RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30



  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Sarah - the main aim of the long run at the moment is to build it up and get you up to the distance (20m). I wouldn't recommend adding MP miles in until you're comfortably there. Also you don't want to jeopardise recovery. I never really struggle with long runs and feel great afterwards but can sometimes feel tired a few days later when it catches up. But, I can identify with your urge to go faster. Get some strides into the MLR and see if that helps! Remember we've only just started and still have 3 full months of hard training before the marathon.

    Carl - I'd suggest in marathon training 2/3m reps would be done at marathon pace so not too bad.

    I do some runs were MP is used as recovery. So say 1k reps at HMP with 1k recovery at MP. MP becomes your friend on these sessions. image

    Bad news about Spoons and Carter. It's so easy to pick up injuries.

    Right must get up - I'm running in half an hour!
  • Hey Sarah. I like the look of next weeks training schedule. I like the idea of fitting 2 longer runs close together. I did this for my ultra training last year and will do this again if I attempt another ultra later this year. It's nice to see you are already up to 16 miles on your long runs. 

    Very impressive session on your rest day too! That puts my rest days to shame!

  • Thanks Sarah, Tricialitt advise really appreciated. Can definately imagine the whole experience could be really overwelming. 13 - 14 weeks away at minute and excitement/anxiety levels thru the rouof already image god knows what it will be like nearer the time. Gotta remember to just stay calm and relaxed and ENJOY the experience. I've got no doubt i will tho. Loving the whole challenge so far collected a few of first sponsers this week so getting less worried about falling short of sponsership and hopefully can just start to concentrate on training! I'm training to a marathon goal time of 3:40. Thinking with this is that although main goal is sub 4hr if i train to 3:40 gives me bit in the bag if marathon day should produce a few surprises i wasnt expecting. Ontop of that telling friends/family im going for sub 4 will be a nice surprise if i come in 15 minutes or so faster image. I done a 12 mile yesterday with 8 miles at 8:23 (marathon pace) was a bit of a test to be honest but achieved it but aware that this was only 8 miles rather than the 26.2 image . Thanks again! 

  • LTB- it seems a bit early to be doing so much at planned race pace- take it easy on the LSR's - you want to be going slow enough that you can ramp up the mileage without injuring yourself- and loads of time to go yet.- What plan are you using?


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Sarah - how did the run go today?

    LTB  - totally agree with tricialitt above.  Its really early to be doing MP miles at the moment - especially so many.  January should be all about building up the miles and limiting the chance of injury by running slowly enabling a quicker recovery.    There's plenty of time to test the water closer to April. 

    Hilly - nice double running yesterday.  What's been on the cards for you today?

    Brolish - how was the xc?

    It was a lovely day for running today - almost Spring like.  A great way to end the holidays.

  • Tricialitt - im using a slightly tweaked version of Advanced Marathoning upto 55mpw schedule......I hear you that i may be over doing it abit but schedule does call for some marathon pace running on LSR's some weeks........i do hear you about dangers of overdoin it/injuries tho as i am not long back from football injury and that is why i am not on exact program in schedule yet. I'm hoping that i can increase the mileage and get back on this within couple of weeks but does mean i may be running an increased risk of injury. Maybe it would be a better idea to just increase mileage to that in the schedule even at a slower pace rather than worry about specific times for now that i am doing it in?

  • Minni- nice family parkrunningimage

    The Surrey Champs xc went quite well. It wasn't the hilliest of courses but the mud more than made up for it. It felt like there was no time to recover because as soon you hit a flat/ downhill stretch you were up to your ankles in mud- fun fun fun!I felt I ran strong and overtook quite a few ladies on the second lap including a couple of club mates who usually kick my a*s which is always a good sign.image

    18m done today @ 8:37.
  • LTB- did it call for 8m @ MP? I used the 55-70 P&D last year but can't remember doing so much so early on...
  • Yes - the P&D does put quite a bit of MP running into the LSR's early on- I tried to follow it last year, but it was clear to me that it would kill me, so I eased up a bit.

    I'm sticking to slow running in my LSR's except perhaps a few strides, and a slightly faster last 5km or so.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Get away Brolish - I did 18 today @ 8:37 too!  No kidding!

    I think the P&D does call for these runs early on.  LTB - I think you said you'd not been running long?  The P&D is an excellent schedule - I've followed it myself in the past but I'd say to follow it to the letter you need a bit of experience behind you, so I think you're exactly right - use it as a guide and back off the pace if it's feeling too hard.  You'd really benefit from running a HM to see exactly where you are time wise.


  • Hi Carl, it sounds like your running is going well at the moment. The reps sound good and although your saying the 3x2400 reps sound cruel, I bet when you get to do them you will love them (maybe not whilst your doing them, but afterwards you will). Poor Spoons and Carter, fingers crossed they wont be out for long.

    Thanks Minni for your advice...I know your right...think i just sometimes get carried away with myself. Im one of those people who like to be doing something today and not tomorrow, but like you said were only at the end of week one, doing to much too soon could result in injury, which I really dont want, thankyou for keeping me on the straight and narrow.

    I like the sound of your km reps Minni. How did your run go today?

    Afternoon Ady, normally on my rest days, I usual do just that as I dont tend to have the time to get cross training or a recovery run in, however this weekend I was working so was in York, and then we were heading up to newcastle to celebrate my mother in laws 60th and my nieces 1st birthday, but chris was unwell so it all got cancelled at the last minute. Its actually been quite nice having a surprise weekend at home. Ive managed to get so much done and actually rest a little (watched friends with benefits), which is something unusual for me. Your training looks to be going fantastic and you managed to keep to your diet for the last few weeks too. Have you had any feedback on your dietary intake yet from Ruth?

    Hi LTB. I like your way of thinking (telling friends sub 4, but aiming for a 3:40)! What charity are you raising money for and how much do you need to raise? Last year I did all my training runs at MP and just increased the milage every week at the same pace. I didnt get injured doing this but I didn't run comfortably during the last 10 miles of the marathon. I have found by slowing down for my last few LSR my legs have felt fine afterwards so ive been able to get a recovery run in and a MSR two days later comfortably with no fatigue building up.

    Sounds like you had a fabulous race Brolish and a successful training run today. I love muddy runs.
  • I must have a selective memory because I followed it religiously. It probably felt so hard I chose to forgetimage. Nothing wrong with doing a few miles @ MP as long as its your current and not target MP. Like the others said its more imported to build a solid base at this stage.
  • Minni- you're sure we're not sisters? Lolimage
  • This is spooky, but my average pace today was 8:37 too (but I only did 8.42 miles)
  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 1, Day 7 - aim MSR (8miles) at easy pace (roughly @ 8:50-9:30) with 3 x 100m strides (as suggested by Minni yesterday)

    Actual; 8.42 miles at an average pace of 8:37 min/mls (this included 3 x 100m strides in the last three miles, climbing over a few styles and going through a few gates)

    I had a very enjoyable run down by the side of the river in York (after my trip to Newcastle was cancelled at the last minute due to an ill husband). Luckily a lot of the flooding had resolved, but there were some paths still blocked by deep waters.

    I didnt really look at my watch today, I just ran at a comfortable pace, one where I thought I could hold a conversation without getting breathless. My legs felt great all the way round and still do.

    The run I did today was half on the pavements/roads/paths and half on the grass. The stagnant water that stood on friday seemed to be replaced by lots of sludge and mud, making my normal run alittle more challenging than usual. I also found a new path which took me on to the grass banking along side the river instead of the cycle path. This was pretty muddy today but I have a feeling that I will enjoy running on this bit in the summer months once its dried out.

    During todays run ive learnt that running slower has some benefits;

    1. you get to enjoy the countryside more and spot more wildlife.

    2. you are more observant and spot new routes that your willing to explore

    3. your legs feel fine after a long run.

    the negatives;

    1. you dont feel as satisfied when you get home...I really didnt think I deserved any post run treats as I wasnt exhausted and my legs didnt feel as though they had been worked!
  • Total milage for week 1: 36.99 (slightly more than planned)

    Whats everyones thoughts on when to start bedding in new trainers. My current trainers are 5 months old and I have a new pair in the cupboard ready to bed in. I thought about starting to use them at the beginning of feb...does this sound reasonable?
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Permission to round that up to 37 Sarah!

    Another great run today and well done for sticking with the pace. Sounds like you got a nice bonus with the parties being cancelled!

    Can't believe the three of us ran exactly the same pace today!

    My run was lovely. Still and not too cold. 18 miles through country lanes on what I would class as an undulating route with a few big hills. All felt very comfortable and put in a sub 8 last mile for good measure!image
  • lol, thanks

    I really do think i needed a weekend at home so its been a bit of a blessing, although I have missed seeing everyone up north.

    Sounds like you had a fantastic run today, 18 miles on an undulating course (which i would probably describe as being hilly) with a speedy last mile : ) (because I cant do a smily face on my ipad...still!)
  • Thanks all. I hear urz about being careful with pacing, building up mileage without injury and not overdoing it so i dont compromise rest of weeks training. Hopefully overtime i'll be better able to judge the affects of my training on body. At minute i know my legs are aching quite abit image so nice to have a rest day. Do find it hard though to slow down, like the satisfaction of hitting time targets and feeling like im actually running at the marathon goal pace!

    Minni - have looked into some races to enter, Hastings and Watford Halfs look like best possiblities at minute! I thiink ur right that will give me good idea where im at and will also prepare me for VLM day.

    Sarah - Well done on the training so far and being so disciplined with timings. I'll be running for Childhood First they provide residential care and rehabilitation for severely traumatised children. My family has had dealings with them before as my mum is a foster carer. I have to raise 1600 but was great to get picked for such a great charity. Added motivation image

  • Well done on the run Sarah - looks like training is going really well and Minni is looking after you!

    What wildlife did you spot? When I go for runs through the local country park, I get to see all sorts - takes your mind off the tougher parts of the run image

  • Evening all. Some very good runs today by the sound of it so well done to everyone. I did 12 miles in 1hr 40m (8:20/mile) including a couple of miles at MP towards the end. I felt it a bit afterwards though so will heed the above advice to keep it slow for my LSRs for the time being. 

    Sarah - thanks for passing on the advice re resistance work. I have printed out Sam Murphy's routine and will definitely give it a go. I would definitely recommend pilates (not tried yoga) - it can be difficult if, like me, you are not very flexible or co-ordinated, but most exercises have easier and harder options and as long as you have a good instructor who will give you a bit of personal attention to start with you will be fine. I find it definitely helps my core strength and posture.  

    Regarding your new shoes, I would say it depends on how much wear you think you have left in your old ones. You have a LOT of running to do between now and 21st April so I wouldn't rush to start using your new shoes if you don't need to. 

    Interesting to see Sheffield mentioned above - we are going up there for a weekend at the end of the month so may need some advice about where to go for my LSR on the Sunday morning. 

  • LTB - I raised money for help the hospices last year, its such more rewarding when you can do it for a charity you admire and want to help. It also gets you through those tough times, when sometimes you may want to give up image. Im hoping to do the national three peaks this year to raise money for a charity, but I havent decided which one as yet. Im not normally as disciplined!! I decided to put my compression socks on yesterday after my run (even though my legs felt fine), im not sure if they helped or not, but my legs felt great wearing them, as though they were helping! I looked at P&D again yesterday and it does suggest including some MP miles in the long run early on in training like you seems to recommend doing them on alternate weeks.

    Hi Steve, it was mainly birds that I saw, must have seen over 6 different species of small birds and some ducks and geese. Also saw some grey squirels and what seemed to be over a hundred dogs...all extremly well behaved and under control of their owner.

    Afternoon Andy. Im so not flexible...I was useless at gymnastic at school - i didnt even learn how to do a cartwheel or hand stand! I will leave the new trainers a little longer then. I dont think I wear them in that much, on looking at my 5 month old ones, apart from the mud on them, they look hardly worn and are still very supportive. Where abouts in Sheffield are you staying?



  • Hi Sarah, We will be in the Greenhill area.

  • Andy - that's just down the road from where I am. You will be a 5/10 minute drive from the Peaks and some lovely runs

  • Evening, just back from our club run, six-ish miles over 5 sections, with a good hill to boot. I really struggled last time we did this route, so the training structure is already paying off, comfortable at a faster pace, really pleased.

    I'm not sure I agree about the shoes...I would wear my new ones now and alternate them so as to spread the,wear and extend the life of both pairs. It can't be good to go from a very worn pair into a brand new pair. But then again there was a girl here, also a doctor, who ran in the most worn out knackered shoes I have ever seen. They were literally falling apart but she never got injured.

    What's the plan for the rest of he week Sarah? I'll rest or cross train tomorrow, Puffy junior has challenged me to a race on the rowing machines at the school gym.
  • Evening Sarah!

    Sounds as though the training is going really well! image Loved your 'positives' and 'negatives' bit! You were better behaved than me though and didn't stop to take pics! image

  • Hi Andy, you should find some lovely runs out that way near abbeydale, whirlow, eccelsal, door, peaks etc, I think you will be spoilt for choice.

    Will you be doing the south york championships (road races) Carterusm? have you done shef half? missed it last year as i went to wembley to watch united...wish id not bothered and done the race instead!

    Evening Mr Puffy. Glad that the training is paying off and you had a good run today. I think thats what i would do when I start wearing my new trainers - only wear them on the shorter runs (and my older ones on the longer runs) until I bed them in alittle. I have a lot of netball this week unfort...already missing my running! I had netball training today and a match tomorrow...cant wait for the speed training/tempo run on wednesday now. Will be aiming for 16 miles on fri, short recovery run on sat and hopefully 10 on sunday. How about you?

    Hi Sarah, sounds like you had a good longish run at MP jealous. I have thought about taking the camera but would probably end up spending more time taking photos than running!
  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 2, Day 8 Aim - cross training

    Netball training restarted today so this evening I did 25 minutes of warm ups, drills and skills, followed by 4 x 10 minute quarters/easy game. I played WD for 3 quarters and C for one quarter.

    Missed my running today (especially as I didnt get to run around as much as usual due to playing WD instead of centre)

    Dying for a run tomorrow but I have a netball game, so my speed/tempo session has to wait until wednesday.
  • Sams advice on resistance training;

    Sarah - regarding strength/resistance training: it's fine to do on rest/ XT days but I don't recommend doing it prior to a run unless it's just a short easy one, as it may compromise your form and stability.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Sill a good workout Sarah!  Its great when you find you're missing your runs and you're therefore itching to get out. image

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