How much does hard training affect race times?

[Deleted User]

After a week consisting of a 10K race, a 3hour long run and about 60 more (mainly easy) miles, I raced a half marathon on Sunday.

I'd been hoping for at least a sub1:20 time (having made what I thought were sufficient allowances for the previous weeks' training), but I struggled to get under 1:23 and felt very heavy-legged.

Should this performance be making me re-think my sub2:45 FLM target? Or is this sort of performance drop-off normal after hard training? It has certainly dented my confidence somewhat...

[Deleted User]

I seem to remember that the weather was pretty appalling on Sunday.

After a hard weeks training and if your race was in bad conditions I think a 3min variation is reasonable.

[Deleted User]

Fast 5K - To be honest, I thought my sub1:20 target had already taken these factors into acount. I would have been looking for a sub1:15 time if I had tapered, had a flat course, and had ideal weather conditions...

So it is really an 8min variation that I am looking at, which seems pretty huge to me. Can I really put that down to circumstances and be reasonably confident that a sub2:45 FLM is achievable?

[Deleted User]

If you can do 1:15/16 you would be on target and you would get very close to 2:45. I did two 1/2m within three weeks on undulating course in 1:18:05 and 1:17:40. These were achieved after heavy mileage weeks (80m). However, marathon is different and it's important how well you run for the last 10k.

With a 1:23 you would be more on target for sub 3hr. Check the sub 3 and 2:45 thread and have a look what sort of times people have been running for 1/2 marathon.

[Deleted User]

URR - Thanks for your comments.

I ran a 2:56 marathon last year in Berlin and felt very comfortable (even though an injury had forced me to do very little training in the 2 months leading up to the race). This year I've been putting in more miles and been much more consistent in my training. Therefore, I was expecting to see some big improvements, rather than this apparent stagnation...

I didn't ingest any carbohydrate whilst running my 3hour long run a couple of days before the half marathon, nor did I eat anything before or during the half marathon itself, so I'm wondering whether I could have been somewhat carbohydrate depleted during the race? Could this have accounted for my lack of pace?

Obviously I am just searching for excuses, but I did put in a 36:13 10K last weekend which was much more in line with what I was expecting. Would I be foolish to just write off the half marathon as a bad day?

As I said earlier, I have been targetting a sub2:45 at the FLM, but, given that there are only 4.5 weeks to go, I'm wondering how I can best ascertain whether this is still a realistic goal. I'm running a 10K race 2weeks before the FLM - do you think it is valid to use this to gauge my potential marathon time?

[Deleted User]

Gravy - In general, I think you need to accept you can not always run a PB in a heavy mileage week. Had to learn that myself, though luckily I could post a few PBs already. Sometimes, you just have a bad day, this can happen. In your case, FLM is important, everything else is secondary. In addition, you need to make a few mistakes in order to improve next time In summary, you have to accept the 1/2m result and move on, focus on training again and let it not occupy your mind for too long. As I said, I sometimes have the same problem, often so extreme that I even not race

Regarding carbos, I do the same, have only light breakfast, but I don't run for 3hrs, usually 2-2.5 hours. I hardly drink and if the breakfast was right I feel okay. My view is to not stress the stomach too much.

Regarding 1/2 marathon race, for the last two 1/2 marathons I didn't take on any water or gel and felt fine.

The 36:13 is still good, depends on the course (hilly, flat etc). However, my feeling is for 2:45 you need to run very low 34's, which is quite a big gap. For example, before NYC (2:54) I did 35:42 in Richmond Park (Nike 10k).

With all your training, the 10k should not take much out of your system. I am sure you can handle this. I am more worried about the psychological effect, say you had a good race and you feel over confident, or you had bad race and end up starting in FLM too fast and suffer in the end.

I am aiming for 2:45 (Boston) myself, this will be very very hard and I am not sure if I can achieve this. I have posting good results so far, PBs on all distances, though still I think that those results are not good enough.

The 10k time is only an indicator, same applies for 1/2 marathon time. Marathon is about how well you run over the last 10k.

[Deleted User]

URR - Thanks for all your advice. I suppose sometimes there is only really one way to find out if you can attain your goals - and that is to just go for them... The worst that can happen is blowing up before the finish!

The 3hr run was the first time I had tried "withholding" carbohydrates, so perhaps my body needs some time to re-adjust? Have you always run without carbohydrates for most of your runs, or is it a strategy that you have deliberately moved to? I am very interested to find out if this really works...

At the Berlin Marathon I ran negative splits, with a fast final 10K - (in fact it almost equalled my 10K PB), so there is still a part of my that feels that if I get my tapering / carbo-loading / refuelling all spot-on, then I might still be in with a shout.

When is the Boston marathon, btw? I think you have to be in with a great chance given the half marathon times you have been posting.

[Deleted User]

Gravy - I do a lot of runs around 80-90 minutes and I don't eat volumes before the run, only a small snack. Just enough so that you don't have to starve. I don't feel the need to eat something or drink something while running. I am not a big fan of carrying a water bottle around. However, I make sure I drink afterwards and eat afterwards. As far as I can see there is no strategy behind it, maybe it helps in terms depletion. As I posted on another test, instead of eating mountains of pasta I start using CHO powder and SIS REGO for recovery. So far this works quite well. I want to keep my weight down as low as possible.

For the last two weeks I did 15.5m almost every day (25km) and try to run those runs as steady as possible. Those are my key sessions plus 1hr time trail on treadmill. I am not bothering about intervals on the track.

Boston is 19/4/, one day after FLM.

Still a few weeks left, if it's 2:45 or not, I try to give the best.