RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30

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  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    You'll be fine on your 16 mikes Sarah. Just take it nice and steady like last week. I can't believe the BM is almost upon us. Did you get your number today?
  • I thought that comment about your age would amuse you! I knew how old you were because we spoke about it at bootcamp! your training looks like it's going really well. It must be helpful having someone like Minni looking out for you. I think she is right - I bet by October you will be looking at much faster than 3:30! That's ok because first one to finish can get the beers in!!!

  • Thankyou Minni. I did get my number through today....was a nice surprise when I got home as I had completely forgot about it.



    So you was just teasing me DS2??? If I could do faces on my ipad, I would be doing several angry faces right now!



    If your the first back do you get to drink them all too?



    I feel so lucky to have Minni, shes a lovely person (who bought me a coffee when we met up) and she's given me lots of useful advice, tips and encouragement.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Lol Sarah - most of the people I run with would disagree with you on the 'lovely' bit. They think I'm hard and cruel to them, making them run all these miles! I think (hope) it's more of a love/hate thing though! They were calling me tonight when I arrived late then told them they had to do 7x 1k reps, only for me to miss Number 6 as I had to nip and spend a penny in a field!
  • Morning all,

    It's been a hectic week but I've managed to fit my runs in, albeit in a different order to that specified in my schedule. I did an interval session last night, 3 x 1.5 miles with 400m recovery - I did them in 10:46, 10:46 and 10:43 which was a bit slower than I wanted (and than it felt at the time), I was aiming for 10:30, but at least I was consistent which I think is always a good thing when doing intervals.

    Also, there is a running school which has just opened very close to where I work so I have signed up for a few coaching sessions. I had the first one a couple of days ago and it's surprising how much I need to work on. I guess that's a good thing as it should mean I will see an improvement in my times as my technique gets better. And it doesn't mean I won't still learn a lot from the people on this forum!

    carterusm - thanks for the offer of the links to some routes, I will send you a message once our plans are firmed up. I don't mind hilly routes, although I am guessing that the ones in my part of East London/Essex are pretty tame compared to what you have up thereimage   

  • AndyA - what part of East london/Essex is that? My wife comes from the East End (Hackney)and lived in Chingford when I met her.

    sarah - yes, of course I was teasingimage. Good luck with the 16 miler today!

    Minni - ah! the old trick of needing a pee when you can't keep up eh? I hope you got a bit of stick for that!image

  • DS2 - I'm in Harold Wood, near Romford, so I'm a little way from Chingford.

  • I know it well AndyA. My Brother-in-law lives at Rise Park in Romford. I used to run from Chingford to Romford on occasions a few years back.

  • DS2, I would have been doing a handicap race in Rise Park (or starting there anyway) on Boxing Day if I hadn't have been ill in bed all day image 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    16m in the bag yet Sarah?

     

  • Minni wrote (see)
    Lol Sarah - most of the people I run with would disagree with you on the 'lovely' bit. They think I'm hard and cruel to them, making them run all these miles! I think (hope) it's more of a love/hate thing though! They were calling me tonight when I arrived late then told them they had to do 7x 1k reps, only for me to miss Number 6 as I had to nip and spend a penny in a field!

    Haha...when you've got to go, you've got to go...they will be thanking you in months to come when they can run further and faster! image

    Afternoon Andy.....whats a quarter of a minute when your doing intervals and least you got them in after a hectic week image. Why cant a running school open near me? What did they tell you that you needed to improve on?

    Chingford to Romford...im clueless...going to have to goole them!

     
    DS2 wrote (see)

    sarah - yes, of course I was teasingimage. Good luck with the 16 miler today!

    I wouldnt have expected anything less image

    Good 16 miler in the bag image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Details Sarah!  We need details!!

  • Well done sarah! Should keep Minni happy for a day or two!

    I might open a running school. 'You put left leg in front of right, followed by rightleg in front of left and repeat many times but quicker than walking pace. If you are feeling really brave you can have both feet off the ground at the same time'

    I learned this just after I learned to walk - but not before.

    How much will I earn with these golden nuggets of advice?

  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 2  (day 12) LSR

    Aim 16 ml easy (@8:50 - 9:30)

    Actual;16.2 miles at an average pace of (oops) 8:19 min/mls.

    I did keep trying to slow down, but each time I looked at my watch it had crept back to this average pace. After several miles I decided that my body must have been happy plodding on at this pace as it kept going back to it and I felt great. I started to feel my legs tire during the last mile, but I think this had a lot to do with the mild aches I still had remaining before I set of from my netball match on Tuesday (I really cant believe how much I ached after the match...must have had something to do with the 1.5 months break from netball). I have to admit my arms ached more today...again all down to netball from Tuesday night.

    In the past for my LSR I would start practicing taking in the nutrition I will be using during the marathon from between 8-10 miles however after reading Ruths advice on the ascics target 26.2 threads I decided to go longer to try to depleat my carbohydrate stores alittle. I managed up to 13 miles at about 1 hour 50 and then gave in and had a few emergency jelly beans I had put in my pocket (a christmas gift I hadnt yet opened). Even though I only had a couple they perked me up alittle. This is the first time ive tried running on jelly beans, I have to say I prefer Jelly babies...on marathon day I think it will be a combination of jelly babies and shot blocks...although im still to try those high 5 (if ive remembered their name correctly) gels.

    Site seeing

    Im hoping that any trouble im in for running a little too quick will be undone with the fact that I ran outdoors today. I decided to make a mental note of all the sites I saw....just to remind myself why running outdoors is much nicer than on the treadmil, even though it meant me missing out on my resistance training (which really I shouldnt probably do just before a long run anyway)

    1. Nestle Factory (well whats left of it)
    2. York minster in the back ground
    3. St Johns college
    4. Castle Walls which I ran underneath
    5. Rowntree Park which I ran through
    6. Terrys factory (Which I dont think is in use, but its a gorgeous building)
    7. York Race course, Knavesmires which I ran around
    8. Millenium Bridge over which I ran to cross River Ouse
    9. Cliffords Tower
    10. Kings Arms pub (which was no longer under water)
    11. Museum Gardens
    12. River Ouse 

     

     

  • DS2 wrote (see)

    Well done sarah! Should keep Minni happy for a day or two!

    I might open a running school. 'You put left leg in front of right, followed by rightleg in front of left and repeat many times but quicker than walking pace. If you are feeling really brave you can have both feet off the ground at the same time'

    I learned this just after I learned to walk - but not before.

    How much will I earn with these golden nuggets of advice?

     

    Im not sure if Minni will be happy or angry with me as I did go alittle too quick!

    Hmmmm regarding payment I think it would depend on who your target audience is!!

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    tut tut Sarah! image  

    Do you have your splits for the run?  If you've got your garmin set to autolap you can get it from the history.

    I'm as guilty as you for going a bit too fast so there's not much I can say.  However, just keep an eye on your energy levels during your run and your recovery rate.   If you find you start to lagg during the run then by going slower earlier on will use less energy thus allowing you to go further.  You said you took on some jelly beans at 13m although you were trying to do the run without any fuel.  Did you rely on them for the perk-up or was it just because they were there and you could?

    As for recovery, you want to be able to get your next session done without tired legs so see how you feel on when you do your next run on Sunday. 

    Its great that you're getting up to 16 without any difficulties after being slightly concerned at increasing the longer run.  image 

    Have you thought about tactics for the BM next week?

     

     

  • Hi Sarah,

    The main issues I had were -

    My front foot landing in front of me instead of level with my hip, so I'm essentially braking with my heel when my foot lands.

    My arms not moving enough and going more from side to side than backwards and forwards.

    My back heel not coming up far enough.

    It's going to be interesting trying to correct these things over the next few weeks at the same time as doing my marathon training - it may have been better to do it at a different time but they had a special introductory offer.

  • … and good run by the way, it sounds very scenic as well - if not as glamorous as Romford to Chingfordimage

    I think it's a bit of a dilemma with the LSRs (for me anyway) - I'm wary of going too fast but at the same time wary of being too far off my marathon pace and my body struggling with the faster pace on the day.

    I'm glad you mentioned nutrition - I have been meaning to ask for people's views on this as I have never used gels (or even jelly babies) before. In my last marathon I just relied on the lucozade they gave out and made it round OK but then my goal was much more modest, I wasn't aiming for a competitive time. I'm figuring that to do sub 3:30 I will need to think about it more seriously.   

  • Glad I havent been too told off! I didnt have my watch set to autolaps, but ive just done it now ready for next time. Im terrible for reading instructions so I dont know about half of the things that my watch is capable of doing image

    I think I could have kept on going without the jelly beans, but a part of me wanted to see if I could run on them and if they were better than jelly babies as some people have suggested....and they were tourmenting me!

    I have down to do a recovery run tomorrow, but I will see how I feel, im sure my legs will be ok but if not, I will do a recovery walk instead. My aim is 10 miles on sunday with hopefully some resistence training. Im convinced my legs will be fine for it, if not then its a sign that 8:19 min/mls was a little too quick so i will try harder next time to slow down if that is the case.

    I initially suggested doing a speed session on tue but I have decided just to do a steady run instead as BM will be like my speed session for the week and I need slightly rested legs....what do you think? My aim for BM is to set of at 7:30 min/mls but slowly increase my pace over the run so my ave pace is more nearer 7:05 - 7:10 min/mls by the end of the run but we will see. How about you?

  • Hi Andy. It sounds like you have been given a few things to work on. I guess the arms will be the easiest thing to amend, but the other two, it will need some concentration and effort during your training, but it will be worth it in the long run image.

    A part of me is worried about shorter distance races aswell as I keep on thinking that I will get too comfortable running slow so when I get back in to 10ks and HM I will be more of a plodder!

    I tried running on lucozade last year and it really didnt agree with me. I didnt try any of the gels as a friend recommended these shot blocks which I tried and actually liked. Their abit like jelly cubes with energy and salts in. You need to drink after taking them, but generally they were ok. I was fine with them when I run at MP but when I tried one during a half marathon near to the end (just for practice) it gave me stomach cramp. Lots of people at boot camp recommended the high 5 gels so im going to give them a go.

    I was given a bottle of "for goodness shakes" at the end of Leeds abbey dash. I decided to try it when I got back from my run today...that was quite nice. It contains 3:1 (carb: protein) and lots of nutrients.....doesnt beat food but I had that aswell....and im hungry again already!

    Ive just been reading some of the other threads and Ruth has been saying that fruit and veg doesnt count as carbs...they are (or were) my main carbs in my diet.....think im going to have to start eating more bread, potatoes, rice, cous cous etc now!

  • Good work on the 16M today Sarah, if the route you did is anything as flat as Brass Monkey it's no wonder you were running quicker with the same effort!  I ran faster than planned last night and blamed the flat route image It's always a good sign when 16 miles isn't a long hard slog.

    If you want to try the High 5 gels I'll bring a few along next Sunday for you to take home, saves buying a box if you don't like them.  I do like the High 5 gels, they're all I've ever tried.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    sarah osborne wrote (see)

    A part of me is worried about shorter distance races aswell as I keep on thinking that I will get too comfortable running slow so when I get back in to 10ks and HM I will be more of a plodder!

    Marathon training is all about building endurance but I'm sure you won't lose any speed. 

    sarah osborne wrote (see)

    Ive just been reading some of the other threads and Ruth has been saying that fruit and veg doesnt count as carbs...they are (or were) my main carbs in my diet.....think im going to have to start eating more bread, potatoes, rice, cous cous etc now!

    Can you act as the go between and filter through any useful infor?  Why does fruit and veg not count?  I eat loads.  I find too much bread, pots etc when I'm marathon training doesn't work.



  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    sarah osborne wrote (see)
    I initially suggested doing a speed session on tue but I have decided just to do a steady run instead as BM will be like my speed session for the week and I need slightly rested legs....what do you think? My aim for BM is to set of at 7:30 min/mls but slowly increase my pace over the run so my ave pace is more nearer 7:05 - 7:10 min/mls by the end of the run but we will see. How about you?

    lol - you said that at the beginning of the parkrun too and were off like a rocket... and held on. image  image  

    That sounds good for Tuesday.  You could do some shorter intervals (not too many) or add in some strides to help increase the pace without running the whole thing too fast?

    Have you thought about a warm up for the BM.  I'll be doing at least 2 miles - what about you carrot?  We could meet for a wu?

    Hilly - I guess we'll see you picking something up at the prize giving? image

    Me?  Well... My last two HM were run in 1:33:08 (Sept) and 1:32:55 (Oct).  I've increased my mileage and done more speed sessions since then so might be looking at a pb.  However, I am a bit over weight image and know I'd feel better racing if I were a few pounds lighter, and I don't always perform best on flat courses.  I find it draining on the legs, especially towards the end.  I guess its because I normally train on hilly routes.  So we'll see.  I'm not all that bothered to be honest.  I know my training is going well and that's as much as I can ask for.

  • Well done on your 16 miler. It must have felt nice keeping that pace with such ease. I always find nicer scenery makes the miles pass quicker and also makes me run quicker as well. 

  • Ruth and Sam were saying that fruit and veg have too much water in them to make them effective carbs...they still recommended the cous cous, rice, potatoe etc.



    Minni I dont think I would be able to hold on to a pace like that for a half.....or even 7 min miles for a half, wish i could though but i know i stand my best chance if I start slower and speed up.



    Maybe add some strides on tue if thats ok? I have another netball match on wed....least I will get a few intervals in during that....just hope it doesnt leave me the way it has done this week!



    I havent ever warmed up before a half before but im happy to give it ago as long as its nice and steady so I dont tire my legs.



    I have my fingers crossed for you for a new PB, with doing more milage and speed training, it gives you a good chance but you never know what you will feel like on the day. Im same as you, I always do better on the hillier routes. Minni, your so not overweight. I guess like me your main aim is the marathon, so any PBs along the way are just a bonus!



    Hi Ady....the miles did seem to disappear quite quickly.....didnt clock watch like you end up doing on the TM! Good luck for your park run in the morning
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Sarah - I know I'm not overweight as such but I'm carrying about 5 pounds more than I was when I ran London last year and I can really feel it when I'm racing. However I can't seem to shift it. I'm hoping cutting out the alcohol will help. I eat loads of fruit and drink lots - maybe I'm carrying too much water?
  • I get what you mean, when I went to Kenya and didnt run for 2.5 weeks, I think I put a couple of pounds on and lost some muscle, everyone laughed at me when I said I felt podgy and had put weight on because they couldn't see it, but I could see it and mainly I could feel it! I think you should shift those 5lb no problem with stopping drinking and the increased mileage your doing. I really can't believe how many calories you end up consuming when you do have a drink!



    Loving your water theory idea.....I must be the same with the consumption of my at least 10 portions of fruit and veg a day!
  • That was a cracking run Sarah, I remember a visit to York when a chap was running round the City Walls at twilight locking the gates as he went.  You should come down here, we have a boxing day race around our walls, though I suspect yours are in better condition.  Very good pace to be running that distance comfortably.

    Is there a table of calories per drink? How many in a 440ml can of lager for instance?  Half a bottle of red wine?  a very large malt whiskey?

    None of which I consumed last night I hasten to add! I used to be able to do a long run after a couple of beers but not now. 14 miles planned for today but I have to give my son a lift somewhere so I'll drop him off and I've planned an undulating route around that corner of Cheshire.  Last week I ran, lunched, showered and slept the whole afternoon away so I need to keep my eyes open today.

    So what's the plan today Sarah?

  • Thankyou Mr P. My legs feel surprisingly ok today which I'm surprised by as I thought that they would ache alittle. I did put compression socks on once I got in after a shower. I really think that they may be helping. I've just arrived down in sheffield to see my parents, see some friends and go to the match. I was supposed to be coming down last night but due to traffic and a would be "lonely husband" I stayed up in york and came down this morning in stead. This means that my recovery run first thing this morning hasn't yet been done. Fingers crossed I will get a 3 mile recovery run in later, but if not I do end up walking about 1.5 miles to the match and the same on the way back. Tomorrow I have a roughly 10 mile off road run in the peaks with a friend planned.



    I love history, ancient buildings, castles etc so the more I see the better. How far is your Boxing Day run?



    You can google some thing to get their calorie content but a month or so ago I put myfitnesspal app on my phone- you can search for things and scan barcodes- it tells you the calorie content and the amount if carbs, fat and protein your consuming...its great I'm addicted, although it has put me off baileys. One night I consumed over a 1000 kcal just in baileys!



    Hope you have a fabulous and successful run today with no cat naps afterwards.
  • Blimey, I'm partial to a B52 myself.  The Boxing day run is 4-5 miles but it was shortened this year because of the wet, it was 3 miles, I daren't put the time on here.

    Well I just got in, change of plan, after pottering around waiting for Puffy Junior to surface for his match, he told me it was cancelled, so I politely explained that had he told me earlier I could have gone for a run, bless him.  I went a different route that included a long gentle climb of around 200ft and a short off road section that was pretty muddy, ending with the mile long hill back to our house. Overall was 13.8 at 8:58mm.

    As for raceday pace, I feel like I'm working a little too hard to keep this pace, in the past 9mm would have been like almost not even running, so 8mm on raceday might be a bit of a struggle. At this point though I will introduce a marathon pace longer run into midweek

    I didn't see many sights, just  a kestrel and a Llama farm!

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