Aerobic base training alongside speed work?



  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    well I started out just following what I gleaned from the HADD thread, and that had me running at about 125-130bpm for the base building part. I then went on to follow a relatively standard plan for a first marathon in the spring.

    Later I started working with a coach and he  contends that running that easy wasn't ideal but running at what he called 'steady' pace (in practice more like 140bpm) offered more by way of building pure aerobic capacity. Where he really differed from a hadd type approach was to do pass on the idea of doing long slow runs at the weekend as easyas you like - rather he does seem to keep them more at this 'steady' pace and also make some of them 'progressive.'

    The approach seems to be more in tune with P&D than HADD and I think it suited me more - second marathon was faster but also more controlled and I managed to accelerate over the last 5k rather than fading as previously.

    So very much aerobic work alongside interval work throughout. This guy is a bit of a stickler though - if you say speed work to him he wants to talk about 1500m race pace, vV02max and sprints. Certainly Not 1mile repeats at threshold pace or yasso 800s 

  • I think I agree with him. If your muscles are strong/fast enough to run a single 1500m fast, then you just need to work on sustaining it. There's only so much working on lungs and heart will do before you reach the limit of what your legs can actually handle.

    When you say "progressive" do you mean keeping a steady pace so that the HR rises during the long run? Or do you mean actually increasing pace?

    I'll be throwing in some fast sections (at least race pace) in SOME of the long runs when in the marathon goal phase e.g. 3 mile slow, 11 mile race pace, 3 mile slow, and a few half marathons at marathon race pace so that the body knows what it's like to sustain the pace. Just need to work out when I'm fit enough to start the build up. I'll get a flat out half in soon to check. Need to lose 5lb too (cake seasonimage ) but that'll only take me a couple of weeks.

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    'progressive' as in starting easy, then doing a fair chuck at steady and then going through the gears to finish at something like 5k or 10k race pace. Maybe tailing off in the last mile as cool down but thats it.

    The other thing I am wondering about for the next marathon cycle and over 2015 is how often to race a 10k or HM. I can see the need to keep benchmarking and measuring progress but Ive also read that racing too much can be counterproductive

  • I was wrong about my maxHR. Did a 10k today and it reached 193 with average 185. Got a PB which surprised me since I had done 22miles day before yesterday...

  • I'm trying to mix the Lydiard method and maf training. Lydiard advocates working backwards from the event through the tapering stage, hill work stage which all have set periods. Whatever is left is for base building. This is often seen as LSD and I think that is where it falls down is that people take it too slow.

    MAF training is about running at a purely aerobic hr, essentially 180-age, for me 149bpm. That equates to 7:00/mile for me, before I was running at 8min/mile thinking base building had to be that slow. Lydiard advocates a weekly tempo run or fartlek, I'm finding that just working on aerobic capacity is working fine for me (12 miles at 6:42/mile recently) but will introduce weekly speedwork when I start to plateau and maybe do a few weeks at 155bpm to kick myself back into life as it were!
  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    Often seen as LSD? And people take it too slow?

  • Since September I've continued with a mix of runs at 140bpm, some long race pace runs, threshold, 1k intervals and PB races (10k, half marathon and full marathon). Did the same 35k tester run at 140bpm today and shockingly went 14mins quicker again (so 25mins quicker than August). So the answer appears to be that it doesn't seem to matter if you are doing all ABT or just 2 or 3 a week some alongside other training - you still see the benefits.

  • Charles R wrote (see)

    Hope someone knowledgeable in this area can help image I've found various articles discussing how great 12-16 weeks of aerobic base training is pre-season, so very slow runs, gradually building pace a bit through the 12 weeks.

    My question is: is this supposed to be exclusive, so no fast runs or intervals at all?

    My 2nd question is: mid-season when the intervals and long fast runs are in full effect, is there any real benefit in doing these very slow runs alongside (not to be confused with the LSR which are just e.g. 30s per mile slower than marathon pace).

    1. The reason why you don't do speedwork during the 12-16weeks is because you are working on Aerobic base. Its just a matter of time. If you train 8 hours a week and for two sessions you work on speed then that's 1/4 of your training week you are not working on Aerobic base. It's not a problem but at the end of the 16 weeks, in effect you've only actually done 12weeks of the potential 16weeks work on Aerobic base. Of course you've also effectively done 4 weeks of speedwork. Just decide what's important.

    2. Your long slow run will be Aerobic.

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