RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30



  • Had a wonderful day Minni, hope you did too. Think cooking, cleaning and entertaining are far more exhausting than running! Never washed so many pots in one day before!

    I'm hoping to do a five mile race in the morning, depending on the weather and how I feel in the morning after eating and drinking far to much today- dont think it will be a day for a PB!

    Congratulations Carl on getting out there today, 6 miles is fabulous, far better than my poxy three! It's so hard to run slower but hopefully we will get use to it. I have a feeling I might be plodding tomorrow (if i run) after too much turkey, Christmas cake and pudding, baileys and wine, I feel double my normal size! Thankyou for promising to pop in. Hope you've had a fabulous Xmas so far.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Well done Carl. I promise it will pay off. I, like so many others, spent years not making any real improvemt in my race times, even though I could bang out good training runs. I used to finishes every race with a feeling of frustration and couldn't understand why I wasn't getting any faster. I figured I just reached my potential and that was that. But by making simple adjustments to training - running the majority of miles slower than I had been and running the faster stuff faster, the quicker race times came naturally.

    Hope the race goes well Sarah!
  • Sounds like everyone had a good day yesterday including getting a run inimage

    I would reiterate Minni's point about slowing down general training runs to get faster.  I had a habit of thinking just because I could run 8m/ms then that's what I would have to do every training run and unless I was there or there abouts I wasn't happy with my runs, but eventually after messing about for too many years I saw the light and slowed to get fasterimage

    Enjoy the race Sarah and anyone else doing Christmas races.  Off out for run with PRF and BR now and they'll be going slow for me for sure...image

  • Hi Sarah!

    Glad you had a great Christmas!! Hope your 5 mile race went well this morning!

    Did you wear your Christmas fairy outfit? I didn't get my Xmas parkrun in yesterday - did 5 miles in the dark instead. Seemed like a good idea at the time! image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Hope the 'slow' run went well today Hilly. At what point did you see the light and change your training? ie how long had you been running for, what were your PBs, and what did you then achieve?

    How was the race Sarah?
  • Hi Minni, I had been running for around 7 years before deciding to train properly.  I had plateaued for a number of years and was just happy to tootle about.  I did race and enjoy training, but never had the benefit of a forum like this as when I started the only really running information came from the magazine, say no more...image  I also suffered a lot of injuries in the early years - lower legs, shin splints, stress fractures, lower back problems and then found the RW forums in 2003 I think.  I started listening to advice from others and then got the benefit of Mike Gratton to guide me which resulted in a marathon pb of 3.14.53image  This is the link to my online thread with MG  which has my pbs at that time and this was my progression after that  As you can see since my best year of 2006 I have not really hit close to 3hours again, but have been in shape a few times to do so.  I'm 48 now and I think I might just give it one more go to achieve sub 3 paying more importance to the things I've ignored for a few years.  I had a friend who is the same age who did sub 3 last year and she has renewed my motivation to give it a goimage

    Sarah - hope you had a good race.  A few friends of mine were there today, so have seen a few pictures.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    I'll have a read over that. Have you listened to the Derek Ivens interview on last week's marathon talk?

    I am 43 and wonder how long I can continue to improve. There are loads of men on these forums who are continuing to get faster as they get older but not so many ladies, but they are out there. Was this the first time your friend had gone under 3?
  • I haven't listened to it yet, but will do soimage

    Yes, I believe it was my friends first time of sub 3.  She had got close a few times and had run a 1.22-1.23 HM.  I have another friend again the same age who has done it twice in the last couple of years so yes there are women out there still doing it.

    What are your pbs?

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Definitely give it a listen Hilly. So you got your sub 3:15 with the coaching? Adnd did you then continue with it? Going down to 2:56 must have been an amazing feeling.

    My PBs are:

    5k 20:39

    10k 42:57

    HM 1:32:40

    Mar: 3:20:40
  • Evening all. I've really enjoyed reading the last few entries, thankyou. To someone like me who has only been running a couple of years, it sounds crazy that training slower (for long runs) can make you faster so its nice to have evidence that it does work. Thankyou Minni and hilly.

    I didn't actually do too bad in the race today, but didn't feel my best all the way round. The first bit was a nice down hill stretch, but at the bottom of the hill we all had to slow and stop for some horses that we had spooked on the first lap. After that section it was like a mud bath and I almost lost a trainer, this lasted about a third of a lap and was followed by a long section on the road on a steady but increasing gradient (against the wind) before doing the loop again.

    The full run was 4.25 miles according to my watch and I managed to complete it in 30:12, just over 7min/mls, which considering the mud obstacle I was quite pleased with. Think I was 4th lady so just missed out on a bottle of wine......but I'm guessing the bottle I had last night was one of the reasons why the race felt so tough today so I was quite happy to miss out!

    Hilly I'm looking forward to reading through your links later this week when I can get on a proper computer! Who do your friends run for! I have a feeling I will look shocking if I was managed to get caught on camera!

    Most women I know seemed to peak between 35-45.

    Hi Sarah. Glad you managed to get your Christmas Day run in. How much do you have to do on New Year's Day?
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Sarah well done. That sounds very good after a bottle of wine and in the mud. Did you warm up at all?
  • Im ashamed to say i only did about 4 mins of gentle jogging from the car park to the start!
  • I didn't really do any warming up previously except a few stretches so 4 mins does feel like a lot for me.....but reading the threads on here I seriously need to do much more warming up!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    4 minutes?!! Long warm ups are a great way to erm, warm up as well as helping get a few more miles in and should start really slow. I try and do 2 miles at least. I did 5 before the recent xc.

    If you're just doing 4 minutes do you not get out of breath quickly when you start?
  • I felt asthmatic I was so out of breath in places!
  • I was initially worried about tiring my legs out if I warmed up for too long, but researching it, most good runners do a much longer warm up and don't seem to jepadise their race!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    I know what you mean. When I started doing the longer ones I thought that too but it doesn't, if they're run slow enough, or at least starting slow and gradually getting the speed up. Some of my club mates think I'm mad when I go off to do them.
  • Evening Sarah & Minni! - Wow it's really interesting reading about the warming up! I definitely don't do enough either. Will have to make a special effort too - Sarah let us know how you get on with longer warm ups!

    Sarah - I've got 7 miles on New Year's Day, 4 x 1 mile at 7-7.15 min/mile with 3 mins in between. I think the rest of the mileage is made up with the warmup / cooldown. How about you?

  • sarah tinsel toes osborne wrote (see)

    Most women I know seemed to peak between 35-45.

    Oh dear, that doesn't bode well for me image

    Well done Sarah. I also don't warm up enough, maybe a five minute brisk walk or jog. Maybe I should start doing more.

  • Ladies please warm up before you race or do speedwork, the older you get the more you need it! I always do at least 3K before any race / spped session other than a marathon where you can warm up over the first 3 or 4 K, 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Hilly - remember your thread from back in the day.image. I ran my first marathon in 2003 and that's when I discovered these forums. Up to page 7!
  • Agree with DD.  I picked up a calf problem in summer from inadequate warm up, having previously considered myself indestructable.  At 42 I'm having to be a lot smarter.  Lack of warm up will find you out one day, contrary to advice being handed out on other threads.

  • Sarah - well done on the race!  4th can't be sniffed atimage  Yes as others have said 4 minutes of warming up isn't really a warm-up, but I think it is a mistake we all make at the beginning thinking that warming up will take too much out of the bank before the race.  The thing about warm-ups is they should start very, very slow and gradually as the muscles warm-up you're more able to get moving and closer to race pace in the last few hundred metres.  Depending on the distance of the race I will do anything from 1.5-3 miles with 4 x 100m strides followed by a few drills and stretches.  I do sometimes turn up for parkruns and not warm-up but then I'll warm-up within the first mile.

    Sorry just realised my friends were at Chevin Chase yesterday, which for some reason I thought I'd read you were doing.  They were from Rothwell Harriers and Hyde Park Harriers.image

    Minni - yes I went sub 3.15 with the coaching.  I was very naive about running in those daysimage  I did continue to receive support from MG to get to 3:06 and posted on a thread he was on before getting 2:56 and yes it was an amazing feeing! 
    Did you post back then as well Minni?

    Your pbs are very good and no reason why you shouldn't go sub 3:15!  Is it London you're going next year off the GFA start?

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Hilly - Green GFA start.  This will be my 7th London.  I did post back then but on the sub 3:30 threads and onto the sub 3:15 when I ran 3:31 on my third marathon.  However, it took me another 5 or so marathons to finally break 3:30.  A bit like you I was very naive!  Because I had such a good endurance base I thought I didn't need to do any interval training - just keep doing more of the same and the times would follow.  A mistake we all make. image   Power of 10  In the NE rankings I have the 7th ladies marathon this year and I'd really like to see if I could get that a bit higher.  

    Doing Edinburgh just after London was a big mistake this year and left me quite tired.  I seemed to suffer from various mild illnesses over the summer that didn't really stop me running but stopped me doing any quality.  So the autumn half marathons were the same as last year, around 92/93.  However, I ran the Newcastle marathon in 3:25 off no real marathon training and this was at a conservative pace.   This filled me with confidence that 2013 could be the year!



  • RunnyRunRun wrote (see)

    Sarah - I've got 7 miles on New Year's Day, 4 x 1 mile at 7-7.15 min/mile with 3 mins in between. I think the rest of the mileage is made up with the warmup / cooldown. How about you?

    Im aiming for 7 aswell....initially I was thinking about doing it as a speed session.....but now thinking about it it might be a more steady run as we are going to a friends for a meal and drinks on new years eve and it may get messy image but we will see!

  • Hilly wrote (see)

    Yes as others have said 4 minutes of warming up isn't really a warm-up, but I think it is a mistake we all make at the beginning thinking that warming up will take too much out of the bank before the race.  

    Sorry just realised my friends were at Chevin Chase yesterday, which for some reason I thought I'd read you were doing.  They were from Rothwell Harriers and Hyde Park Harriers.image



    Thankyou Hilly, it does seem like im not the only one in making the mistake of not warming up image but with yours and other peoples advice on here, it is one of the things im changing - hopefully your advice on here will save a few possible injuries in the future for myself and fellow readers, so thankyou image


    Phew.....panic awful pics of me caught on camera struggling yesterday!image



  • Minni, thankyou for the UKA link....I didnt realise all my runs would be listed there for me to see. Its made my day, except that it doesnt have my first few races that I did as I did them under my maiden name of Osborne, and now I do all my races (except those abroad due to my passport still being under osborne) under my married name of Attwood!


  • Minni - it seems a lot of people suffered virus this year.  I had some really strange virus whereby I thought I had something really bad wrong with me.  From July through to October I suffered severe muscle weakness, headaches, sleepiness and a fatigue that felt like my nervous system was being attacked.  Never had anything like it before. After blood tests could find nothing wrong with me I was then sent for a brain scan, but by the time the scan came through being cancelled twice I was over it and thankfully the doctor at the hospital said I didn't need the scan and even more thankfully there was nothing seriously wrong with me just some strange virus. Trying to run through it caused injury to my calf as all my muscles felt tight and strained, so it's only really since November I've been back running again properly.  I have now completed a few 50 mile weeks and am climbing back up.  Shouldn't take me long though as I'm used to higher mileage and my strength is my endurance.

    Sarah - power of 10 is great!  I'm not a fan of race pictures either, they always catch my worse sideimage


  • Making me feel guilty about lack of pre-race warm-up image

    Is there a race distance above which you wouldn't bother?  Say for example, using the early mile or two of a marathon to gradually warm-up and thereby not go out too fast?  Or do you change the amount of warm-up for different race distances?

  • The shorter the race, the more I would warm up.  For a marathon maybe just a few light strides.  For an 800m race I would try and do quite a lot of progressive running, drills and strides.

    Having said that, the slowest mile of my best two marathons was the first one.

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