your stride pattern, and stopping you from 'over stretching'? Just a thought, but I did try to count my strides today but couldn't concentrate for all the traffic
Tigger- I used Greg Mcmillan Custom training plans- cost about £80 for a 16 week plan, but is completely geared around what you can do and when fits. I've used it twice, and ran 4-5 times/week. Max mileage was around 45 at very peak. They work for me, and I think the personalised bit makes a difference. Lots of different session types too, so you don't get bored, and get better fitness/adaptation as not only running at one pace. I had looked at a lot of the generic plans, and some especailly P&D are just ridiculous milage.
Malcs- hows the runnning gone this week?
Mr P- when the Carb loading start? Has the cold gone?
Jen- great running! I should have listened to you- went for cruise intervals today, as foot felt loads better with a couple of days off. 5x800m with 200m recovery, and then 3x200m. Nailed the 800m, but when I did the second 200m, the striding and initial acceleration was agony . Limping a bit now so really disheartened.
Taper madness fully engaged- feel tight in my hamstrings, and got a cough... Aaaarrgh!
cold is lingering a little, I feel as if I'm wearing a shirt with a collar that is too tight, just a bit woozy. Carbo loading will begin on Friday, I have to go to a ball tomorrow at the racecourse, which is the venue for the race! No drink, but I think it would be a bit obvious if I picked at the food, so good manners dictates that I get stuck in.
I entered two races today, the Four Villages - already a quarter full Sarah so be quick if tou want to enter it - and the Conway half. Was going to enter the Stockport 10 but it old fashioned, I will have to send a cheque tomorrow.
I think theres too much mileage in P&D too Clive, that is a shame about your foot sounds like you were going fine too. Fingers crossed for the cough.
what news Malcs? Any improvement?
Jen weve been eating banana cake all week, then on friday thenCadbury's Fruit and Nut comes out !
hi malcs, it's too late for me to enter VLM for next year now unfortunately otherwise I might have been tempted because of all the othera doing it. Will you be entering TR24 again? What size team would you aim to enter as?
Clive I think you should stop panicking. Your legs will be so tired from all the long runs, speed work and all the other runs in between making Mp feel difficult, but come the day of the marathon your legs will be rested and fresh as a daisy. Mp will not seem half as difficult.
whopp whoop fantastic 20 Jen. I always wear my compression socks and skins post run rather than during.
28 week marathon plan, wow....your certainly made of stronger stuff than me Angela !
I've suffered no end with my feet so I can sympathise with you Jen. currently I keep on developing blood blisters inbetween my toes. The gloved socks have helped ease that. So strange that I've just started with blisters here as I was wearing the same socks and trainers as 6 months ago!
im going to have to re-read your post Angela when I haven't had a drink...3 glasses of prosecco and its sounding complicated!
mr p so sorry to hear about your ilness and you still not feeling a 100% but it's good to know that your feeling a little better. Fingers crossed you will be fine for the weekend. Thankyou for the warning on the 4 villages. Will try and look into it at the weekend. Would be nice to have a weekend away in the new year to look forward to.
Clive try not to panic, it will all be fine on the day. Please can you tell me the same when I'm stressing!!
ok I can't decide pairs, team or three or a team if four for TR next year??
This week running wise I did a slow 3m recovery run on mon, tue I ended up doing 6 miles with 6x 400m (was going to do 800m but changed my mind last minute) intervals with a w/u and c/d and 9 miles today, 6 of which were at MP. Legs now tired!!
Forgot to say Jen, the plan is to still do my weights but I haven't yer done them this week!
Sarah - sorry, I meant next year's entry so 2015. As long as you don't mind running with the boys as I've already established that it's our year to get in the ballot next time
Definitely entering TR24. My lot (NIge, Claire, Alex, Alun) are entering as a team and I really fancy giving solo a go. A little bird tells me that you might not be going for the solo option?
Clive - I agree with Sarah, your legs are probably fried. I would definitely ease back on the speed now. Surely you won't see any training benefit from this now? It sounds like all your legs and heel need is some good old fashioned rest. Throw in some regular icing and lots of stretching and you'll be fine. Take it from me - one taper mentalist to another
Mr P - I love fruit and nut! Sorry to hear the cold is lingering. Have a great time at the ball. Don't forget to think about TR24 - you will be nagged until you say yes or (God forbid) no
Angela - that does look like a fantastic race. I can't possibly try and discourage you. I'm half thinking of whether I could do it too. Bit close to TR24 though which I may not survive
I'm wondering if it's the one Alun (from our TR24 team) is doing. I will find out!
I didn't run today. I did 4 miles with Mrs Malcs yesterday. The calf didn't like it two days running. Was quite sore to start. However, it does seem to improve once warm and stretched.
Was hoping to do a 6-8 tomorrow. I then have a massage booked for 2pm.
Ok cross post there Sarah so I missed your TR24 bit. So what happened to the solo idea then?
I've been shamed into a return by Malcs! Glad to see the enthusiasm carries on. Wish I could say the same for myself but, alas, not the case.
I have had another month of rest trying to get my knee fully recovered before commencing VLM training. It has been frustrating to say the least but other aspects of my life have been so busy I haven't had too much time to dwell on it. The good news is that I have sat on my bike on the TT twice this week and worked up a fine sweat without any reaction to the knee so I will give running a go at the weekend and hope I'm through it.
I will have a good read back at some point but I understand TR24 planning is up and running and Tigger is the one to liaise with. I just need to check dates around cycling events and family holidays but hope to be there.
Keep up the good work and especially those in the taper for their autumn marathons.
Yippee!! DS2 is back . You HAVE to do TR24- bring the family along
Sarah "28 week marathon plan, wow....your certainly made of stronger stuff than me Angela !"
Sarah, its all that KFC I eat... if its good enough for Bolt, its good enough for me!!
Those with injuries, I have discovered an injury curing miracle! I sometimes have an issue, which I think starts in my lower back, and can cause tightness all the way down the back of my left leg- I think this is what has caused me a calf tear in the past. Anyway, I had been struggling with it the last couple of days with a particularly tight knot in my glute, which no stretching was going to get out. I had resigned myself to waiting for it to be fixed in my sports massage next tuesday. Last night before bed I did a couple of glute stretches, but I was very cold when I got into bed, so as well as the duvet, I covered myself in a very fluffy blanket. I woke up thoroughly dehydrated (I guess due to overheating), but all the tightness in my leg had gone... I call this oven treatment- sleep in an oven overnight to cure muscular aches and pains
I did my run last night in London - more technical work, so I'll paste my blog post if you're interested: http://longroadtoboston2016.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/week-1-of-marathon-training-wednesday.html Essentially 4 and a half miles with 2 at my race pace - found the pace work hard, but I have 28 weeks, so not fretting...
Malcs, you're supposed to be talking me out of this craziness!!!! Would be good to know if Alun is doing it too?!? We could all go for a pub lunch in Dedham on the Sunday?
For those in the taper, perhaps take a look at this: http://www.running-physio.com/tapertantrum/ Clive when is your race? After a good night's sleep last night, I'm ok now- was definitely feeling rather tired, and all the screeen staring over the last week has caused my eyes to become pretty sore.
Mr P, I'm sure the sniffles will go away by race morning, but if not, I'm sure sleeping in an oven cures colds as well
DS2, I hope you have a fab run on the weekend, but remember, no heroics! Don't try to smash it, you know this... but as a runner, sometimes we need to be told by others
DS2!! Yeah! so your VLM birthday bash is you n us girlies Hope your run goes well on weekend. Look forward to hearing more from you.
Malcs I hope the massage this afternoon helps. Mine was ace last week, I've also been working a golfball under my foot every day and I definately feel that loosen things aswell.
Well I love this thread for all it teaches me, I never realized chocolate counted as carb loading!! Thanks Mr P
Sarah, I'd blame increase in speed for the toe probs, I know I don't run as a fast as you, but it was always after my speed session I developed black toe nails. But since wearing injinji toe socks I've been fine! Glad your sticking with wts, I've got a session this eve which I'm really looking forward to, you can't beat a good dead lift!
My advice to you Clive is have a massage and a large glass of wine!
Angela, you're certainly starting your training off with a bang! If you do all the programme says you will deserve that PB!