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Able-bodied wheelchair racers
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I was reading a back issue of RW (March '02) and came across an article about Daniel Sadler. He is an able-bodied wheelchair racer who has been barred from London (and the GNR) because he does not have a disability.
I think it's shocking. He puts his case across very well and has the support of the sport's organising body and other wheelchair racers.
Views?
I think it's shocking. He puts his case across very well and has the support of the sport's organising body and other wheelchair racers.
Views?
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Comments
Disabled sports people also race in different catergories depending on the nature of their disability-where would he fit?
furthermore, why should an able-bodied person race in a wheelchair when a disabled person can not race in an able bodied person's running race?
Then there's the issue with prize money....
Although the paralympics does have different categories, as far as I know the FLM doesn't.
As to why he should race in the wheelchair when disabled people can't run the able bodied race, i think that's just the point - he's capable of doing it, whereas that doesn't work the other way around.
In some ways the fact he wants to do it is recognition of just what a serious event wheelchair racing is.
Unless of course he just sees it as a way to make money, but he'd have to be pretty damned good to beat people like Dave Weir and Tushar Patel.
If it is a serious event, then anyone should be able to enter it. Otherwise it's a bit David Brent, isn't it? "ahh, it's nice for them to have something." All depends whether it is a wheelchair event, or a disabled event.
You've hit on two great points. Firstly, the difference between a wheelchair event and a disabled event is the key. Secondly, the phrase "David Brent" will increasingly take on common usage - perhaps in the same way that "Catch 24" has.
I think there are more points to be considered in that phrase too. The disabled are not allowed to "give it a go" like the rest of us. The have to be able to finish in 3 hrs!!!!
And any disabled athelete who is not in a wheel chair is not considered except with the able bodied racers. The problem with this is that many of them would not, because of their disability make a good for age place, yet if their time was compared to the winning times of their disability classification they would have made and equally good performance as those able bodied runners who get an automatic place.
Where is the fairness in any of this? I thought sport was open to all.
As for is wheelchair racing a disabled sport or a sport for racing a wheelchair. I think at this moment in time it's classed as a sport for disabled athletes to be able to race using their equivelent to our leg usage-their wheelchairs.
I don't think it's got anything to do with "ahh, it's nice for them to have something." I still think it's got to do with able-bodied athletes having an advantage over disabled athletes when it comes to training.
Wheelchair racing is a serious sport and the athletes train extremely hard, but I do not personally feel that able bodied athletes are entitled to race in wheelchairs just because they can.
Not sure I agree on her other point though - I think I understand the reasoning, but I'm yet to be convinced that an advantage would be gained overall. Guess I'm in the camp "awaiting further evidence". What advantage do fully able bodied athletes have during training by being able to use their legs? Presumably it's possible to build up aerobic fitness the work rate that wheelchair athletes appear to have?
Catch 22 I know, but Catch 24?? Was this a mistake or have I missed something?
I'm pretty confused actually about whether it's Hilly who's being non-PC or those in the other camp!
Interesting discussion though. What does FLM do for other categories of disabled athlete?
I should also say that in previous years London Marathon only accepted when chair atheletes who have specially designed racing chairs and if you had previously done a sub 3 hr marathon.
I would also say that I find the coverage of disabled sport very poor. You rarely see coverage of the wheelchair race, BBC are you paying attention here!!!!!
As for events like the paralympics, you see little or no coverage of them either...
Guess it's the same as a lot of sports - not as much public interest, hence not as much TV coverage. This is true for plenty of able bodied sports too - e.g. women's football, volleyball, badminton etc.
I come at this maybe from an emotional angle as I have a daughter who is in a wheelchair!
I more than many would love to see equality for people with disabilities in sport and in all areas of life.
An example of where I think an able bodied athlete would have an advantage could be where an athlete such as Tanni Grey who has Spina Bifida is racing against someone who has a 'perfectly normal' spine. That person would most definitely have better flexibility in the spine and as such would maybe have a better range of movement in the chair. They would also have more control over muscle development.
However, mine is an opinion and we are all entitled to them-so now I rest my case!!
I agree with you abotu spina bifida, so in that case I follow your argument, but not all the wheelchair folks fall into that category as far as I know. That being the case, the various wheelchair athletes aren't on an equal footing (no pun intended). I don't honestly know whether (say) a person who'd had a leg amputated would be naturally closer to the performance of an able bodied athlete or someone with Spina Bifida.
I certainly don't profess to be an expert in this - I was really stating that I didn't feel the case had been proven.
On the TV coverage - before the GNR this yearthey went through the leading wheelchair athletes before the race.
As an ex volleyball player, I find it reallt boring compared to the six a side game (sexual titilation aside), as the complexity of attacks is vastly reduced, but it doesn't draw in viewers. Sex sells I guess.
Barkles if you lived in a seaside town like myself, you could have your fill of beach volley ball through the summer months. Personally don't see the attraction myself!!
Didn't mean it, actually.... just trying to loghten the tension.
From what I remember from the article mentioned, Daniel Sadler's father was heavily involved with wheelchair racing, so he grew up around racing chairs. He didn't just think one day "I can't run, but I sure could beat the hell out of those wheelchair athletes". He has the huge disadvantage of extra body weight, as well as his legs turning numb/cramping when he races.
I ran last year's race in 2:51, but give me a race chair and I wouldn't be able to do the race in twice that. It is patronising and overly simplistic to suggest that just because you have good aerobic fitness that you would be able to compete in a chair.
For that reason, I would applaud anyone who races in a chair - without stopping to ask them whether they can use their legs!
I remember the year my father did the London marathon, I watch the start of the wheelchair race. The only bit I was able to see, with tears rolling down my face, such was my pride at his effort. For him the sports that he did, wheelchair basketball, and athletics where a way of kicking against his disablity. It was a way of getting rid of all his fustrations. He has always been a very active man and to lose the use of his legs at the begining was a cause of great depression.
I am sure he would agree with everything you have said Paddy.
I know it is very unlikely that I will ever beat his 2:45:21 at the age of 57 in the FLM. But I have also wondered who would win if he and I had a race. I know at the moment that he would beat me every time in the chair as I have neither the strength in my arms nor the technique.
As we say in French "Chapeau" to anyone who what to push themselves 26.2 miles.
At the end of the day, if wheelchair athletes with disabilities have no objection to 'able bodied' athletes also racing wheelchairs then that's what counts. After all it's a sport they obviously want to see develop as any other.
Maybe, for people like myself who have a close family member in a wheelchair we or I at times cannot see past the 'real' use of that chair! But patronising, simplistic-never.
My objective was not to point the finger at anyone, but merely to say that some people on this string are in danger of 'talking over the top' of those who are actually in the wheelchair without considering their opinions - just as often happens in everyday life to physically handicapped people when some assume that they are also mentally disabled.
My point about physical conditioning is that, as Bobby says, "Chapeau!" to anyone who decides to PUSH themselves around a marathon. I couldn't do that, and I am reasonably fit.
Iain's post above illustrates this point. To make the assumption that an 'able-bodied' person could get fit and then jump in a chair and race is just like when a you or I talk to a totally unfit person who thinks that they could do a couple of weeks running if they chose to and they could be competing with our times. It belittles the achievement and the hard work that you REALLY have to put in.
When I said I felt that a person with no physical impairment would have an advantage with training, they disagreed. In fact they felt the opposite, that they would have an advantage because they use a wheelchair for everyday life so racing one would require less adaptation.
SO I REALLY DO REST MY CASE! But it would be interesting to see a scientific study of this.
In any case, good luck to ALL who find themselves at a start line with 26.2 miles ahead of them. However you do it, whoever you are, it is a true achievement.
I'd love to see some sort of scientific study too.
I aslo wonder why when there are categories of racers in the paralympics, why wheelchair marathons don't do anything comparable.
I wish more people would listen to the pros and cons and listen to points of view. I think too many people state their current point of view and then don't bother listening.
I'm one of these people who has an opinion but it's never 'set in stone' and I do try to agree to disagree and sometimes be persuaded differently as others opinions are just as valid.
Anyway, happy running, wheelchair racing...........WHATEVER!!
It actually really p1sses me off when people say "That's my point of view and I'm sticking to it", and won't even bother to listen to the arguments being put. IMO they're just closing their minds rather than showing any strength of character.
I'll be running - don't think my arms would cope with the minor uphill bits at the FLM if I was in a wheelchair, particularly coming out of the underpass at 24 miles!