High-fat meal 4 hours before long-slow runs

[Deleted User]

Hi,

I'm sure I read somewhere that eating a high-fat content meal 4 hours before exercise increased your ability to burn fat as a fuel. I'm not looking to lose weight, I'm just wondering if this could help my marathon time...

I know that when you run a fast marathon, most of your enery has to come from carbs. However, I imagine that there must still be at least a small amount of energy being produced from burning fat?

And if this is the case, might it not be worth doing some training to specifically target this aspect?

Does anyone do this (intentionally or otherwise!), and does it work?

WildWill

nope

WildWill

Fat dosenot metabolise by itself - carbohydrate as well as been a fuel for your body has a couple other purposes

1) Protien protection
2) fat metaboliseer


IE it helps stop you burning protein and muscle for a 2nd fuel sauce


and enables an efficant burn of fat as fuel to the require percentage



Also hugh fat meals are bad for lots of other reasons

The Road Runner

Although drinking coffee several hours before a marathon is known to encourage fat-burning in the marathon

[Deleted User]

WildWill,

Thanks for the info. I didn't fancy eating lard anyway.

As you seem knowledgeable about nutrition, could I ask another question, please?

When should you eat high-glycemic index carbs, and when should you eat low-glycemic index carbs? I have always tried to eat carbohydrates with as low glycemic index as possible, even when carbo-loading. However, I was reading an article yesterday that said high-glycemic index stuff that recommended the complete opposite. Any ideas about this?

WildWill

Hi GI - during and just after training

at other times stick to med and low where posible


but dont just look at things indervidually - look at the meal as a whole

adding protien to a meal lowers its GI

[Deleted User]

I had a full english breakfast before the FLM last year... Seemed to work for me...

Gravy, you write: "I know that when you run a fast marathon, most of your enery has to come from carbs. However, I imagine that there must still be at least a small amount of energy being produced from burning fat?
And if this is the case, might it not be worth doing some training to specifically target this aspect?"
That's the main benefit of long runs, isn't it?

[Deleted User]

WeCanMakeOurPlans...,

Thanks - I read a few articles touting the benefits of caffeine a while back. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for me though. Coffee before running gives me (and apparently lots of other people) stomach problems. People also suffer from other side-effects as well, such as a sudden drop in energy levels after a couple of hours running (caffeine "crash").

Therefore I'd certainly try it out in training first before you use it for a marathon.

WildWill

I sometimes use flat coke in long races / TRIs - comination of sugar and cafine can be good - alternate this with energy drink and water

[Deleted User]

NickJ,

It is certainly one of the benfits of long runs, along with building-up the heart muscles endurance, and building-up your legs resilience to a marathon-length duration of damaging eccentric muscle contractions.

I just wondered if you could enhance the fat-burning properties of long runs by eating a fatty meal before-hand, and whether this would lead to any lasting adaptations...

If it worked for the marathon, would this not imply that it would also be worth doing in training?

WildWill

But alas its a myth (i'm studdying to be sports nutritionist at the mo')

[Deleted User]

'not a myth according to 'the lore of running'...

I don't know... Am I the only one to also have full english before my long runs?

AndrewSmith

Your body responds mainly to the stresses put upon it. the intensity of your training will be the main factor in the fuel used. low intensity training will help develop your fat burning mechanism but if you use high intensity training to get fitter you will be able to burn fat at a higher relative intensity as your 'tick over' speed will have increased.

[Deleted User]

Wildwill,

I was just wondering whether the research which suggested that a high-fat meal doesn't help to increase performance might be flawed?

A high-fat meal usually causes the arteries to be constricted, and they only start to open again after four hours. Therefore performance would almost certainly not be enhanced.

However, there has been some research performed recently which showed that taking vitamin E or oatmeal along with the fatty meal maintains blood flow in the arteries at normal levels. Did the athletes in the study take either of these?

Also, if you have carbo-loaded successfully in the three days leading up to a race, then won't your muscle-glycogen levels be at maximum? And can you not top-up your liver glycogen levels by just drinking a carbo-loading drink 5 minutes before the race?

It just seems to me that the fatty meal has the potential to provide an addition available energy source for the race - could you provide with a reference for the research that discredited the idea, please?

Flying Ant

Do you eat a full english before every marathon, Nick J ?
So thats your secret weapon of success !!

I'll try it just before the Islwyn Half next March, then i'll try to keep up with you. (wishful thinking)

Flying Ant

Personalli i over-load with pasta, pizza, and other high carbs up to a week before a marathon, and take in lots of fluid the last 3 days before the race.
I tend to have plenty of energy to keep me going, the only problem i have is knowing when to put my 'foot on the gas', and when to 'ease off' properly !
Oh, and i know it might upset some people, but since i've packed in the dreaded alcohol my overall fitness has gained a hell of a lot.

[Deleted User]

There needs to be a distinguishing between "good" and "bad" fats. I find it hard to believe that the positives outweigh the negatives with regards to saturated fat, although the fatty acids should be in the bloodstream and many believe that this increases ones ability to PREFER fat as a fuel source (although as Will rightly says - "fat burns in a carbohydrate flame").
If you want to maximise fat utilisation by having fatty acids in the bloodstream (WW will tell you the text books disagree, but many experts DO agree) then you need "healthy" Omega 3,6 & 9 fats.
If you consider that research recently has suggested that taking on BCAA during long runs prevents muscle breakdown, then you may want protein too. And many are also concerned about electolyte loss...
Salt, protein, fat - Nuts, anyone?

[Deleted User]

How long before a marathon / long run would you ideally want to take protein on board in order to receive maximum benefits?

What sort of quantity of Omega 3, 6 and 9 fats should we be looking to consume in our high-fat pre-marathon breakfast?

Also, any ideas for a breakfast that includes these fats which would be both palatable and fairly easily digestable?

[Deleted User]

Just had a look at some Omega 3-6-9 supplements and the quantities they provide you with are tiny. They quoted 10calories per tablet. This isn't going to get you running very far...

So should you also be consuming mono-unsaturated and poly-unsaturated fats to get up to a reasonable amount of calories?

Or, although it seems unlikely, do you ideally want to be eating saturated fats?

Anyone know?

Broadsword Calling Danny Boy

You can buy bottles of Flax and Hemp oil which are good sources of 3 and 6.

AndrewSmith

Just another example of supplements costing more and giving you less than food. I would rather eat a nice mackeral fillet.

[Deleted User]

Andrew,

The problem is the way food is produced, farmed, processed, and transported these days now means that a lot of food sold in supermarkets has nowhere near the levels of nutrition it would have had if it were fresh and had been farmed properly.

For example, cows kept in barns and fed cattle feed produce a fraction of the quantity of CLA (an important Omega-6 oil) in their milk than cows allowed to graze naturally on grass.

And how old is supermarket fish when you buy it? It has probably been frozen and transported half way around the country (or world if it is not fished in the UK) before it gets to be processed (filleted, sliced, etc). It will then travel on to the supermarkets' distribution centre. Then it will finally travel from there to the supermarket shelf. What are the chances of it still containing all its nutrients?

You might fair better with canned fish - but it totally depends on whether it's farmed or wild and on the processing, cooking & canning. However, one thing is certain, it is not going to be as nutritious as a freshly caught, wild fish.

Whilst I agee that it is better to get what you can from fresh foods rather than supplements, unfortunately, these days a "normal" diet is likely to be deficient in some areas, especially if you are undertaking something as physically demanding as serious marathon training. And it has to be said that flax-seed oil, cod-liver oil etc are very inexpensive - a matter of a few pence a day.

BTW is it just me or is everyone else hacked of by the way supermarkets try to sell successively more inferior quality produce, then bring out new "premium quality" versions that are far more expensive? Take tomatoes, for example. You used to get nice locally grown tasty tomatoes in your local greengrocer - now, the supermarkets kindly give you the choice of tasteless anaemic looking ones at a sensible price or "vine-ripened" ones (which are still usually days, if not weeks, old and still often don't even taste great) at a massive premium. I should be on that "Grumpy Old Men" show!

AndrewSmith

Granted good quality food is better. But you still get more than the pittiful amounts supplements give. They really are a rip off.