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Are ultra runners fast or plodders?
I have never run an ultra, but am looking to step into a 50km run next summer.
Are ultra runners generally quick at shorter distances? Or does transition into these distances (i.e. 100 milers) require a somewhat sacrifice in speed.
I know Steve Way has said he prefers 100km events and also whips out a speedy marathon(!). I also follow a guy called The Fruitarian on Youtube who is very quick in road races and does 80min halves and sub 2:30 marathons. Are these examples the exception rather than the rule?
Would be great to hear some thoughts.
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What GKD said
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Thanks for the reply. That's fair enough, guys. But if one focuses more on ultra running, will that inevitably slow them down for shorter distances?
When my mate stepped up to Ultra distances, he did very well and got some top 3 places. His 5k times also improved.
Not if you don't let it. There's a common fallacy that to run long you have to train slow, that's utter rubbish. Every decent ultra runner know incorporates some speedwork into their routine, at least on session a week. 3 out of five sessions I do will have some speedwork in there. If all you do is long slow miles all you're creating is a long slow runner. Bring your average speed up by doing speedwork and it'll benefit you no matter th distance
I think it all depends on your training. I've definitely sacrificed speed since getting into ultras, but then most of my runs are long and slow, so what do you expect. Those who continue a more marathon based training regime, with tempos and speed work, probably hold on to their speed a bit better.
I've heard the advice of flipping the usual winter base period, in season speed work, for ultras, as all race season is pretty slow by definition, so the off season is the time for speed and strength. If that makes sense.
But that assumes that they are already at their peak fitness at 5k. In reality the extra training load could make the 20 min runner much faster and fitter and may not do the 17min runner much good- but it is all guess work as everybody is different.
So there, I have no clue!
Thanks for the helpful and thoughtful answers.
I can whip out a 18min 5k and 38min 10k, and want to focus on bringing these times down further, as well as try my hand at some ultras. Nothing more than 50km at this stage.
There are definitely ultra runners out there who have very respectable ultra times, yet still manage to perform well at the shorter road races.
Psst, ask Wib what his 5k and his fifty mile times are
Go on Wib, lay the beans!
50km is only a bit longer than a marathon (she said, naively), and lots of people find that training for a marathon improves their 5k and 10k pace.
His 5k is 16 minutes flat and for the fifty miles over the South downs it was 6:11.
Wow...that's pretty darn impressive! I'll strive and aspire towards those times
What WiB said holds true at the other end of the speed spectrum, too. My time for 50 miles of SDW is quite literally more than twice his*, but increasing your top speed increases your cruising speed wherever in the field those sit.
(*I like to think of this as getting full value for money by enjoying the course for as long as it's open.)
after i had done 2 years of ultras....i went back and trained just for a marathon......it all felt so much easier to be running on road. flat routes instead of run/walking over mountains.....I smashed all my race distances in the next 4 months. from 5k to marathon...
I don't get why people seem to think that being slow means you should just do longer events. I enjoy running. I don't really enjoy time trials or racing, but they are simply a measure of progress so I do an all out parkrun once a month and maybe run it as a tempo run in the middle of the month if it is a nice morning.
The thought of doing a 50mile event does not seem fun to me, Especially at the 'ultra' crazy prices that they charge.
I'm with literatin on the 50k not really being an ultra. Surely it needs to be double the M distance to be an ultra? Just like a half M has to be half the M distance.
that was nearly 4 years ago..
but i am still getting faster
just started back on ultra running training after a few years break
Ultra, Marathon and 10k all come under the 'long distance' banner. There may be a more marked difference if you compare with middle distance performance, where top speed becomes an importance factor.
It is just the way I see things and feel, but anything up to a half marathon is a speed run for me. I know these are technically 'long distance events' but for my own body, anything over a marathon is a proper long distance event.
Some people class 5k as a long distance event! Depends on who you ask.
I know Dean Karnazes feels that even a marathon is a short and speedy run.
Sounds like an excellent reason not to do one.
Hacking 50 miles across open countryside does seem fun to me, which is why I do it. Nothing about being fast or slow, but about choosing to do the sort of events I enjoy.
Would like to do Sparthlon and Badwater at some-point.
Perhaps after many, many years of ultra training. It's nice to have life-time goals
As other people have said, a fast ultra runner will almost invariably have a fast 10k and marathon time. You occasionally get a fast marathon runner, who for some reason can’t carry their speed up to ultra distance.
The bottom line is that you don’t need to be a fast runner, to be successful at finishing ultra’s. There are ultra runners who work close to the cut-offs, who are very effective at what they do.
Ben - I like the expression 'work close to the cutoffs'. I'm going to use that in future instead of 'haul my ass over the line at the last minute'
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You definitely planned your "close to the cut-off" run to perfection on the UTMB Ben! Seriously impressive that was.
Finally, I know who WiB is now with that 50 mile time. Quite depressing that that's my 50K time!
I just wanted to finish my long run on the weekend on the W100, but I definitely want to speed up a bit, so have to get my finger out for next year and do the speed work, I've just been slogging junk miles for the most part which as has been pointed out, slow miles = a slow runner.
To give you an idea Andy, my 10K (long time ago) best was about 48min, half marathon, 1.39 and marathon 3.58. So they're all pretty slow. Compare to WiB's 5K and 50 mile. So it doesn't correspond that ultra runners are slow.
I'm a slow runner across the board, WiB is quick across the board, so clearly you can't just say are ultra runners slow - there's more to it.
Is Badwater still going? I thought they'd taken the licence away - or is it just the route that's changed.
For Spartathlon though Andy, you have to be quick - 160 miles in 30 hours - not something I'll be qualifying for any time soon.
But good luck with your goals!
All comes down to how you train, I enjoyed my time as an ultra distance runner but had no desire to be "slow" so made sure I did speed work.
Often heard "but I thought you were an ultra distance runner" as I battered out another maximal with the middle distance track boys.
My PO10 profile has everything from the 60 metres to 100km times recorded
These days I'm slower but then I ride a bike and only do a bit of jogging.
Choices, it is what makes this sport for all
brilliant comment...
Surely they are made better physiologically too? The wear and tear that your joints get are immense.
Whwn your hip flexors are moaning after a 15 mile run it makes me think about the ultra guys and how they manage it!!
mine moan going up and down stairs.......maybe you just develop a better pain threshold.or learn to cope with it... ...
imo if your hip flexors hurt - strengthen them, and see what hurts next and strengthen that body part, no good having great quads if another body part is weak, strong chain / weakest link and all that