RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30



  • "just five more to go until we start tapering".....the thought is giving me butterflies Andy! I think your plan for the marathon is spot would be awful if you blew up in the marathon...its a hell of a long way to go if your not feeling great!

    I think you did amazingly today Angela. My training was the same last year for London. At this stage my longest run was the 9 mile race that I did on sunday as I was out for a month with a stubborn chest infection ? whooping cough. Im so paranoid this year about picking something up as everything is going so perfect at the moment. What are your plans running wise for the rest of the week?

    I loved both places, we were made to feel like celebrities in Crete just because we were getting married and Italy....its my favourite place in the the food, language, limoncello and their way of life.
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 9 (day 63) Aim; Netball training.

    I took today very steady in training as I really dont want to risk an injury. We spent the first half an hour doing drills and then the second half playing 10 minute matches.

    All day I have been dying to get outside as it looked so nice and the time I got out however it was 3 degrees, foggy and cold. I couldnt feel my fingers all training as I stupidly didnt pack my gloves this morning as it looked so nice.

    On a positive note..I survived without any injuries ready for my run tomorrow. Ive definitely decided that im going to be packing in netball at the end of the season to concentrate on my running.
  • I have been asking Ruth the dietician for advice on fuel during the marathon as I really messed this up last year and didnt really have enough, infact I had less than half the amount I should have and didnt start having anything until mile 12 which was far to late.

    So far this is her advice;

    I would go for the drip feed option with the chews when you find them heavy. My first guideline to you would be no less then 30g of carb per hour (so 4 shot blocks or 3 shot blocks and 2 jelly babies (jelly babies around 4.5g of carbs per sweet) per hour. You may need up to 50g of carbs per hour but some runners seem to get by on less and you may be one of these runners as you are light. What carbs per hour have you taken before and how have you felt? A little more history may help me decide on how much to have per hour. But my initial thoughts are one sweet every 15minutes or 2 jelly babies, this may seem a lot to you so if really think this is not doable reduce to 24-25g per hour and have over two feedings say at 30, 60mins, 90mins etc

    Ive given her a little bit more information and will let you know her reply as soon as she has got back to me.
  • Ruths reply when I asked if milkshakes were just as good as protein drink;

    Sarah, regarding milkshakes you do need to be wary about calorie content and your energy budget (how much calories you can eat to maintain a heathy body composition balanced with racing weight). You weigh very little, so of less concern for you, but for Adrian I would not suggest he adds 500ml each day of flavoured milk (sorry for talking about you being your back Adrain!) everyday but a glass of around 200ml at lunch may be useful for Adrian whether from milk (lesser calories) or even a milk shake. However, 500ml of a milkshake post race or long runs is a great recovery drink for most but as a day to day drink just be wary of the added calories if need to watch their weight- it is all about balance.

    Here are some examples of calories, carb and protein content:

    Pint of skimmed milk: 218kcal, 28g carbs and 19g protein

    For goodness shake (500ml): 266-315kcal, 50g carbs & 17g protein

    Sainsbury flavoured milk (500ml): 350kcal, 49g carbs & 19g protein

    Frijj (500ml): 325kcal, 52g carbs, 18.5g protein

    Nesquik power and 400ml skimmed milk: 171kcal, 50g carbs, 14g protein

    Let me know if this makes sense!
  • Mr PuffyMr Puffy ✭✭✭
    Morning, so is the JS choc milk I drink as good as For Goodness Shakes then?
  • Hey hey, Italy is my favourite place too! Maybe we should look at some races there- I have this book- 'the world's ultimate running races' and there are quite a few in Italy including one Seb Coe speaks about in his autobiography. Cinque mulini(I think) which means 5 mills (not 5 miles as seb had assumed)

    Haven't decided yet on this week- it's slightly messed up becaus of log run Monday, but I think I could be ok on an easy run tonight- 4 miles.

    Going to Dublin tomorrow night for work until Friday, so I may not be able to be so militant about my running, but the weekend will be 8 miles race pace on sat, and I think 14 mile LSR on Sunday- I hope this isn't too much the week before the half? I think 8 miles at half mara pace will give me great confidence unless I come away from it feeling horrible...

    London is so close- so annoyed my holiday in France is when the race is on so I'll be running 20 miles on that day and hopin I can watch the marathon on the tv in the morning for inspiration!!
  • Hey Sarah,

    Sounds like training is going great image

    Love all the nutritional advice from Ruth - I've actually found the nutritional side of things surprisingly interesting (yeah, ok, I'm a geek). That doesn't mean I always make the healthiest/best choices... but it is interesting nonetheless!

    Angela well done again on your run - sounds like it's going really well!

  • Mr PuffyMr Puffy ✭✭✭

    Evening, how did the session go Sarah? Quick tempo run tonight, a mile warm up and then 4 milesprogressive with a little warm down and back in time for football on TV image

     Distance    Split pace
    1.00    9:08
    2.00    7:48
    3.00    7:38
    4.00    7:30
    5.00    7:32
    5.35    9:22

    Tomorrow is 8 or 9 but a little easier than last week I think, then push again on Thursday.


  • Hi Mr certainly looks that way. Ive been getting the Frijj milkshakes as they're on offer in tescos...was going to get the for goodness shakes, but im glad I didnt waste my money now!

    Looks like you had some nice speedy miles in your training today. I do like running at a faster pace, its so more satisfying when you finish! I wish I was running tomorrow instead of playing getting more scared of picking up an injury by the minute!

    My session went well tonight running wise, but im not sure about my new trainers just yet. How was the football? I didnt get home until 21:30 so I missed it all!
  • Hi Angela...Ive that book too, 500 races, in 101 countries, choose your adventure!! It was a birthday present a year ago...there are some amazing races and photos in there. I would love to go on the inca trail and guess what they have a marathon there (p 288). I suggested it to my OH but he firmly said no! I will have a look at that one in Italy.

    How did your easy run go tonight? The rest might do you some good so think of it as a positive. I did a 20 miler the week (9 days) before a half and it didnt seem to cause any problems, but I had a good taper for 4 days before the half and I took the 20 steady.

    Doing 8 miles at HMP and then a LSR the following day might take it out of you a bit though. I would probably say either run saturday slightly slower or do less HMP miles...what does everyone else think as I could be completely wrong?

    I always remember my parents watching VLM on the TV when I was younger...I thought it was so boring and just wanted the cartoons on....20 years later and the theme tune brought tears to my eyes (last year) and if I wasnt running it this year, I would certainly be watching it.
  • Hi Steve. Ive enjoyed picking things up from Ruth as well as its all advice ive never had before. To be able to ask her direct questions which she appears to go out of her way to answer is fabulous.

    I hope your knee is on the mend
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 9 (day 64) Aim; gentle speed session (3m w/u, 0.5m easy/o.5m steady/0.5m HMP, c/d)


    I decided to wear my new trainers today as I considered my run to be fairly steady and a reasonable distance.

    I did a 3 m w/u, followed by 4 reps of the above and then a 0.5 m c/d. I was planning on doing a longer c/d but my new shoes were causing problems so I ended it slightly early.

    Miles splits

    1. 10-8:34 min/mls (gradually increasing the pace)

    2. 8:20 min/mls

    3. 8:06 min/mls

    4-9. 0.5m @ 8:49 min/mls; 0.5m @ 8:00 min/mls, 0.5m @ 7:03 min/mls x 4

    9.5 8 - 10 min/mls

    Total miles 9.5.

    My legs felt great today. I had no residual aches or pains from the race on sunday. In fact they even felt great yesterday, something I was surprised at after my legs felt alittle tired and achey after Barcelona.

    I decided to wear my new trainers to bed them in. They were fine up until 5 miles when they appeared to start irritating the bottom of my left foot. It later went away but then returned just as I started my cool down, the reason why I cut it slightly short (but walked for 4 mins instead). Im not sure why they would cause the bottom of my foot to feel uncomfortable as I wear orthotics which I transferred from my current trainers to my new ones so my feet should be use to these. Now I cant decide what to do with London, do I continue trying to bed these new trainers in or should I just wear the ones I have been training in so far (which ive had since august)?
  • Further dietary advice from Ruth (first my experience of race fuel last year)

    I think I like the idea of mixing them up...3 shot blocks and 2 jelly babies per hour as least the babies just dissolve in my mouth, no effort involved.

    So far I havent really been having much on my training runs this year. Ive either had nothing or ive had a jelly baby at mile 14, 16 and 18. Last week I decided to try the shot blocks but only had one at mile 13 and one at mile 16.

    During my last half I had one jelly baby at mile 10 but then I didnt feel like I needed anything more.

    At London last year I think I had about 5 shot blocks, I think I had my first one at about mile 12 and then one every 3 miles. I felt great up until mile 16 and then it was like someone had switched a switch and I suddenly felt tired and as though I had had enough and I wanted it to end. After about mile 23 I found it hard to concentrate and focus on things. I kept getting an urge to have jelly babies but when I saw people handing them out, the thought of having one made me feel quite nauseous so I didnt have one. My second half of the marathon was 7 mins slower than the first and the last 10 miles were not very enjoyable. I dont know if this matters or not, but the amount of water I drank also increased significantly in the last 6 miles.

    Once the race had finished I couldnt stomach anything all day/evening.

    As you can see I really messed up last year with fuel on race day (and probably the day before aswell), I really want to make sure that this doesnt happen again.

    Im doing an 18 miler on friday and a 20 mile race a week on sunday when I want to practice what im going to take pre and during the race.

    Ruths reply;

    I do think London may have been a fuelling issue for you. 16/17miles is well documented as hitting the wall miles when not got this right.Once you have got to this stage it is hard to come back from it, so preventing is key. You would have been so depleted by the end of the race and stomaching anything would have been hard in this state. In a half, many will let away with no fuel so no surprise you felt fine during a half. I have pushed the target 26.2 runners to use the half marathon as a gel practice for Paris, not because they needed them over this distance. I would go with the drip feed this year but start early and I really think this may make the difference for you. Practice race morning eating and also increase carbs in the 2-3 days before, cut down on calories from protein and fat to a minimal. I can write up what a carb load would look like for a 50kg runner (400-500g carbs) as I did this for another 50kg runner on the webchat on Friday so if you do not mind I can cut and paste this so you can see what this would look like for a light runner.
  • Hi Steve, thanks for the encouragement! Feels so good for this running to be going well. This time last year my dad passed away from cancer, and whilst I realised it affected all other parts of my life I hadn't clocked that it could affect my running too as I found the running to be therapy- as a result 2012 was a year of getting injuries mixed up with overtraining, which was kind of ok as most of the races I had entered got cancelled.

    Sarah I just mis-read ur last post as taking ur new trainers to bed and thought what a weirdo!!! I mean, I like new kit, but taking it to bed is going a step too far!!

    I'd be up for inca trail if I had the cash to do it- I've managed to get to do all the running holidays I want with my fianc?? because I actually organise them whereas left to him we might still be contemplating our summer 2013 holiday in December image. my friend in NYC, her hubbie is a runner, so when we hang out its quite good as me and him can go run whilst our other halves laze about-

    I think ur right about this weekend- I'll take both runs at an easy pace perhaps putting a couple hmp miles in, but not too many. I'm having dreams that I could do even better than my target of 1:57 for the half, so I'm contemplating what pacing to do for the race...
  • Morning Sarah!

    That's annoying about your new trainers. I've got to go and buy some new ones too. I'd hoped that my current ones would hold out until Paris, but when I wear them for over 10 miles I end up with sore footpads. Think I've given them a bit of abuse though with all the snow running and floods that I've been through.

    What are you planning to do?

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Sarah - Ruth wrote that up for me. Plan was to try it out for my HM last weekend but unfortunately the hangover kind of got in the way! I'll try it again this week.

    Definitely practise your race fuelling in your long runs. I have been known to have certain tummy issues in the past and this always makes me nervous. Unfortunately there's no rhyme or reason to it. I think cutting down in the protein and fat may help. I'm still semi lurgified but hoping another couple if lazy days should see me right.

    Hope today's session went well.
  • Hi Angela.....just had to double check what I had wrote then to make sure I hadnt taken them to bed!!

    Sorry to hear about your father passing away last year. My mum first took up running when my nanan passed away, she found it very therapeutic as well.

    Your OH sounds just like mine. He has needed a new wing mirror cover since christmas 2011 for example and he still hasnt got round to getting still has a christmas pudding container gaffa taped to it!

    Have you decided what pace your going to go for yet? I would probably say start of just slightly quicker than your previous chosen pace (e.g 5 sec /mile ) and then you can see how you can always slow/speed up as required then. If you end up speeding up throughout the race and finish strong its such a confidence boost.
  • Hi sarah...thats were my new ones seem to irritate my left foot, its so frustrating. It didnt happen the first time I wore them (only did 3.8 miles) but my knee didnt feel right. The second time I wore them it came on at 5 miles. If I kept wiggling my toes it eased, but i dont want to be doing this for 26 miles and it could have changed my gait slightly due to the discomfort. Im hoping that they just need to be bedded in more as normally I wear my new trainers for 4-5 miles for a few runs to start with, and then increase the distance slowly, not go from 3.8 - 9.5 miles. Im going to try walking around in them all day at the weekend too.

    Im sure my old trainers would get me round London. They still feel fine at the moment, almost like im not wearing anything. Ive never done huge miles so in theory my shoes should last more weeks than those runners that are running double my distance.
  • Evening Minni, I did wonder if it was the one that she wrote for you which you had put on your thread. Im going to try with the fuel during fridays training run this week to see how I go. I quite like the fact that you can go on a long run and then come home and eat something nice, big and proper, I dont really want to be snacking on shot blocks and jelly babies....but I know it has to be done. Therefore this friday and at east hull 20 I will be trying it my marathon day fuel out. I will also try to carbo load as per Ruths advice before East Hull and see how I get on.

    Sorry to hear that your still ill. There are so many stubborn illnesses circulating at the moment, I feel like im walking on egg shells at work. Hopefully by the weekend you will be a 100% for your half. Hows the nerve pain?
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 9 (day 65) Aim; Netball match

    Ive been nervous all day about this game. Think im reading about too many injuries and getting far to anxious and paranoid about picking something up as my training is going so well...its almost like its too good to be true.

    I managed to get to the match only 10 minutes before it started so I did a quick warm up running round the courts 3 times and then doing drills up and down them. Initially I was going to be C today but due to injury (2 people in our team are currently out) I ended up playing WD. I couldnt work out if this would be better or not. It involved less running around so in theory there should be a lower risk of something going wrong, but then there is more standing around letting your legs go cold, before having to sprint of again.

    ....anyway it didnt matter, I managed to get through the whole game injury free (phew) and we won. To be completely honest I didnt even care about the score, my main aim was to get through the game un harmed! 2 more matches to go!!!!!

    I forgot to say yesterday that I did my resistance training before my run.
  • Ruths advice on carbo loading the day before VLM (which I will also be trying the day before East Hull 20);

    The food that I have posted will appear a lot for you as you only weigh 49kg . For you I would only recommend you have 400-500g when carb loading and as mentioned above cut out all the extras fat and even protein to keep the overall calories down,

    So a plan for you could look like this:

    Breakfast: 50g cereal & 150ml milk with one slice of toast with honey/jam and 200ml of fruit juice

    Snack: 500ml milkshake or medium banana and 500ml of fruit juice/squash/cordial

    Lunch: 2 slice of thick bread with banana and honey filling , 150g pot of yogurt or medium baked potato and beans

    Snack: bagel and honey/jam (split in tow and have over full afternoon) and 500ml of cordial/squash.

    Evening meal: 90g dried weight pasta/rice and tomato based sauce and 300ml of fruit juice or a chopped fruit & pot of yoghurt (150-200g)

    Before bed: ceral bar or 1 slice of toast and jam.

    This is around 450g of carbs.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Well done on another netball match out the way.

    I ran this morning - should have been 6 but I slept in so only managed 3! When I run I start to feel bunged up so something is still lingering but nothing too bad.

    I'm definitely going to try the above this Saturday. I'd misread it as bread and potato at lunchtime, not one or the other - I thought that was a lot to eat!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Also meant to add ... I've had a bit of a dodgy tummy all week. Again, not ill but always feels as if it could go either way. Do you think drinks such as Actimel help with this?
  • Hi Sarah,

    Not decided on pacing yet, and probably not in the best place to decide.  Woke up with awful headache this morning, which cancelled my plans to go for a gentle run before my meetings in Dublin this morning.  I always feel awful this time of the month....image totally dehydrated no matter what I do, and well, headache that doesn't go away,, made worse this time by getting on a plane last night.

    Meetings done for the day, just working on some emails before totering off to the gym for an 8 miler on a treadmill... ugh... I might have to spice it up by going on the rowing machine instead.  Too rainy to go outside (or rather inappropriate kit brought for such).

    The time I ran my 7 mile pace a few weeks ago was average 8:45m/ml so given I will have tapered, and had an extra month of training, I think I should be able to aim for that pace for the whole race?  What do you think?


  • Mr PuffyMr Puffy ✭✭✭

    Evening, I've had a dicky tummy too this week.

    Well, this evening I have had to come home after  half mile, my left leg has shooting pains up and down from the knee, not good!  I usually get an episode of knee pain once during a campaign, I hope this is it for this mara.  I ran on Tuesday OK but became aware of it yesterday, so I rested and we went out for a Pizza.  Still plenty of time to get over it so not panicking.

    Mrs P is going to Netball tonight I might go and watchimage

  • Evening Minni...I always have the opposite whether I have a cold or not...a runny just runs more when im unwell. I can see both a runny and blocked nose being problematic though. The sleep in and less miles will have probably done you some good if something is still lingering. Im just hoping that your a 100% on sunday and that you have benefitted from some rest to get your sub 1:30.

    Im not a huge fan of fruit wondering if I would be allowed to just eat fruit or have a smoothy instead. I know Ruth said to cut down on your fruit and veg, but surley fruit juice is the same.

    I think actimal and those kind of things are a bit of a gimick to tell you the truth although I use to think that about benocol marge and yogurt until ive seen people who have used it and have lowered their cholesterol.

    Ive seen so many people today with stomach bugs, coughs and colds, flu and other infections. Ive washed my hands so much that they hurt!
  • Sorry to hear that youve not been feeling your best today and missed your run this morning. I think you did well just to think about running this morning with your flight yesterday and being away from home.

    How did it go in the gym this evening? I get so bored on the rower and always end up giving up after 5-10 minutes. I much prefer the TM but im finding it more and more difficult to go on it the more I run outside.

    How much quicker is that per min/ml than your previous pace?
  • Evening Mr P. Sorry to hear about your knee. I hope its nothing serious? My left knee felt a little odd for an hour or two after my steady 3 miles this evening in my new trainers...I think im going to have to put them to one side and just wear my old ones for London. My old ones are not causing me any problems but they are 7 months old now.

    Did you make it to netball?? what did you think ? Does your wife play indoors or outside?
  • Mr PuffyMr Puffy ✭✭✭
    I stayed in in the end Sarah, but she scored two goals if that's what you have? She plays indoors, she has been going to "back to netball" for a while, she really enjoys it. I've had a good session with the foam roller and a hot bath and slathered my leg in Voltarol so I'll see how it is tomorrow. I will def. cut back Sundays run to 18 though then build again. I'm quite prepared to defer if necessary I am not going to waste my place limping round.
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 9 (day 66) Aim; resistance training + 3 miles steady.

    Well what a busy on call I had. The morning and lunch time was manageable, but the afternoon was not very pleasant. Had 6 extras and 2 late visits both of which being 15 mins drive away to get to. Luckily two of my colleagues saw a couple of my extras when I had to dash out on one of my visits. By the time I had finished and left work tonight it was gone 8pm....managed a nice twelve our shift with only a 5 minute break when I sat down to discuss a case with a colleague.

    I was so tempted to just drive straight home, and almost did, until I remembered that I had a pair of trainers that still needed bedding in.

    I went to the gym and did my resistance training and stretches and then ran a steady 3 miles in my new trainers....which are still not agreeing with me. They were fine whilst I was running, it was afterwards that I noticed a slight problem. This time my feet were fine and it was my left knee that just felt slightly uncomfortable after the run for an hour or so, before it resolved. Think im going to pack them away and get them back out after london.

    Miles reps;

    1 10:00 - 9:13 m/m

    2 9:05 m/m

    3 8:57 m/m

    Now im being naughty and drinking a baileys coffee...I just couldnt resist, end of the week and all that (for me)!
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