The Right To Bear Arms In America Is Detrimental To Society.

I think that the right to bear arms has turned the average American in to a gun toting, wannabe Rambo. You only have to look at some of their 'home defence' videos on Youtube to see what I mean.

Write a comment on their Youtube video and they'll call you a British pussy or a British faggot who's scared to protect their property.

The irony is that our strict gun laws mean that the UK murder rate is much lower than America's, but I suppose that Americans just don't understand the concept of irony.

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Comments

  • did you read last week that a 4 yr old killed his 6 yr old friend by shooting him in the head with a .22 cal rifle...........

    where on earth does a 4 yr old get his hands on one and know how to fire it...

    i know it was probably not meant to kill but why on earth do they live like thisimage

  • Americans are stupid!



    Their ancient law isn't fit for modern society, every nutter can get a gun, that's why the murder rate is so high!



    Some of the shocking videos show kids being taught how to shoot a gun!



    You can even buy guns for the smaller generation. Funny thing is the Americans think its brilliant!!
  • They even do small guns in pink to appeal to little girls. Bizarre.
  • what can any of us possibly have to say on this issue that hasn't already been said

  • Not sure that 'Average American' is a particularly useful term.

    Also, detrimental to whose society: American, British, or global?
  • seren nos wrote (see)

    did you read last week that a 4 yr old killed his 6 yr old friend by shooting him in the head with a .22 cal rifle...........

    where on earth does a 4 yr old get his hands on one and know how to fire it... i know it was probably not meant to kill but why on earth do they live like thisimage

    I was teaching my 5 year old girl to shoot a .22 air rifle last week, the week before I made her a real bow from a piece of yew, i had the same experiences as a child, seems perfectly normal to me, it's what you in the country.

    The American experience is the same but on a grander level. I do think it's crazy they can own .5 cal browning machine guns, but to them it's like someone from the government saying you can't learn your mums cake recipe, handed down for generations, because Mr Kipling has just bought the rights to friut cake!

  • That's true.

    But then it's the same gun ho culture in America that leads them to charge into third world countries with tanks, advanced fighter bombers, drones, cruise missiles, kevlar vests and gatlin guns against peasents armed with pea shooters and rags on their heads.

    If the culture in america was removed then maybe they wouldn't go around killing innocent people everywhere in othre countries? And maybe then those countries without the firepower of the states wouldn't seek revenge?

  • More to the point why are people in this country not allowed to defend themselves?

    The Americans see our laws as being a bit bizarre;

    http://www.naturalnews.com/037166_self_defense_homeowners_violent_criminals.html

    As far as I am concerned if you want to help yourself to my stuff then there may be a price to pay....

  • Well then they should rob you, not me then

  • The only conclusion that I can reach is that American society as a whole feels that the occassional massacre of schoolchildren is a fair price to pay for the right to pose like Robert DeNiro in the mirror.

  • ...and they keep banging on about their 2nd Amendment rights

    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

    which is fair enough, if you're part of a 'well regulated militia'  Jefferson never mentioned the bullied loners and the nutcases who believe the UN are coming to invade who've hoarded semi-automatics.

    Of course we have something similar in the UK, but I've never been pulled up by the law for not practising with a longbow on the Sabbath, and I've never felt the threat level required it. 

  • thats exactly the point Dicky M its a law that was written when no-one had the money to hoard a load of AK's and grenades ready for Armegeddon!

    Our current law states that we can defend our property with force if needed but only if the culprit is facing us and we assume violence is going to take place.

    Americans threaten you with a shotgun to the face if you stand on their grass!!

  • The problem with letting citizens have the right to bear arms is that the criminals then feel the need to turn up to your house 'tooled up'. This in turn makes the householder even more fearful and likely to pull the trigger to defend themselves.

    What if that intruder that you shoot is a police officer who's followed a burglar in to your house, or you don't realise that the ground floor of your house is on fire, and the intruder that you shoot happens to be a fireman who's broken in to save your life?

    If everyone owns a gun, it makes the situation much more dangerous. At least here in the UK we have a proper licencing system. It allows those that have a good reason to own a gun, but has a strict screening process. Much better than letting any nutter own an AK47.

  • The problem in this country is that you are not allowed to defend yourself; you are expected to just stand there and get beaten up and robbed even against armed robbers; from the American site above (which is referenced to the Daily Telegraph),

    "In 2009, millionaire businessman Munir Hussain fought back against a  knife-wielding intruder with a metal pole and cricket bat; the burglar had tied  up his family at their Buckinghamshire home.

    For daring to defend himself  and his family, Hussain was jailed for more than two years, though his attacker  was spared prison.

    Lucky for Hussain he eventually got an understanding  judge who reduced his sentence to one year in jail, which was suspended".


    Why was this guy jailed when the burglar walked free? Since when was it legal to break into someone's house, armed with a knife and attempt to rob them? 

    The villains in this country know that the law is a soft touch and they can do what they want; they don't bother with guns because the law will protect them! 

    David Cameron goes on about people carrying knives should expect to go to prison; the reality is that they know they will get away with it time and time again.

     

  • This is a bit more like it;

     

    http://road.cc/content/news/74553-oxfordshire-cyclist-fights-bike-thieves-four-them

    Presumably even our f***ed up legal system could not find fault with someone fighting off four thugs armed with an iron bar...

    Or maybe the thugs did not realise that if they went crying to the Police, the cyclist would have been locked up and presumably sued for their injuries ie they were so badly injured and traumatised that they were unable to attack anyone for weeks.

    Apparently this was the second time a cyclist had been attacked by four men with an iron bar, but their first victim was a child....

  • What happens to if that intruder is your girlfriend who has gone into the toilet and locked her self in after you accidently hit around the head with a cricket bat - you helpfully shoot through the door to gain access and find that three bullets have accidently hit her and killed her. 

  • Friendly fire?

  • Right, some facts for you.

    Beckford v R AC 130

    "...a man about to be attacked does not have to wait for the assailant to strike the first blow or fire the first shot."

    This shows that when you are under immediate threat of attack by an intruder in your home, that you can make a pre-emptive strike to defend yourself.

    S.76(7)(a) Criminal Justice And Immigration Act 2008.

    "...a person acting for a legitimate purpose may not  be able to weigh to an exact nicety the exact measure of any necessary action."

    This means that when under immediate threat of attack you use a bit more force than necessary to fight off an attacker.

    Obviously though, you can't hit an intruder if they are not attacking, or trying to attack you, or if they are running away.

    Hope that clears up the legal side to it. image

  • In America like any country, there are good people, and people who does to be locked up. As a nurse who has worked abroad, i have seen all races, all cultures. People are people, essentially good, but have fallen along the way.

  • That being said Rickster; What did Mr Hussain do wrong? Did they think he was related to Saddam?

    Seems to me he affected a citizens arrest?  (Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, s.24A)

    btw I know what he did wrong, but I still think that a person should only be prosecuted in the most exceptional circumstances. The principle of a persons right to self defence should nearly always take precedence.

    To me the American 'Castle doctrine' makes sense; and it is based on English law (aka The 'Go ahead punk, make my day' rule).

    "And the law of England has so particular and tender a regard to the immunity of a man's house, that it stiles it his castle, and will never suffer it to be violated with immunity: agreeing herein with the sentiments of ancient Rome, as expressed in the works of Tully;quid enim sanctius, quid omni religione munitius, quam domus unusquisque civium?"

    Gives you a flavour.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

    Furthermore just after Tony Martin was sent to prison for shooting at a person climbing out of his window, another was not prosecuted for stabbing someone who was climbing out of his window....

    The law is far from clear....

  • I wouldn't say it was detrimental to American society per say. To reach an informed opinion you have to spend a fair bit of time in the country and know what makes the average American tick.

    Whilst its easy to zero in on the gang culture and the gun toting Texans, America is actually a very diverse and good natured country. Look at the amount of people they let in each year to start a new life, look at their policy on overseas aid.

    The majority of the USA is actually a friendly and non violent place, you'd be hard pushed to see any evidence of the "gun culture" in many places other than armed police which after a short time blend in and you don't notice.

    Whilst the bare bones of the facts point to an epidemic of gun murders, in order to make a claim that guns are detrimental to society you need to analyse the numbers a little further.

    There are about 8000 gun murders each year in the US, however around 95% of this number of gang related. Ask the average american if they are worried about the gang murders and most will say they are not. The other 5% can be broken down in to catagories such as domestic desputes, armed robberies ect ect. The actual number of gun murders the average american is worried about is pretty low. The majority of gun crime is located certain areas of the inner city, places the average American doesn't frequent.

    Whilst a british person might think its a terrible state of affairs, Americans aren't brits. People grow up and take their environment for granted.

    The reason opinions on guns don't seem to change is that whilst the horrendous events of school massacre's is terrible and many americans would like some sort of change in gun laws. These events are few and far between and the average citizen won't have ever been affected by such events. Thus after time people get on with their lives and care less as time passes.

    This is just my peneth worth, having traveled to the Us extensively and have some good American friends.

  • The other point though is that firing a gun is just so exciting! I've had a few clay-pigeon shooting lessons and really enjoy it. We had some friends staying so all four of us went for a lesson - our two OHs had both never shot before and were expecting to find it really boring but they both loved it and really want to go again! I suspect it is not just the rights issue - when the government wants to take something away from you that you really enjoy and have grown up with then you tend to resist.

  • Peter Everitt wrote (see)

    The other point though is that firing a gun is just so exciting! I've had a few clay-pigeon shooting lessons and really enjoy it. We had some friends staying so all four of us went for a lesson - our two OHs had both never shot before and were expecting to find it really boring but they both loved it and really want to go again! I suspect it is not just the rights issue - when the government wants to take something away from you that you really enjoy and have grown up with then you tend to resist.

    I agree that there is the excitement issue, but guns in the UK are heavily regulated. I suspect that when you had lessons you were under the supervision of a qualified instructor and on a proper shooting ground.

    The type of gun that you can use here is very restricted. Handguns, pump action shotguns and assault rifles are illegal. You can own a semi-automatic shotgun, but it can't take anymore than 3 cartridges.

    Why anyone would feel the need to own an assault rifle is beyond me. Ok fair enough, a small bore rifle can be used for pest control, hunting and target shooting, and a shotgun is useful for clay pigeon shooting, pest control and hunting, but nobody needs an AK 47 under the bed to feel safe.

  • The right to bear arms in America maybe goes back to a time when guns were the law, is it detrimental to society? probably yes but there are benefits. American society generally is massively more polite and courteous than English has become, is it down to the fact that anyone you insult may have more firepower than you? possibly, but that is maybe a good thing.

    As for the AK47, it's dick measuring, we go for high powered cars that are meaningless for the purpose of driving, so they go for more powerul guns, male jewellery

  • Devil's advocate of course

  • Miscreants in the USA don't always carry guns, as we can see from this example of a violent thief who exercised particularly poor judgement.

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