The Road to Paris - On a Plateau - Asics Target 26.2 Training



  • Hi Ady

    Some good training going down this week! Those mile reps were somewhat faster than scheduled... but I think we'll be adjusting paces. The paces for each 'type' of run were based on your recent performances over a range of distances but it seems that you must have been off form when you did these, as you have consistently outpaced yourself! Still, I'm of the opinion that it's best to err on the side of caution and then adjust up rather than down (adjusting down is a bit demotivating). I'm expecting great things from Parkrun. No pressure image

    The nutrition plan is looking good - though I did wonder about your salad-only lunch. There isn't any carbs in there - it's just salad and I wonder if this leaves you feeling a little short of energy, and tempted into that pre dinner snack?

    And now for the latest in my series of ridiculous dreams - the next night I dreamt that I did a marathon but got mixed up with what my PB was, so was elated thinking I'd smashed my PB but then realised I'd run 20 mintues slower. Again, the relief on waking up was palpable! Maybe it's my brains way of getting me out of bed these dark mornings!

    AW. I was on 800s this week, too. They are tough - I like the psychology of 600s, where you feel as if you can 'stop' halfway round the track! I dread to think how many Steve had you doing, too, track demon that he is! image


  • Ady- is the parkrun this Saturday? Good luck with it, sounds like a pb is on the cards!

    I did the Spitfire 20 last year, it's a cracking race.  I only did it as a training run- 10m easy and 10m @ target MP. Absolutely loved it.

    I would agree with Sam on the lunch issue. I couldn't possibly last until dinner on a bit of salad, especially if I were running after work. It's easier to limit your food during the day when you're at work and busy but it's false economy- you will end up starving by dinner time and overcompensate.

  • Hi Guys,

    I'm thinking about doing the Spitfire 20 as well. I will be looking to do a 20 that day anyhow so may run it as a training run. What is the course profile like?

    As for the diet thing, I'm glad I don't have to have mine scrutinised by Ruth. I eat about three times as much as you A.W.image And I never stop eating carbs!!!

  • DS2- it's undulating but no massive hills. I managed to stick to my target MP all the way around.

  • I think I will probably do this then. I'm looking for something undulating but not too hilly so that it's similar to Halstead for my marathon. Sounds idealimage

    I will probably be looking to run a fair part of it at MP like you did Brolish.

  • Ady -  Not too difficult running after nightshift, once I get going.  Thought tuesday's intervals were going to be a struggle but amazing what happens when the countdown beep goes on the Garmin. Anyway only way of getting my runs in and I rotate nights, lates and earlies so only one week in 3.  I'm Parkrunning again Saturday, first 2 I did over xmas the weather was rubbish, last weekend when I did n't run it was perfect but not looking too great this weekend.


  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Here's the profile for the Spitfire as measured by my Garmin last year:


    Just one big hill (done twice) but as Brolish says it's mostly undulating. I'm not usually a big fan of multi-lap courses (which is kinda putting me off your Dorney HM Ady) but two laps is nice and it works well for a training run if you want to do one slow and one at MP.

    Really well organised race. Parking is plentiful (on the runway). Loads of loos. Tea, coffee and bacon sarnies too. What more could you want?

    Come on Ady - get Sam to sign off on it. Would be great to see you!

    I will enter over the weekend. I have a rule about only entering one race per day and today's slot has already been taken by York image

  • (soon to be) Slim Shady - I too raised an eyebrow at the minimal amount of carbs in your diet. I know weight loss is part of the goal both overall as a final end point and to improve your race day performance...but....I wonder if Ruth could give her views on whether there's enough fuel in there for the mileage ???

    I have to say - like DS2 - my diet is fairly carb heavy with lots of bread, spuds, pasta etc. I know there's a school of thought that training when deliberately under carb'd may stimulate adaptations which stand one in good stead for race day but is such a low carb diet a good idea day after day ???


  • Shady_Ady wrote (see)

    Sarah.........Thanks. My runs have gone well so far. It's nice to feel that I have completed each one at the speed and distance I've been asked to do and, apart from the odd dodgy moment here and there, I haven't failed any.

    You have an excellent 5km time. It's hard to believe that I've been running my 400m and mile reps quicker than what you have been doing, as your 5km PB is much quicker than mine. Do you think you will go under 20 mins this year? Is this a target before your Spring Marathon?

    Were you able to maintain your speed in the last 10 miles of VLM last year? As soon as I hit the wall, my speed takes a nosedive. To maintain my second half marathon speed is going to be one of the biggest challenges I'll face as I've always been much slower (often by 10-15 mins).

    That's strange that it was Haller Park. I have a friend who once worked there as well. I met him the first time I went there and now he's working for Kenya Airways. The last time I met him in Nairobi he was an hour late meeting me. He was stuck in the middle of a shootout between police and thieves who had tried to car-jack a minibus. He talked about it so nonchalantly, as though it happens all the time. Sadly it does. I'm happy not to have found myself in a similar position while living there. I never got to feed giraffes though.....I am extremely jealous........they are my favourite animal!

    Your running has been spot on, you must be so happy with how your training is coming along. I would like to try to get sub 20 for my 5 k before VLM but we will see, its not my main aim and at the moment I feel like most of my runs are slower and longer rather than shorter and quicker, which is ideal for the marathon and what im aiming for. If I get my sub 20 it would be a nice suprise!

    My second half of VLM last year was 7 mins slower than the first half, so wasnt as bad as it could have been as I felt pretty awful by the last 4-6 miles.

    I didnt feel very safe in places in mombassa...and the roads they were just crazy. On our way back from the safari there was a big jam. Cars just decided to weave in and out of the cars and vans stuck, at the sides of the roads, behind buildings and on the wrong side of the was crazy. I loved feeding the garaffes....but it was messy!

  • /members/images/644249/Gallery/G1.jpg

    or is that just rubbing it in?

  • Shady-Ady

    Sorry I did post (or thought I did) but the answer is now underneath your questions now!

    Shady_Ady wrote (see)

    Hi Ruth,

    You could just be my knight in shining armour. If I was ever in need of nutritional information, it's probably now.

    I do think my cramps I experienced during my Parkrun were a result of the intensity I was running at (well, an intensity higher than what my body has been accustomed to!). I hope that by doing more sessions at these speeds, these symptoms will start to disappear.

    When you talk about training low in carbs, what sessions would you recommend trying this in? Is there a mileage or time limit you would recommend in trying this under. For example, I ran 'on empty' on my long run in week 1, and would like to try it again on another long run. Do you think trying it on a 14 or 15 mile run is too much?

    I'm not sure you have dealt with an 'athlete' who has a diet like me before! Up until the start of this training, I would run so I could eat whatever I wanted to. Running was a means to over-indulge in things I shouldn't and not have the normal feelings of guilt. Saying this though, in recent months, my muffin-top has expanded to just shy of disgraceful proportions. This was really brought home to me during the photo shoot at the Asics store where I tried on lycra for the first time. Honestly, if I had to where lycra every day, I'd still be a virgin and still waiting to hold a girl's hand!

    Since training has started though, I have cut out all processed food (apart from the odd pork pie had around Xmas and the 12 cocktail sausage rolls devoured on New Year's Eve - that's what happens when you choose to sit next to the buffet table!). I have cut out crisps and other unhealthy snacks. I am also planning on cutting almost completely down on alcohol consumption as well. I will still enjoy the odd drink here or there, but much more rarely compared to recent weeks.

    Alongside this, I am also cutting down on my bread consumption and desserts (which formed the basis of every lunch and the ending of every dinner) and trying to increase the amount of times I eat during the day, while cutting down on the quantity as well.


    Today I'm hoping will be the average day of eating for the duration of my training. Please feel free to offer brutally honest advice if you see any problems or issues that can be improved!

    Here it is............................


    Ruth's response:

    About training low, out of interest how did you know you where running on empty, did you go out without breakfast or did you eat little carbs the day before then out for run with little carbs at breakfast/no breakfast as well?

    I think 14-15miles is about max I would do on low carbs to push adapations and as I posted above to Barry  only do some runs like this as need to consider race day eating but it is a balance as you need to do enough to get the adaptations and I am not sure we know what that is yet! But each week at least one in a depleted state but not always on longer runs  but you need to consider how you can train low in carbs as quality session need to be just that .

    No issue with cutting out bread as long as replace it with other carbs. Sam and others have pointed out the lack of carbs already. It may be good for me to  know if when writing up food diaries if you are intending this to be a low carb day or not or is that just the way you eat most days? Are you wanting to train low for say long runs or are you wanting to do this for more. My advice is 1-2 per week at most but then you must fuel for quality sessions. I just want to be clear on what you want to do so that  can give better advice as still not sure if you are eating low in carbs on purpose some

  • Calorie Watch! Food & Drink Diary - Wednesday 9th January 2013

    Wednesday - the hump of the week. I feel like I deserve a fatty, oil-drenched slab of grease just for making it this far. Luckily my resolve held out for another day and I settled for some home-comfort food, championed by students up and down the country!

    6:50am - Breakfast; Porridge w/ honey and s/skimmed milk.

    9:00am - Cup of tea, 500ml bottle of water.

    10:00am - Handful of Louisiana Dry-Roasted Peanuts (spicyyyyyy!). One of the best things about my job is the cultural diversity of the people I work with and if I'm lucky, the types of food people bring in on special occasions! More water.

    11:00am - More water and an apple.

    12:00am - 5 mile comfortable run @8:30m/m (see above for full details).

    1:15pm - Crusty bap (or cob, depending on where you come from!) with salmon, goats cheese and cucumber. Just wish I'd made two of these as it was a tad on the small side! More water

    3:00pm - Cup of tea, water and an apple.

    6:00pm - Carrot, small amount of hummus and a handful of pistachio nuts.

    7:30pm - 1 1/2 slices wholemeal bread, beans, egg and small amount of vintage mature cheddar (the last cheese remnants from Christmas - I'm impressed it lasted this long!). I might be able to afford a bit more than beans on toast now I'm no longer a student - but it's still one of my favourite meals and I enjoy it at least once a week!

    8:00pm - Last piece of Spanish peanut nougat devoured along with 2 pints of blackcurrant squash.

    9:30pm - Green tea. Almost poured myself a whiskey an hour later to go to bed with, but decided it wouldn't be in my best interests to do so - I mean it was only Wednesday!

  • Day 25 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (10/01/13)

    Target: 4 mile jog at 9:30-10.15m/m plus 3x Acceleration strides

    Actual: 4.28 miles @ 9:26m/m including 4 mile jog and 4x Acceleration strides.

    Mile splits: 1st mile @ 9:32. 2nd mile @ 9:25. 3rd mile @ 9:24. 4th mile @ 9:30.

    The stark realization that the pungent smell of sh*t isn't coming from your surroundings, but from yourself! I don't know what it was about my run tonight, but my feet and dog faeces seemed to have as much attraction as two magnets. I knew there was a reason why I run at lunch times instead of in the darkness of evenings.

    It didn't seem to matter where I ran, my feet would somehow make me arc towards each and every pile of turd along the dimly lit suburban streets. I know we are in an economic crisis (what is it now, a triple dip recession?), but I think that some dog owners are taking advantage of the fact some places are cutting back on their streetlight use. If there's one thing I remember from my Geography degree (possibly the most expensive piece of toilet paper I'll ever own!) it's that crime increases in unlit areas. The one thing I wasn't expecting was that this crime would be animal fouling!

    I'd actually thought I'd done well for leaping over some of the dog poop I saw milli-seconds before planting my foot toes first into it. Obviously I didn't see every pile. Luckily, I didn't realise this until I got back home. I noticed just before I trod it all over the carpet and then spent half the evening in the freezing cold on the balcony with a plastic bag and newspaper attempting to clean it all off. There's nothing that can change a mood like stepping in dog doo-doo.

    Apart from this, the run was very straightforward and at a nice slow pace. I enjoy my one jog a week. Normally I find it difficult to keep to this easy pace, but today I was feeling very lethargic. It took a lot longer to get my legs working. I also resembled the Michelin Man, over compensating the coldness with layers worn. I should have really eaten something before running, but with Mrs. Shady Ady cooking dinner, I didn't want to spoil my appetite (and what an appetite I had by the time I got home!).

    The reason I did 4 acceleration strides instead of 3 wasn't because I have the counting skills of an infant. My 4 miles finished directly outside my home. Therefore I had to run an even number of times to get back there!

    So now I have a cross-training tomorrow before hopefully smashing my 5km PB of 21:45 on Saturday morning at my local Parkrun. I'd like to think I stand a very good chance, but I'm going to play the modest card and just hope I finish in under 22 mins.

    Here's my run from today:

  • Thanks for all the comments today. I've ran out of time to respond to them tonight, but will catch up tomorrow morning (one of the benefits of working a 9 day fortnight means getting every other Friday off work!).

    I'm starting to see the downfalls of my diet so far. Thanks for your suggestions. I think it's still a work in progress! Until tomorrow ..................

  • Finally the chance to catch up with the recent posts!

    Paulo83.......I'm very impressed with your stamina at attempting to read this thread through from the start. I've received far more messages than I ever expected to, and it's extremely nice to do so, as it helps keep the motivation high, knowing others are following your progress.

    I thought I'd find training a struggle to get into and would struggle at some of the training sessions, but so far that hasn't been the case. That could all change though in the upcoming weeks.

    You should have a good base into which to train for a marathon with your football playing. You should at least start with some speed - something I have been lacking in. I do think Parkruns are excellent in allowing you to see short speed progress and I don't think it would affect your long run that much, if doing it the Sunday.

    There's every possibility we'll be finishing within minutes or each other then come Paris. Have you entered any other races in build up to Paris? Good luck with your training.

    Alex.......It's actually just down the road from where live. I think it would be rude not to run it, although I will have to get approval and permission from Coach Murphy first! I did provisionally have a long off-road run planned for training that day, so it could be possible.  

    Brolish.......The Parkrun is this Saturday. Just seen the weather forecast. It looks like I'll be keeping up my 100% record of running every Parkrun in the rain. Hopefully this will make me go quicker! I know I'm setting myself up for failure and a huge fall.......but I'd be disappointed if I didn't get a new PB tomorrow. I'll have a momentous excuse if I don't!

    I definitely think I need to re-think my current eating arrangements. I am trying to cut out the carbs during the day, to hopefully increase me chances of losing weight, but I do feel extremely hungry come the evening, even with eating fruit throughout the day. It doesn't affect my running, as I'm still fine from breakfast and food the previous evening, but it's probably not the best idea to come home to an empty house with a growling stomach sounds like there's a good possibility of a good number of us all running Spitfire 20. If I do have permission to run it, then the course profile looks fun. Not much flat, which should make the time fly by when running it. Pretty countryside to run through as well. I'm still sitting on the fence to whether I like urban or rural runs the best. Today, I think I'm slightly edging towards rural!

    As I'm re-thinking my current eating habits, I might have to give your 'carb heavy' diet a try!

  • Hi Sam!

    Thanks for your approval with the training. I apologise for going faster on the mile reps. I have found myself going off faster than what's needed, but then I don't want to slow right down in the latter stages to hit my target time. As the pace hasn't been hard to keep, if anything I just find myself coasting in the final third. It's been a nice feeling knowing that I am in the final third and I'm still feeling confident of keeping my pace.

    I know it would definitely be more of a work out if I had to keep a pace under 7:00m/m and currently, harder for me to achieve. I'm interested to see if I manage this in my 5km tomorrow. Maybe it's just a mental thing as I know I've only ever done this once or twice in my life before and it's a barrier I've previously struggled with.

    I don't think I was really off-form with the times I gave you. I think it was more the fact that I was just 'plodding' along at the same slow speed on all my runs. I wasn't even contemplating speed in any of my sessions. After walking Lands End to John o'Groats and getting Plantar Fasciitis, I didn't want to rush back too quickly and for this 'injury of the devil' come back. So I decided to just take things easy last year and concentrate on a good stamina base for long distance running in 2013.

    Saying this, even I'm surprised with how well the speed sessions have gone so far. I never expected to be up to this speed so quickly. If you told me I'd be at this stage in Week 14, I'd have been blissfully happy at this news. So to be already in with a shot at a 5km tomorrow (no pressure at all!) is a position I never envisaged would be possible! Basically I'm just going to keep improving until I hear you mutter those magical words, "maybe with a strong tailwind, you do have a shot at sub 3:30!" image

    You are definitely right about needing a pre dinner snack. I do feel like a ravenous pig snuffling for truffles when I get home, looking for the healthiest option I can eat before dinner is ready. I was hoping snacking on fruit during the day would help, but it hasn't stopped the hunger. I was also trying to eat little and often, but I think I'm eating tooooooooo little! I've never been short of energy for my run, as my breakfast and mid-morning banana has been sufficient. I do think by adding carbs to my lunch will mean less need for snacking before dinner.

    I put the blame solely at your feet for a dream I had the other night. I dreamt I was hiding from kidnappers (this is a weird occurring dream I have!) and found a pack of cigars and started smoking them. Accept I didn't know how to smoke them properly so every time I inhaled I took in a mouthful of ash that I had to swallow!

    I often have similar dreams about running too. In the dreams I normally sleep in and then have to run to the race in my pyjamas and end up getting lost and never ever finish the race! I expect to have another one of these dreams now! image

  • Shady_Ady - There are, as has been said, two schools of thought on the carboloading/depletion. There is a really good summary in the P&D book about it. I have decided to keep myself well fuelled on carbs, reduce my training during the taper but keep intake up. This should then me you have greater carbs to run the marathon on.

    It's worth a read. I think the weight will come off naturally as your mileage increases. You'll probably put on a couple of pounds in the week prior to the marathon but that will help in the latter stages.

  • Sam........I forgot to ask. Is there any chance of working Spitfire 20 into my schedule at all? I think I had a provisional 2hrs 15mins off-road run that day? It is also the day after the March Training Day in Birmingham, so I don't know what pain and suffering you have planned for me then!

    Brolish/ DS2.........It seems that people have used Spitfire 20 in a variety of ways in regard to the amount (if any) that is run at MP. What are the benefits of running it all at MP. If you are coming from a lower mileage background like me, do you think attempting to run it all at MP would have more of negative effect than a positive one? I really enjoyed my one long run that Sam planned for me to run the latter stages at MP pace after a slower opening. It was good to get my legs working at a quicker speed after a slower start.

    It always seems to be increasing speed in the latter stages of a run, rather than starting off quicker and slowing down towards the end (i.e. 1st 10m @ MP, 2nd 10m @ MP+60secs). I take it this because there's not as much potential for development and progress doing it this way? Sorry if this seems a dumb question to ask!

    Barry.........Good luck on your Parkrun this weekend. For me it looks like being another wet one. No excuses though! I will definitely give my next interval session a go using my Garmin. I haven't had the experience of those countdown beeps before so hopefully they'll motivate me like they do you! It takes good discipline to run after work, especially for me when it's dark. But if it's the only way of getting the runs in, then I'd definitely take this over not running at all. I'm sure Mrs. Shady Ady would vouch how grouchy I become if I don't run for more than a day or two.

    Malcs........Thanks for the Spitfire 20 profile. It looks an interesting course and a good challenge.

    I've not run many lap races before. I've done the Kingston Breakfast run which is also two laps. I think one benefit about the Dorney Lake HM is that the laps should help me with my pacing and with it being flat, might have the potential for a new PB.

    Bacon sarnies at Spitfire 20 you say? Sign me up now. Bacon sarnies after a race (or even before) are the only times I can eat them feeling guilt free!

    Haha......Mrs. Shady Ady bans me from looking at races for a few days after running one, as I find myself signing up for several and filling my diary for the next few months. The York Marathon does look good. I have thought about this as well, especially as I have been promising a certain someone a romantic trip to York for several years now. What better way to smash that romance with a sneaky marathon!

    Fraser......Thanks for the optimism with the weight loss. I agree that I could probably do with eating more carbs at lunch. Bread might be making a quick comeback! So basically I can probably get away with eating my normal lunch, but just put it between two slice of wholemeal bread! I use to use this philosophy for dinners too!

  • Hi Sarah.............I agree that your marathon training sounds ideal with the longer and slower runs. Are you keeping to a similar training mileage as your last marathon, or are you increasing at all? Normally I'd be extremely satisfied if I was only 7 minutes slower in the second half of the marathon compared to the first half. I really hope this time around my training means and experience means I'm able to pace myself better and bring the difference down to just a few minutes.

    I know what you mean about Mombassa. It does have some very sketchy areas. The first time I went to Kenya was on a university fieldtrip. To get us adjusted with the city, they decided to drop us off in pairs in different parts of the city armed with just a map and we had a couple of hours to get to our finish point. It was certainly an eye-opener!

    I'm extremely jealous with the giraffe feeding. image Very jealous indeed. I did get to stroke an orphaned rhino, but I'd have certainly swapped this for a spot of giraffe feeding. When we were coming back into Mombassa from safari, we had a guy jump on the back of our safari van who managed to break the lock and open the back door. Before we realised what was going on, he'd already grabbed some bags and jumped off into the night. Impressive speed and ingenuity.......and luckily my bag wasn't one of those stolen!


    I was there at election time so there was a lot of violence going on. Luckily I managed to stay clear of the majority of this. I was also a lot younger (and from looking at the photo, also a lot thinner!) and very naive, so if I saw a group of people rallying or protesting I'd go for a closer inspection. I certainly wouldn't do that now. Being caught up with a group of 200 men all shouting and carrying machetes might seem 'an experience' when I was young. Now it just sounds like a frightening incident where I might lose bladder control!

  • Hi Ruth. Thanks for re-posting your original post about running on low carbs.

    The one run where I said I was running on empty.....the only reason I thought I was running on empty was because I ran immediately after getting up in the morning and didn't eat any breakfast.

    In relation to the comments about my current diet. The days where I've eaten salad, haven't been because I intended these to be low carb days. I normally eat sandwiches, baguettes....basically anything bread-like that can be filled with something! I was attempting to cut this out of my diet and replace it with a healthier salad and some kind of meat (for protein?) instead as I was hoping this would prove beneficial in my weight loss goals.

    Listening to your advice, I will only do this once or twice a week and revert back to my normal lunch (thank God for that!), but just choose healthier fillings and eat wholemeal bread. If I do eat salad, I'll do this on the days I'm not running. image

  • Shady_Ady - I think slower runners tend to need to do more of there races at close to MP but towards the sharp end you have to be careful not to 'leave your best marathon out there on another race'. I think there is nothing better than feeling like you could have run just a little harder when you have finished. I, also, think starting a bit slower makes sure you are fully warmed up. If you ran it all at MP only 4 weeks before your A race it might be a bit close.

    I will probably run it as a progressive run, maybe first 5 at MP + 60secs per mile, second 5 at MP + 30, last 10 at MP. Having said that, my marathon isn't until 12 May so if I did run harder I'd have longer to recover. Sam may not want you running that hard and I reckon she knows a tad more than me so I'd listen to what she thinks. After all, she has got you in a really good position already so why take any risks. No-one will remember what you do at Spitfire but the world and his wife is looking for your result in Parisimage

    Hope this helps!

  • Calorie Watch! Food & Drink Diary - Thursday 10th January 2013

    A welcome return to carbs for lunch today. the only reason I had decided to cut carbs out of my lunch was thinking it had the potential to increase my weight loss. It might have helped, but my late afternoon I've been feeling like a ravenous pig, willing to eat anything going. After reading the advice here, I am reverting back to eating some lunch time carbs.

    My normal lunch time run had to be re-scheduled for the evening due to a lunch time meeting. Although I do like lunch time running, I also like free lunches. Lunch time meeting = free lunch. You can't really complain. Opening up my brown bag of joy, I found egg sandwiches, an orange, apple juice, Hula Hoops and a four-finger Kit Kat. I confiscated the Kit Kat from myself until a later date.

    6:50am: Breakfast - Fruit and Fibre cereal with semi-skimmed milk.

    8:00am: Cup of tea, bottle of 500ml water.

    9:30am: More tea.

    11:00am: Even more tea (I think I'm keeping Tetley's in business by myself!), an apple. another re-filled bottle of water.

    12:00pm: Lunch - Egg sandwiches on wholemeal bread, beef Hula Hoops (small pack), Apple Juice.

    2:00pm: Naval Orange. Cup of tea. more water.

    5:00pm: Possibly my fifth cup of tea, more water.

    7:15pm: 4 mile jog, 4 x acceleration strides (see above for full description)

    8:15pm: Dinner - Salmon fillet (in balsamic vinegar, honey, mustard seed and white wine glaze - oven baked and home-prepared), steamed broccoli, carrots and new potatoes. 500ml of blackcurrant squash.

    9:00pm: Desert - Low fat yoghurt with a small handful of dates, apricots and raisins. Tea and more squash.

    11:00pm: Green tea and bed!

  • Hi Ady

    Let's hope snow doesn't scupper the chances of a good run at parkrun tomorrow image

    Definitely think it's a good idea to put the carbs back into your lunch. It doesn't have to be bread though - you could have a cous cous based salad, or pearl barley, or millet or rice as the 'base,' along with the veggies/salad and a protein source such as lean meat or fish or a lowish fat cheese like feta. Even if you do want to cut down on carbs, it's best to keep them in breakfast and lunch and then have less (or none) at dinner - the so-called 'carb curfew' - as you need more to fuel your daytime activities than in the evening. (Though this wouldn't be ideal if you had just done a tough run and were running again the next morning, for eg).

    Your dream sounds hilariousimage I accept the blame for the cigars, totally!

    Can you remind me when Spitfire is please? 

  • Hey Sam. Spitfire 20 is on Sunday 3rd March.......sandwiched in between my two 20 mile runs the week before and the week after!'s about time I got down to doing my cross-training. Cycling and pilates is on the menu today. image

  • Excellent advice, DS2! And really well put. Yes, someone who is training to run, say 4.30 might do long runs at MP+60 at slowest, while someone training to run 2.30 might run at more like MP+90. The reason is that fitter runners will be racing closer to (or even at in the case of elite runners) their lactate threshold - say, 85% of their maximum while the average runner will run at around 70-75% of their maximum. So, the faster runner is working harder to maintain their marathon pace.

    If the idea of running a 20 miler at MP the whole way was floated, I'd say it's a no-no as far as I'm concerned. How much of a 20 miler to run at MP will depend on where it is in the schedule and on the individual's experience/fitness and how their build up has gone so far...

  • Shady_Ady wrote (see)

    Hey Sam. Spitfire 20 is on Sunday 3rd March.......sandwiched in between my two 20 mile runs the week before and the week after!'s about time I got down to doing my cross-training. Cycling and pilates is on the menu today. image

    OK. So if you like, we can rejig the schedule to fit it in. I wouldn't want you to do the schedule as is, PLUS the Spitfire. But the Spitfire could replace one of the other 20 milers already scheduled - especially if you feel that doing it under race conditions, and with some support from other forumites, would be beneficial to you...

  • Hoorah!!!! Adyimage Can't beat carbs!!!

    That looks alright to me. I'm in the same camp as regards tea. In fact I'd just sent my PA off to make yet another cup. I think that will be 5th today already. Not my fault though - I went to the local cafe and was going to have chocolate milk to help recovery from this mornings 9 miler but they had sold out. It would have washed the cornish pastie and chips down lovely!!!

    Looking forward to hearing what Ruth has to sayimage. I hope she only comments on your diet and not mine! (haven't had any alcohol at all this year though and feel much better for it).

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Green light from Sam on the Spitfire - bonza!

    I'm pretty certain I didn't dream up the bacon sarnie bit Ady but if for some reason I did then maybe we can drag Steve along as he's sure to have his own private supply.

    My aim would be to do the first half at 9mm and part or all of the second at 8mm (or build progressively towards that). That said I'd be happy to run whatever Sam prescribes and run alongside you if you can stand 2hrs+ of me wittering in your ear image

    Would be fantastic if you could do York too! 

  • Great news all round. I think I will be entering Spitfire this weekend then.

    How you feeling Malcs?

  • Im getting jealous that everyone is running and bigging up this spitfire....maybe I should look into it more. I have easthull 20 as my 20 miler before london. Im hoping to do the first 10 miles at about 9min/ml and the last 10 at MP (8min/ml) similar to malcs.

    Ady are you thinking of doing the York marathon aswell ? It would be great if you do, that would make at least four of us aiming for a similar time image

    Im so jealous of you stroking a rhino, like I said we didnt even see one, despite going to the rhino santuary out in tsavo. Were they friendly? I cant believe that you was just dumped in mombassa with a map......sounds very dangerous! Our friends had their cam corder and camera stolen out of their bag at the airport...but you sort of expect that in some airports (reason why I always put valuables in my hand luggage), but jumping on to your van and getting the bags out of the back...I dont know how they have the nerve.

    My marathon plan last year wasnt very good due to missing a month of training due to illness. At present im where I was at the end of feb last year!!

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