RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30

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  • Wow, you've done loads of those really long runs! I've only done a 17 miler (which wasn't part of my plan) that 15 mile XC which Sam Murphy said was ok to count as my 18 miler given the time I spent on my feet. Now my plan alternates between 13 and 20 each week, so I'll end up with 2 20s... Hmm hope it's enough



    Clive, I agree also on the swimming, though when I did it trainig for a triathlon last year, the more structured nature of the sessions made it more bearable, and could really feel my heart rate getting up.



    Looking fwd to hear about ur super long run Mr P!
  • Hmmph! Got up and fueled and hydrated for my run, now it's snowing like hell, and my instincts are that running in that won't be good for me- hopefully it'll clear up by the afternoon and I can do my run then- grr, so annoying!
  • Hi Dotty1, what a lovely message, thankyou for following and supporting me. I'm so glad that I've been able to help you train and provide some encouragement. Which marathons have you done before and where abouts are you starting at London?
  • Hi Angela, I think I have done more than what's normally advised so try not to worry. As I was already up to 13 miles on my long run before starting marathon training it made sense to do more long runs, although I have had some weeks, like last week where my longer run was 10 miles when normally it would have been much more. I also did an 18 instead of a half marathon due to it being cancelled in jan.



    I was mainly worried about my endurance when I entered marathon training as I knew my speed on shorter distances was ok. Therefore, for me, getting in as many long runs as possible was ideal to at least increase my confidence in running further but also hopefully to help me run further comfortably. Last year I only managed those two long runs before London and still managed to get a good time, so I've every confidence that you will do great to.



    We've had sun first thing, then some flurries of snow....its stopped now here so fingers crossed it has done for you to. Hope you have a good run.
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)



    Week 13 (day 89), aim; rest day



    I was up early this morning feeling extremely hungry and excited about a house viewing we had planned. I was right to feel excited as I've just found the perfect house what I want to move in to...just need to check with the mortgage lender that we can afford it now.



    With the exception of running from my car to the shop ( 100 yards) to get a jet wash token I plan on doing no further running today. I'm about to head to Liverpool so there might be some dancing involved tonight but no other exercise is planned.



    Legs feel fine today, ready for my planned 10 miles tomorrow.



    Happy running everyone
  • Where do you live Angela? It is a little cloudy now but was clear blue skies earlier, probably 2-3 degrees.

    Well, it all went to plan, except I forgot my Garmin and my spare water bottle; luckily I'd plotted the route last night and I had my phone for a stop watch. It was perfect weather, and I ran 21.48 miles in 3:13, almost spot on 9mm mile pace. I left the station just after 8 and got back 12:15 ish.

    I tried an ice bath but man did it make my feet hurt! I lasted a few seconds and leapt out.

    I think I could have done with a little more water, and I went straight out shopping afterwards and only just got back so I 've got a headache now but no nausea after 4 gels so that's good.

    So, as I enter taper, I've completed March with 3x22 milers and 2x20 milers, very pleased with the consistency. I have to be honest and say I think they've been a little too hard at 8:30-9mm miles to be able to turn in 8mm on raceday but the faster work is also paying dividends and I'll be working hard on those during taper.

    Have a great time in Liverpool Sarah, we're on the outskirts tomorrow for the Runcorn Bridge 5 mile race for Mrs P, it finishes in Hale.

  • Sarah - well done on your 22 miles, excellent stuff! All easy from here on. You must be very pleased. Nice timings as well. 

    Dancing in Liverpool? Night on the town I assume or is this cross training? Or have they signed you up for the next series of Strictly but you can't tell us yet?

    I went with the general consensus and did my 20 miler this morning. So glad I did. Despite having done two 20s and a 23 and all going well it's amazing what a two week gap can do to throw doubts into your mind. Foot was no problem for the first 5 miles - didn't feel it at all. From about 13 it started to threaten to spoil the party but it never came to anything and for the last 5 miles it was fine. I even managed MP for the last 3 miles. 

    If Minni, DS2, Ady and yourself hadn't all been so encoraging I would definitely have chickened out, so many thanks! I think the moral support is the single most valuable aspect of these forums. image

    Of course I'll have to see how the foot goes over the next couple of days to see if I got away with it but it usually siezes up within two hours and it hasn't done that this time so fingers crossed!

    Angela - there were several flurries of snow when I was out but thankfully it didn't come to anything. I hope it eased off and you were able to get out. There's nothing more annoying than getting all prepared and then the clouds come over and it starts pouring, hailing or snowing.

    Mr P - how the devil can you forget your Garmin when you go out? I sleep with mine on, I assumed everyone did that?image

    I used the old ice baths regularly on my last tow campaigns but they are extremely uncomfortable. I found them good for preventing DOMS but this year I just couldn't face it and so I haven't indulged. I had a poor man's ice bath anyway - no ice, just cold water and with a little hot added to take the edge off (was the only way I could get in). The ice bath equivalent of a lager top (and a weak one at that!)

    That's a great set of long runs you have under your belt. Your endurance must be tip top. How has the leg been? What marathon are you running?

    Sarah - forgot to say, that's great news on the house! Hope you manage to get it. Down here you have to be so quick or they get snapped up from under you. Best of luck!

    Clive - sorry to hear you're not managing to get the runs in that you'd like to. Has the new job started yet, I can't remember if you said? Will that give you more time to get out there or is it just because you're on call at the moment?

  • Hello all,

    Malcs,Sarah, mr p, yes the snow didn't last for too long- managed to get out at about half 11, though the cold made my breathing harder. Did the 8 miles (well 7.6, had to stop to buy bread) at my marathon pace, which is much much slower than my half mara pace, but I did find it really hard still. I think my legs still need to recover from my recent races- I have a sports massage on Tuesday, so hopefully that'll sort them out for the next few weeks of training.

    I live in Colchester, Essex, so whenever they predict snow I tend not to believe them, as so often our proximity to the warm North Sea turns snow clouds into rain clouds.



    I have to say that lack of garmin sometimes could stop me from running- on my run in London on Wednesday it bleeped low battery when I put it on, I almost got the train home to charge it before running... It lasted 4.93 miles of my 5 mile run image



    Funny u mention ice baths today, after Ruth's advice a few weeks ago I decided to try one today, given my legs were so mean to me in this run. It was a feeble bath of cold water, but I couldn't make it deep enough, so I kinda ice bathed the backs of my legs and my shins- I've also been sitting in my new compression socks ever since.

    Plan tomorrow is a 13 miler on my actual marathon course.



    Well done to all on ur super long runs! I have mt first 20 next weekend image
  • The cold weather...I don't have a cold, touch wood
  • Dotty1 - so glad you've delurked!

    malcs - you won't regret getting that 20 in.  One of my running buddies is a bugger for cutting his long runs a bit short - 'oh I'm sure 16 is plenty this weekend,' and I'm like 'NO'.  I think a lot of men (sorry for the generalisation but this is just my observation) don't particularly like the long runs so will find anyway to cut them short convincing themselves that they don't really need it anyway.  In do the same with short fast stuff and spent years just not doing it at all when all along it was what was missing. 

    Sarah - how exciting about the house and hope the run goes well today. 

    Puffy - you've got those long runs well and truly banked.  Well done.

    Angela - yes races can stay in your legs for quite a while.  Recovery is essential and take as long as it needs.

    I'm doing my final long run tomorrow, 20 with 10 at MP.

    The sun is shining here today but its still -3 with snow on the hills.

  • Hi Minni, happy Easter and thanks for the advice, I aborted my 13 after 2 miles today- legs still weren't having it. Hoping I can try again this evening as it might just have been morning stiffness....

    Good luck on your 20 tomorrow! image
  • Minni - many thanks. I think you're right, there will be physical benefits I'm sure but the main thing I' already not regretting is the psychological boost! I did my previous 20+ run two week's ago. I'd have felt a little nervous on race day if my last big one had been 5 weeks out.

    I do really like the long runs - more than the fast stuff to be honest. I just worry about the after effects. Fear of injury is the most likely reason I'd chicken out of doing one. Every marathon campaign so far has ended with me overdoing it towards the end and then panicking and stopping running almost completely for the last few weeks.

    Foot feels good today. Sometimes it can take a few days for niggles to reveal themselves so if all is well by midweek I'l be so happy. 

    Good luck with your last big one tomorrow. How are you feeling about the push to beat 3:15? That's quite some pace you have to maintain (7:25 ish?)

    We were up in Greenwich Park this morning. There's a Zippos circus on the Blue start at the moment. Hopefully the elephant dung will be all gone by the time you and Sarah arriveimage

    Or are you in the Park itself at the Red start? 

    Angela - oh no, what happened? Just feeling tired? Are you usually ok running in the mornings? I know some people are morning people whereas others can't stand it and much prefer evenings. Personally I detest running in the evening (even afternoon is quite bad).

    Your comment reminds me of the physio referral letter a mate of mine got from his doctor. He was having knee problems and the doc wrote "Mr X experiences approximately 20 minutes of morning stiffness" image

    I thought it was only a male thing but if you've got it then who am I to argue?image

  • Go Angela!

    Is it time for a list yet?  I'm London, Blue Start.

  • Hi Malcs, to be honest it was partly emotional too- last year on Easter was the last time I spent with my dad before he was taken to hospital- he died 6 days after Easter, and I was thinking of this a lot whilst running, so I stopped to have a cry, then I just decided that it would be such a battle to get thru the run that I should just try again later... Thanks for ur post tho, it's made me chuckle image



    Mr P... A list?!? I don't understand?
  • Malcs - I'm feeling as confident as I can be at the moment. If course this is subject to change!



    I'm on green, as is Sarah.



    Blue Start: Mr Puffy

    Green Start: Sarah, Minni
  • Angela - Sorry to hear about your dad. I think that's a totally acceptable reason to abort a run. Well done for even venturing out.

    Minni - great to hear that you're feeling good about it. Totally know what you mean about it being subject to change. I think all runners are the same no matter how fast they are. The last 3 weeks is more about staying sane and keeping your mind from beating the living daylights out of you than it is about running image

    Green start eh? I wasn't thinking - that's where all the celebs start isn't it, of course the two of you are starting thereimage

  • Hello all!

    Thank you for the nice welcome to the thread. Hope you've all indulged in as much chocolate and hot cross buns as me this weekend. I've been using marathon training as my excuse.



    Sarah - my first marathon was Edinburgh 2011 ( 3.48). I had always wanted to run a marathon and as I had just turned 40, I set myself the challenge. As Edinburgh is my home town I was able to train on part of the course. My second one was Paris 2012 (3.41). It was an amazing experience, great support all round the course. Very funny hearing some random french lady shouting "Allez Dotty, Allez!". RRR is going to have a great time next week. My third marathon was Edinburgh again 5 weeks after Paris. I was just running for fun as I wasn't sure if my legs had recovered from Paris. It was a very sunny day too so I was really shocked to run it 6 minutes faster than Paris. (3.35). I am hoping my luck continues for London so I can nip under 3.30. If not I'm signed up for Edinburgh (again!!) and Berlin in September so I can have another go.

    Fingers crossed that you've found your new home.



    Angela - I'm sure your next run will be cracking! I've had a few runs like yours today when I lost my mum. I've found running has really helped me cope.



    Malcs - glad to hear your foot is okay after your 20 miler.



    I'm on the Green start too. Any advice about the course would be greatly appreciated!
  • Mr Puffy wrote (see)

    I tried an ice bath but man did it make my feet hurt! I lasted a few seconds and leapt out.

    So, as I enter taper, I've completed March with 3x22 milers and 2x20 milers, very pleased with the consistency. I have to be honest and say I think they've been a little too hard at 8:30-9mm miles to be able to turn in 8mm on raceday but the faster work is also paying dividends and I'll be working hard on those during taper.

    Have a great time in Liverpool Sarah, we're on the outskirts tomorrow for the Runcorn Bridge 5 mile race for Mrs P, it finishes in Hale.

    Hi Mr P. Congratulations on another fabulous long run. How has the legs and knee been since? Im still in shock with 3 x 22 training runs. I really dont think I could have done that many. The 20's felt much nicer!

    You are one brave man...I dont think I would ever have the bottle to get into an ice bath. image

     

    Just think though, you will have had a three week taper before marathon day and not have done speed training and lots of other difficult runs in the week or two building up to it.


    Had a fabulous time in Liverpool, was lovely to let my hair down, drink cocktails and dance the night away. Im going to try and not drink anything alcoholic now until after london...least I went out with a bang last night! image

  • Ah Dotty you're just up the road from me! I'm just of the English side of the Border. Heading up to Edinburgh tomorrow car hunting. I've run Edinburgh twice and to be honest I think London is a better course. And the green start is where it's all at! Sounds to me like your heading sub 3:30. image
  • Malcs wrote (see)

    Sarah - well done on your 22 miles, excellent stuff! All easy from here on. You must be very pleased. Nice timings as well. 

    Dancing in Liverpool? Night on the town I assume or is this cross training? Or have they signed you up for the next series of Strictly but you can't tell us yet? I went with the general consensus and did my 20 miler this morning. So glad I did. Despite having done two 20s and a 23 and all going well it's amazing what a two week gap can do to throw doubts into your mind. Foot was no problem for the first 5 miles - didn't feel it at all. From about 13 it started to threaten to spoil the party but it never came to anything and for the last 5 miles it was fine. I even managed MP for the last 3 miles.  If Minni, DS2, Ady and yourself hadn't all been so encoraging I would definitely have chickened out, so many thanks! I think the moral support is the single most valuable aspect of these forums. image I used the old ice baths regularly on my last tow campaigns but they are extremely uncomfortable. I found them good for preventing DOMS but this year I just couldn't face it and so I haven't indulged. I had a poor man's ice bath anyway - no ice, just cold water and with a little hot added to take the edge off (was the only way I could get in). The ice bath equivalent of a lager top (and a weak one at that!) Sarah - forgot to say, that's great news on the house! Hope you manage to get it. Down here you have to be so quick or they get snapped up from under you. Best of luck!

    Hi Malcs. Im so glad that you managed to get a 20 in this weekend. I agree with you with regards to these forums they do encourage and spur you on. Im glad that your foot was ok and you managed to get some MP miles in at the end. Welcome to the taper image

    I really dont think I would be able to face a bath of cold/luke warm water either...im such a wimp image

    Liverpool was great...I got very merry on wine, cherry brandy, champagne (celebrating a friend passing his final GP exams), mojito and pina colada....I ended up dancing for about 3 hours in the end. Really enjoyed it as its been a while since ive had the chance to dance the night away and enjoy myself with my friends. I would love to go on strictly but I dont think im famous enough unfortuantley image

    We havent put an offer in on the house as yet as chris wouldnt do it whilst I drove us to liverpool and then the estate agents was closed today (and tomorrow), and im waiting for the ok from the mortgage lender...fingers crossed it will be ours by the end of the week!

     

  • Hi Angela, im so glad that the snow didnt last long and you managed to get your run in. I always think that the laws of average say that your going to have so many bad runs....if its during a training run, it means that its less likely to be in a race!!

    Sorry to hear about your dad passing away this time last year. I hope that your ok and that you have been able to celebrate his life this weekend. Im sure he will be looking down feeling extremly proud of you and your achievements.

    Its so strange how much we come to rely on technology. My parents were laughing at me last week..."they never had a fancy watch" "they never ate on a marathon or drank any water" , how things have changed!

    How did you legs feel after your cold dip and wearing the compression socks?

    Did you do your 13 miles this evening?

    Bet you cant wait to get your first 20 out of the way next weekend, im sure your legs will be feeling much better by thenimage

  • Hi Minni, -3, has it really been that cold. It seemed quite warm and sunny in liverpool today, it was quite nice.

    Good luck with your 20 tomorrow. Sounds like a tough one, but im sure you will ace it image.

    If I set myself a running distance to do, I have to do it, I dont think I could let myself cut it short unless I was injured

  • Malcs wrote (see)

    Your comment reminds me of the physio referral letter a mate of mine got from his doctor. He was having knee problems and the doc wrote "Mr X experiences approximately 20 minutes of morning stiffness" image

    I thought it was only a male thing but if you've got it then who am I to argue?image


    Lol, image

    ew, elephant dung...im glad im on the green start

    Its our other halfs I feel sorry for during this taper....their going to get it bad, well chris is anyway!

  • Where did you go Sarah? Mrs P works in Liverpool and if I meet her out of work to go out we go to a bar called Bellinis but it's a just a little off centre. The city has changed so much recently.



    It must be very difficult Angela at such a time of year. Mrs P's mum died when she was very young in March and Mother's day is sometimes hard for her when it falls close to the day.



    I forgot to mention, mrs P had a cracking race this morning, a five mile pb and ninth in her category.



    Good luck with the house Sarah, hope it's got your name on it!
  • Hi Dotty1,

    I love edinburgh. Im going in july for my best friends hen party and really cant wait. So far the only thing we have arranged though is a spa day for the saturday...im going to get my head in gear and start planning everything else after london.

    You did fabulously in your previous marathons especially with edinburgh last year. It was such a hot day. One of my friends was running and I can remember worrying about him and the heat, especially with it being a late start. I think you should easily be able to get a sub 3:30 if you can get 3:35 5 weeks after a marathon! image

    I had a very congested start at london last year but I was in the red area. Ive been told that the green start is much better (once you get past the celebs, according to Minni). The race is very flat. I can remember wanting a hill or down hill section just for something different. There is so much support on the course. It thinned out at about mile 16 (which is when I started to struggle last year) but then the crowds increased again after a few more miles. I would definatley say wear a top with your name on it...everyone shouting my name kept me going last year. I think there was drink stations every mile from the 3 mile onwards, there was also showers ? every 5 miles?? There is a bit of the course which is out and back (which again was where I struggled last year, as I always feel that its pointless running on the same road twice....why not somewhere different)

    Its a lovely course with fabulous support, but its the only marathon I have done so im unable to compare it with anything else though.

     

    Running over the bridge was my best part!

  • Wow Mr P,sounds like the mrs had a cracking race. I must say the thing that really sucks with losing him now is that although I've pretty much got back to life as normal, holidays are still really hard as his absence is very noticeable.



    Dotty- I hope this doesn't become a regular feature of my runs- usually when I think about him when running it helps get me thru a tough spot as I appreciate the Health I have That allows me to be out running. Slightly concerned now that I'm doing east London half on the 1 yr anniversary of his death and strangely it starts at the exact same time too image but it has been tough in general the last few weeks as this time last year we knew he didn't have long.
  • Hi Puffy, I was just about to ask how Mrs P did this morning. Please give her a huge congrats from me.

    Im not sure where we went to be honest. One place looked like a house. We went upstairs and there was mirrors everywhere...it was a good job I was following someone else as I would have probably walked into one (as I wasnt wearing my lenses at the time). Another place we went to was downstairs beneath the road....played lots of old school music and served pina colada in pinapples!

  • Angela Isherwood 2 wrote (see)
    Slightly concerned now that I'm doing east London half on the 1 yr anniversary of his death and strangely it starts at the exact same time too image but it has been tough in general the last few weeks as this time last year we knew he didn't have long.


    I think you will do amazingly, stay positive, and run your heart out for him.

  • Sarah / Malcs thanks for ur kind words... I perked up later on today when Oxford won the boat race!! Clean sweep for Oxford!! And half the crew are at my college so even more proud!! That was actually a really nice memory last year as we all watched a very memorable boat race together and for a couple of hours even dad forgot he was sick!



    So legs post ice bath- i definitely think this helped me not to feel stiff the rest of the day

    Compression socks- the ones I have whils they offer decent support whilst running I'm not sure that they are as tight as they could be for recovery. I'm going to cycle to a friends tomorrow-hopefully a bit of crosstrainjng will get my legs to behave because no, i didn't do my 13 miles today- bailed after 2...
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)


    Week 13 (day 90), aim; 10 miles (3m w/u, 6m @ MP, 1m c/d)

     

    I wasnt sure how I would be today after the celebratory night out last night, but luckily I wasnt too bad. I never use to get hangovers, but a year or so I did start to get them. Luckily 9 times out of 10 im ok, but after the wine, champagne and cocktails I was quite worried when I opended my eyes.

    By the time I got home from liverpool it was 5pm and any hangover I may have had, had truely disappeared.

    I started my warm up at 11 min/mls, quickly increasing the pace to 8:34 min/mls for the first 3 miles.

    The next 6 miles I did at MP, which I chose to be 7:47 min/mls. The first two miles seemed quite difficult, but the last 4 were very comfortable. I have a feeling that the increase in pace was to blame for the initially difficulty until my legs adjusted.

    I did my last mile at between 8:34 and 8:57 min/mls, before then doing the TM c/d.

    Initially I had planned to to run outdoors today but because I wanted to do my weights I chose the gym instead. Unfortunatley I ran out of time and didnt get to do my weights though.

    I had the TM on hills setting, level 1, so the incline varied between 0 and 1.5% again

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