Intervals

popsider

Bit late starting speed work due to sore calfs. They seem OK now so I am planning to get down the track twice a week for the next month, one long run at weekend and the rest easy stuff.

I could do with some guidance on what to do on the track.

My thoughts are:

session 1 : 4*1600 @ 10k pace with 800 jogged recovery, 1 mile run to track and 3 after to give a total 10 miles.

session 2 : No idea really. 800ms, 1ks???

I've been doing a lot of fairly slow running and relatively little fast stuff or racing recently. Anyone advise how to make the best use of the track - is twice a week overdoing it? It's only for a month.

Terry B

Popsider,

No surprise that I would recommend you slow the reps down....

Session 1: 6-8*1600 @ marathon pace (200 jog rec)

Session 2: light fartlek (off road if
possible)

Your session 1 (with 1/2 mile recovery) would be anaerobic - not at all helpful for marathon preparation.

popsider

Thanks, a couple of questions though.

I was looking at McMillan running and they reckoned 10k - half marathon equated roughly to lactate threshold pace - hence choosing to do them at 10k pace or maybe a touch under.

What would the rationale be behind doing mile intervals at marathon pace over, say, doing 6-8 miles at marathon pace with no recovery? If I felt up to it and went with the intervals is 6-8 optimum or is it a case of as many as you can do and feel OK?

Terry B

LT pace is typically the best pace you can maintain for 1 hour of racing. So, 10k pace for you would be too fast. (Definitely anaerobic)

If you want to run faster, maybe do them at 1/2 marathon pace (I know you can't run a 60 minute half ) but it is much better to be slightly too slow than slightly too fast).

I suggested the 6-8 reps with recovery because it sounded like you wanted to do a 'track session'. By all means, drop the recovery, or switch to 4 x 2 miles or 3 x 5k etc. With warm up/warm down, that is a decent session. Also, doing it on a track allows you to be certain you are not going too fast.

You don't want any session to leave you too tired to train properly the next day.

Have fun

popsider

Yes to be honest the 4*2 sounds more like Mcmillans actual advice than the 1600s.

SO basically there is no point in me going to the track other than to look like a proper runner?

What do you reckon then - so far I've been doing almost exclusively 7-8.30 minute miling over sort of 6-20 miles - aiming at a 3.10 marathon. Done the occasional faster few miles on club nights and one 5k in 17.50.

So as the plan is coming together how about if I now go for a couple of 4*2s at half mara pace a week (plus warm up/down), one long run (say 20) at around 8s and the rest just easy running (5-6 miles at 8-8.30s?) for the next 4 weeks.

Terry B

That sounds pretty good to me.

Personally, I would do 1 session @ 1/2m pace and 1 @ marathon pace (maybe no recovery). Both on the track.

A good time to practise re-fuelling, etc.

[Deleted User]

Totally agree with TT here. 3 x 5k? Now where have I heard that before:-)?

To be honest, the only time I have gone anaerobic in the last 6 months is when racing. All my interval work has been as TT suggests, at MP or just slower - MP+10 to MP+40 secs.

Apparently this trains the body to burn fat as a fuel more efficiently. It won't be the kick of a good 5 x 1k session I'll be looking for up Birdcage walk, but the efficient endurance gained by these steady state runs.

[Deleted User]

Popsy,

Obviously I echo all TT has said. The point is that you want to be as specific as possible in the latter stages of Marathon training. Assuming you are talking about FLM, there is no way you should be doing anaerobic work pre-FLM now. Too late.

Renato Canova, in his IAAF Marathon book, recommends a 1k/1k track session with the km alternating LT/MP+20secs. You are best to start with the faster one at 1/2M pace as TT says and use MP+30secs as recovery.
Then build it up slowly to 7 reps (1k/1k) and concentrate more on getting the recovery pace up than the faster pace. This is a great session for raising MP endurance. Exactly the sort of thing you need to do at this stage...

popsider

Yes that doesn't sound too different to what I was proposing though does it - just a little slower than 10k pace rather than 10k. I might look at different variations on lactate threshold runs - intervals, tempo etc. I've been working largely off the Macmillan site which seems to make good sense to me. The Canova session is an interesting one - shorter intervals than the Macmillan site (from memory) recommends.

I take your point BR but you have been doing quite a lot of racing. I've missed the xc season and haven't done much else. I do feel that you need recent experience of hard running. It isn't just a psychological thing - you need to look at things like getting the muscles used to contracting hard over a period of time etc

[Deleted User]

Popsy,
Perhaps some alactic speedwork (15secs max) would get the body ready for running fast without the detriment of anaerobic work?

popsider

No I like the sound of your other suggestion from Canova - and TTs 2 milers. Basically I don't know why I said 10k pace when the Macmillan stuff actually says slower than 10k - maybe a desire to punish myself?

Don't necessarily want to go eyeballs out - last year I was doing my 1600s as fast as I could get them and almost measuring progress by them - rather than by races. If I feel OK I will be doing a local 5k though - just to see if I can get my time down really.