RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30



  • Good races by puffy & Sarah. 2nd lady too!??

    Sarah, yes Shaggy coached Gazelle, and all of us too, Brol, speed sheep, scuba, puffy and others. Was told to do my first 20 miler at 9:15-9:30 to get the endurance aerobic side first. Faster came later, but very few miles at race pace in LSRs. Helped me nail 3:30 first attempt.

    I did have the advantage of going last though of 5-6 people, and being able to look at everyone's London stats especially helped, comparing Gazelles to others showed tiny differences of approx 60-90 seconds at half way point, in some cases resulted in a crash near end & big positive split. Proved to me that even paced works so maybe is wise to get a safe 3:30 under your belt.

    Mr Puffy, sure you will crack it. No autumn marathon for me, kept working all over the distances to get sub 1:30 half and sub 40 10k, neither even thought possible at start of year. So Think BIG! Nothing is impossible. Oh 2 ultras also sneaked in for fun. Did I see you were injured or similar?

    Oh, Sarah, not sure who the comment about TR24 was to, but I will be there. And yes the solo and duo people are nutters. It's an amazing event though.
  • Hi Minni, there is no need to apologise, I enjoy tough sessions....its the only way to improve. They are so satisfying....and it didnt destroy me too much, I was still able to do my core exercises with the medicine ball afterwards (as someone was using the mats before my run). Thankyou for the compliment, not compeletly sure that I glide but I hope I look like I do. Well done on 1.5 mile reps. What pace did you do those at?

    Hi Mr P, progress is still progress no matter how big it is. Sometimes its nice to just get out there and not be ruled by your watch and paces. What does your speed session involve tomorrow? Im sad to say that there was no six pack or curry, but I did have pub lasagne and garlic bread. I was the designated driver so I was on the one diet coke....dont normally drink caffiene so late so im worried about being able to sleep tonight now!

    Evening FRC. Thankyou. Ive heard lots of lovely things about Shaggy. Congratulations on nailing a sub 3:30 as well on your first attempt, thats amazing. Im hoping that I may be able to learn from the paris marathoners what you learnt fom Gazelle and the others. How far are the two ultras?

    Glad to hear that you will be at TR24 too. Ive never done it before but Ive heard so many good reports on it. Im in a team with some of the other people from boot camp. How many are in your team? Booked the monday afterwards off work today....just incase.
  • Had a lovely surprise at the running clubs AGM. I won the open and the winter handicap, so now I have two cups and a plaque to decorate our front living room with....chris is going to love me!

    I didnt do too bad in the Grand Prix either despite me living roughly 50-60 miles away from the majority of the races in it....was told that I was only a couple of points behind the winner.
  • Sarah- great xc racing and a cracking interval session. I'm not surprised you found it hard, it does sound evil.imageimage

    Have you got a team entered for the TR? I understand that it's full now. I did it last year with FRC, Gazelle and a few others. It's a cracking event, easily one of the best running events I've ever done. Hope to see you there.image

  • Oh and congrats on the bling!image

  • Congrats on the bling indeed.

    Ultras are done Sarah, 35 mile one last October the month before I went for the sub 1:30 half in November, and 45 mile one last Saturday. VLM out of the way and will enter something else, 50/60 mile maybe.

    You could both easily do an ultra, Brol especially with all her mileage per week.

  • Congratulations!

    I did a little ultra in 2011, one of the local clubs organiss a runners and walkers efvent the length of the Sandstone trail from Whitchurch to Frodsham, 33 miles with a lot of ups and downs, it was great fun,I've entered this year but it might be full I was a bit late.

    Tonights session was good, plenty of runners and I worked quite hard. My pc is playing up so I can't put my garmin in. It was the industrial estate again Sarah, a 1K lap which I managed at sub7mm, a half mile lap again sub7mm, then a mile or so flat, jog to the lampposts then fast / slow then jog back. I can feel my recovery is a lot quicker than it was when I First gOt back.

    Tomorrow is a rest day, is it your long run? I am doing eighteen miles this weekend so I may wait till sunday if I feel I need a bit more rest.
  • Just checked I'm in image
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Puffy - nice intervals tonight. image. Sorry I didn't get back to you about your MP miles in your ling run this weekend. Sorry to ask (terrible memory) but what miles have you done so far in your long runs? What about increasing your 18 to 20 this weekend and keep them easy, then perhaps reduce back to 18 next weekend and do a block of 4 or 5 miles? Or even say 2 blocks of X miles each. I usually do a few 20s then cut back slightly when I add quality in, usually 2 x 4m blocks within 16/18 miles. This weekend will be my 4th 20 so I expect I'll start with MP stuff next weekend.
  • Haha, thanks can tell that the reps were Minnis idea and not mine!

    We have a team of 6 entered for TR24 curtesy of Malcs who I met at bootcamp. There are 5 of us from boot camp and one friend doing it. Im really looking forward to it as ive heard nothing but positive comments about it. I have to say its quite an exciting year I now have planned starting with barcelona half next weekend, VLM, isle of skye half, national three peaks challenge, TR24, GNR (found out today that I got a place, as did Minni), Yorkshire marathon and hopefully Palermo half....just hope I dont get injured at all as I dont have the time!

    Hats off to you FRC, I think I would struggle with 35 miles, let alone 45. How did you do in the one last week? I dont think I would be able to walk if I completed that distance. On a positive note, VLM will feel so short in comparison! Round rotherham is supposed to be a good ultra - 50 miles mainly off road. Ive done a couple of sections of it as a relay and was thinking about doing it all until I did my first marathon last year and it put me off.

    Mr P, that sounds like a tough 33 miles. Do you think it makes running marathons easier? Congratulations on your speed session tonight. Its so rewarding seeing yourself improve and feel stronger. I think you deserve a nice rest day tomorrow. Its been quite nice having a 2 day rest and having the time to catch up with friends and family. Cant wait to get out tomorrow though and plod those streets....just hope the sleet which they have forecasted stays in the sky until after my run.
  • x posts, hate it when that happens!

    Congratulations on getting in that race Mr P. Im having a celebratory berry cider for getting into GNR!

    Wish I was on my 4th 20 Minni....think I will only get to do about 4 20s in total before VLM.....still better than the one I managed to do last year though!
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 6 (day 38) Aim; rest day

    Another successful rest day, made up of nexplanon training, shopping at Meadowhall with my mum and then a trip back to York.

    I still managed some exercise....but only in the form of a slow plod around the shops and trying clothes on....better than being completely sedentary im sure.

    Long run tomorrow!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Sarah I'm only up to so many 20s because I'm so used to running them. This will be my 12th marathon. When I trained on my own using an off the shelf schedule I would start the training 16 weeks before the marathon and build up to the long runs. However, now I'm coached Moz has me comfortably up to 18 miles before marathon training starts then I'm straight into 20m runs at an easy pace for 6 weeks or so before starting to add quality into them. I'll also do a couple of duration runs: 3:15 at an easy pace. These usually come out at about 22 miles.
  • minni - I had noticed you always seemed to be running 20's a while ago. I hadn't really followed how (on the Sub 3:15) but now I understand. That looks like a really good idea. What do you do for long runs during the summer months (ie after spring marathons)?

    Sarah - enjoy the long run! 12 for me later today and then an easy 5 tomorrow with 18 incl 10 at MP on Sunday!

  • Morning Minni, your way of marathon training sounds like a good way to do it. I cant believe that you have done 11 marathons so far....which one is your favourite?

    Im not sure I would find the time to do such long runs all the time, but I guess it just becomes part of your lifestyle.

    Hi DS2. Hope you have a good run today and at the weekend. Sundays sounds like a difficult but satisfying one. Ive just been to see the dentist.....its never good news where their im waiting for the LA to wear off before I venture out on my run....dont fancy any biten lips!

    Looks like it might rain aswell!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    DS2  - I run 16m (occasionally 18) as my long run when not marathon training so increase it to 18 during the month prior to MT starting then I'm ready to go straight to the 20s.  I have to say though I do recover very quickly from a 20m run so its never much of an issue.

    That is a tough run you have on Sunday.  I remember doing those as part of the P&D.

    Enjoy the 20 Sarah!


  • Well Minni I did 16 the week before last; that was my longest run so far, then I did that 5 mile race last weekend...I've got a half next weekend so I thought 18 this weekend then up to 20 the week after the half (24th Feb).

    Then I can do:

    3/3     22
    10/3   20
    17/3   22
    24/3   20
    31/3   22
    7/4     18
    14/4   13
    21/4   26.2

    giving me a week or poss 2 of "spare" long runs if I have to change plans?



  • I had actually planned to do around 16 mile for my long runs over summer to keep me ticking over but a few people talked me out of it so I ened up doing between 11-13 for my long runs, which I guess isnt too bad, but now i wish I had just got on with the 16s. Doing 16s frequently must make the 18 and 20s easier. Minni your food bill must be so the moment im almost eating double what I was eating before and im still loosing weight!

    Afternoon Mr P, it looks like you have everything worked out and you have a good number of long runs scheduled which is great. Think im only going to do the one 22 as last year I developed a cold afterwards so im wondering if it was slightly too much.....although I didnt get any illness after VLM which is 4 miles more, so maybe its just me being paranoid!

  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 6 (day 39) Aim; Steady Long Run (around 20 miles)


    Actual; 20 miles @ 8:30 min/mls on average + a 0.6 mile cool down afterwards- which was made up of a steady jog/walk.


    I was back in York so I decided to do the lap that I have done twice now and add a little on the end which I couldnt do two weeks ago due to the ice. I was hoping that this would work out at 20 miles but it was actually about a mile too short so I ended up doing a loop on the side of the river to take me back to the rugby club and then home. Throughout my run I had added on several extras just incase it was short of miles so I was surprised when it actually was.

    Due to some extra loops I did get a better view of the minster and museum gardens which was quite nice.

    My first 14 miles was a breeze, 14-17 I did start to tire a little but still felt good. I think this had something to do with running in to the wind which turned out to be alot stronger than I had initially thought. Mile 18 was ok as I had turned on one of the loops to head back towards home. I didnt enjoy the last two miles and did wonder a couple of times whether to stop and go home or whether to continue. Me being the stubborn person I am I continued which im happy about now.

    I did enjoy my run today and think that I felt better than last week, however this week should have been much easier than last week, 1 because I had already done 20 miles last week, 2 it was a flat course unlike last week and 3 I hadnt run 8 miles the night before. Im not sure if the last two miles feeling alittle tougher was psychological due to me mapping out this route and thinking I would be finished at a certain point, but I wasnt.

    Setting of 2 hours later than usual also made it slightly more difficult due to more people being out and getting in my way in town.

  • Sarah - thought I would pop in and see how you are doing. It looks like everything is going very well indeed. What time are you targeting for your upcoming HM ?

  • mile reps

    The plan was to do the full 20 miles easy/steady, but I was hoping to do the first 12-14 miles steadier than the last 8. Because I hadnt run for 2 days I think I must have been like a caged animal let loose as my first two miles were a little too quick despite me trying to slow down (which I managed to do eventually by mile 3)

    1 @ 8:12 min/mls

    2 @ 8:12 min/mls

    3 @ 8:17 min/mls

    4 @ 8:44 min/mls

    5 @ 8:30 min/mls

    6 @ 8:37 min/mls

    7 @ 8:27 min/mls

    8 @ 8:29 min/mls

    9 @ 8:36 min/mls

    10 @8:40 min/mls

    11 @ 8:27 min/mls

    12 @ 8: 48 min/mls (several sets of steps and running through town)

    13 @ 8:24 min/mls

    14 @ 8:29 min/mls

    15 @ 8:27 min/mls

    16 @ 8:24 min/mls

    17 @ 8:22 min/mls

    18 @ 8:24 min/mls

    19 @ 8:31 min/mls

    20 @ 8:30 min/mls


    average pace 8:30 min/mls

  • Hi Carter, how are you? I keep meaning to pop on to your thread to see how your doing but its so difficult to keep up with everyone.

    Im not sure yet about next week. It would be nice to get a PB so

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Another perfect 20 today Sarah - blimey this is easy work for me!

    There's no reason why today should have felt easier than last week.  Last week was hilly so you think the flat should feel easier but that's not always the case.  On a hilly route you work hard on the hills but then get some respite on the downhills whereas on a flat course its continuous pounding.  You will have got a lot out of today's run - you didn't give up when it got hard towards the end (and yes I think most of this would be in your head - you do gear yourself up for finishing and its hard when you realise its short and have to keep going). 

    The wind also had an affect on the run today.  Its funny how we don't realise how strong it is until we face it head on.  This was the problem I had on the beach run I did a few weeks ago!

    I wonder if you would have felt better at the end if you hadn't done those first three miles so fast?  Possibly, possibly not but worth giving it some thought.

    You've had a few hard weeks and done really well to get it all done.  It'll be nice to have an easier week leading up to your half next week.  What is the heather likely to be in Barcelona?  Do you know what the course is like?

    I loved your photo of your bling on fb.  Your parent's must feel very proud.  Are they approving of your marathon training schedule?!  I reckon they'll both be worrying about you smashing their pbs! image


  • Thankyou Minni for the kind encouraging words. I did wonder the same as you with the first two miles being quite quick....two miles out of 20 doesnt seem much though to have such an effect...until I think how much I suffered after setting of at 6 min/mls for a 10k. I had slowed down to 7 min/mls within half a mile, but that first half a mile was enough almost to destroy me.

    I get what you mean about the flat being just as tough, if not sometimes tougher than a hilly route...its more obvious say on a bike when you can free wheel down the hills, but its just the same for running. All my best race times are on hillier courses. I can also remember wishing for a hill at VLM last year just so different muscles could kick in and give the others some rest.

    I remember the wind on the east coast when I did the coastal was a killer...that together with running on the beach is enough to destroy some people!

    Im going to have a look at the course for barcelona this weekend, having been twice in the space of a year, im hoping I will have a good idea of the route and what it will involve. Someone was saying it was in the 20s last week, although I think that its unusually warm for spain at this time of year. When I went in winter it was similar to a cool summers day in this country.

    Thankyou. I will have to transfer the picture on to here over the weekend. I think they are really proud of me and just glad that im carrying on from them as it gives them a good excuse to still attend the races and club events. My dad says that im doing too much, but ive pointed out to him several times that he was doing much more than me at the same stage in marathon training...he use to be the same with my mum, always discouraging her from doing too many miles. My mum is very encouraging however, initially she thought I was doing to much with doing some 20s so early on but once I had explained to her why, that I had built it up sensibly and im having adequate rest days she is quite happy.

    I dont think I stand a change of beating my dads PB (yet) but im not sure about my mums...I double checked what it was this week and it was 3 hours 26 mins!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    There's your target then! image

  • thats what I was thinking too!

    links for the gradient and map of wouldnt let me copy and paste!
  • looking at the weather forecast, it predicts it will be 15 degrees in the day (7 degrees at night)....cant wait for some warmth, although when im running I will probably want it cooler!
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 6 (day 41) Aim; Rest day or a 3 mile recovery run

    I went in to work this morning to start an audit. It was quite satisfying collecting all the information I needed after thinking about doing it for over the last 6 months.

    Afterwards some friends from Newcastle called in to say hello and watch football on their way home from Malton.

    This was then followed by a 3 mile walk to Jamie Olivers restuarant in York, followed by a 3 mile walk home (via the dormouse pub). Had a lovely evening being spoilt by my husband (early valentines day present). I would certainly recommend the resturant to friends.

    Plan for tomorrow...10 miler (4 miles steady, 4 miles @ MP, 2 miles steady) followed by a trip to the cinema to watch Les Mes
  • Sounds like a lovely day Sarah, I haven't run today, just felt very tired last night.  It is Puffy junior's Sunday morning training tomorrow so I've planned a route completely off road on the Greenway.  It is incredibly boring but flat as a pancake and as I plan some 8m miles it will be a good route.

    I spoilt Mrs P today, I got her some Jo Malone bath oil for no reason, she has been really helpful and I've got all my runs in so far because she's prepared meals etc.

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