Speed - Is my approach going to work?

Dr NM

I am relatively new to running (started in January) and am training for FLM.
At present my weekly schedule involves running to work (5.5 miles) 3 mornings a week & a long run @ weekends (up to 12 miles now & adding a mile a week). I try to do 1 of the midweek runs as fast as possible (over the past few months my pace has improved from over 9 min miles to just sub 8 min miling). The other 2 times I concentrate on keeping my heart rate around 150 (RHR 60 & MHR 194)& my pace is around 9 min miles.

When I look at the marathon training schedules I see that many include a session of speedwork that involves short bursts followed by recoveries. My questions are as follows:

- Would this approach be much better for me than my 5 mile "speed" run & why?
- Am I being naive in thinking that my approach will help improve my pace & the improvement I have seen so far is just a function of being generally fitter?

Ratbag

Hello Nick,

I guess it depends uopn your aims.

My feeling is that speedwork is an optional extra when it comes to marathon training. If your aerobic base is strong then add it in. If it is not strong then spend the time building that rather than doing the speedy stuff.

I did speedwork last year and probably not enough aerobic work and suffered as a consequence.

Dr NM

My official target is to complete FLM sub 4:30 otherwise I lose a very substantial bet. But my own personal goal is to go sub 4h which means I guess need to be able to sustain 9 min miles all the way.

[Deleted User]

I'd agree with ratbag - get your aerobic base up, and do some speed work (either fastish 5 miles, or intervals, ie sprint/recover/repeat over short distances) for variety more than anything else. The important thing is the time you spend running, not the distance and therefore not the speed - you need to know you can stay on your feet for 4.5 hrs.

If I was you I wouldn't increase your distance by as much as a mile a week - go for increasing your long run time by 20 mins each three weeks. And occasionally have a sunday off, or just run say 8 instead of 15.

[Deleted User]

If you're running 5 miles at sub 8 min mile pace you'll be fine to hit 4hrs Nick. Sure building up your mileage is most critical. There's no point getting to 20 miles fast and the wheels falling off completely : however (deep breath at risk of offending anyone)-

All the experts say the foundation of a good marathon is a good 10km time. Breaking 4 hrs means being confident of being able to bang out 4 x 10 ks at about 54-55 mins each with a bit left for the finish. Doing long intervals of 1 km or even a mile will improve your speed endurance and that's the key to hitting and maintaining your goal pace over the distance.

I'm currently doing 8 x 1km at about 7.40 pace with 400 mtrs jog recovery with a 2km warm up / down. It's tough session but the results are already showing. The deal with running intervals is to train muscle memory to enable you to sustain a faster than normal pace but allow you time to recover to repeat the effort through the session.

I only do 1 interval session a week, 1 tempo run which is race pace over a limited distance, and then one long run of, at the moment, 13-16 on Sundays.

If you can mix that into your week you will run faster and further. FACT!

popsider

I'd keep going as you are Nick - as your long run gets longer I bet your fast 5 gets faster. You might want to alternate a really long run (17-22 miles) with a shorter long run (12-13 miles) as 20 milers do take some recovering from unless you are very fit. Intervals are fine but of arguable benefit when you are talking about running for 4 hours, and they do increase your risk of injury which is the one thing that could really stuff you.

[Deleted User]

i am with" the doc" on this. As part of your build up to the marathon you need to practise running at your intended pace. So warm up ( 2 miles) and run 3 or 4 mile reps at your pace. Take a short recovery between each , try to buid up to 5 or 6 miles and repeat evry fortnight.
They teach you pace management to hold back when you feel good and to push on when it hurts.
The other key sesion is your long run done at a slower than other runs pace, thwe idea being to spend time on your feet and still be able to train the day after. So take it easy dont push it

popsider

Intervals at marathon pace ?

[Deleted User]

I disagree with ratbag, I think speedwork is hard work but good work for any distance. For any given time spent training you'll get more out of speedwork than a tempo run, (what you are doing now).
And yes, your increased pace is probably the result of being generally fitter.
DCD

[Deleted User]

Disagree with Treadmill.

The key thing in your marathon pace is your lactate threshold. This can be pushed up by doing steady and tempo runs like you are.

As other posters have said, increase your aerobic base. The speed is the icing on the cake.

[Deleted User]

I wouldn't get too bogged down with the 'speedwork' ethic but I find that introducing on/off type reps into your runs gets you much fitter than just steady running (though for the marathon lots of steady running is very important).....I usually incorporate 1min hard/ 1min jog say 10 times in a run and vary the fast portion up to 3,4,5 mins but i always keep to i min recovery.....

[Deleted User]

You can already run significantly faster than you will need to run at FLM. On top of that you will get much faster still just by jogging for months.
The only question is whether you can maintain a much slower pace for 4-4.5hrs. The answer currently is "no". You need endurance, not speed.

Dr NM

Thanks to everybody for all the advice.
I really take on board what you are saying Pantman, I did 13 miles on Saturday & was still feeling it on Tuesday morning. Guess running 5xsub 8 min miles is a whole different ballgame to running 26x9 minute miles.......