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The Polyphasic Sleep Experiment

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    ok so on top of that you are also going for a 2.12 marathon!....can I ask from what base (ie. existing race times) that you made that decision from?
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    If you lived to be 200 and slept 5 minutes a night you'd never learn anything

    Completely true - in fact if you slept 5mins a night, you'd be dead in a very short time - the body NEEDS REM sleep to survive. The beauty of polyphasic sleep is that it conditions your mind to enter REM sleep almost instantaneously. Therefore its possible to get MORE REM sleep than someone who sleeps 8hrs a night.

    But I'm not sleeping 5mins a night, I'm sleeping 2-3hrs efficiently in a 24hrs cycle. So the mind recuperates, and when one is awake, one is mentally alert enough to learn.

    With regard to learning for learnings sake - I'm not just learning for learning's sake (although I do enjoy reading and learning), I'm studying toward a degree. And the other study that I do benefits me in my job, and my running.

    some things don't need to be questioned, or that there are some things that are off limits

    and who determines what's off limits, or that doesn't need to be questioned?
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    if this works RR.. you'll make a mean 24hr runner.. 48hr.. 72hr.. 6day.... all yours for the taking ;-)
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    Regarding your last point, think that it comes under the heading "common sense".

    So, you're doing a p/t degree and you read up on running/ how to manage people?

    There's enough hours in teh day to do that. But still, I get teh feeling I am wasting my time! :-)
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    Gumps - there are studies that show that its REM sleep thats most productive in terms of repair and recovery, and I'll theoretically be getting more REM sleep than before as I'm sleeping more efficiently (with my body going straight into REM sleep when I put my head down). The other sleep cycles have not been shown to have any benefit on the human body other than as 'comfort sleep'.


    ed, I may hold off on the blog, I'm enjoying the discussion here!
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    'I love my sleep so this would not be for me.'

    ITA!

    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that it makes your body more efficient with REM - it's just that studies have been done on sleep-deprived individuals who, when they were then allowed to sleep, went immediately into REM. Doesn't mean that the body is more efficient - rather, maybe more desperate to get there and repair.

    (Of course, I haven't studied psychology for about 2-3yrs now so maybe new research has been done!)


    On a side note, when I started running (about 18months ago now), I found myself slipping into REM just before I was dropping off to sleep (the rapid eye movement alone - not the actual dreams).
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    Can't see the problem of experimenting but unless you have been doing this for a while and found it works you can't really expect people to take it seriously.
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    interesting (i'm a psych undergrad).
    antidepressants are known to suppress REM sleep (it's actually used as an indicator of ad activity), & lots of people take them without long-term damage.
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    absolutely popsider, but then it wouldn't be the polyphasic sleep experiment if I'd already found it to work. Also I kind of wanted to see peoples reactions to something controversial and against the grain, and hear some views from the array of professionals we are blessed with on this forum :-)
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    Please confirm you aren't driving on this little sleep, NFRR. You ignored my question.
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    Also let us know if you manage to find (retain) a girlfriend whilst following this routine. Doesn't sound like it would be too much fun for a partner...

    (please substitute "boy" for "girl" if appropriate, of course)
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    Sorry, HJ, I'm not driving during the first week at least, not until I feel ready, alert and fully able to do so. I'm not at the minute.

    V - girlfriend, obviously (c'mon venom, you've met me!). Ah. I see what you're saying... No, I definitely DON'T swing the other way!
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    Also what about my question about the base times and background that you made your intention of going for a 2.12 marathon from....?

    which will make it easier for me to draw an opinion on whether you are just naturally a person that sets unrealistic and unachievable goals for whatever reason (possibly to get attention?) or it maybe that you genuinely do have that singular sense of purpose to pull these things off.
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    Well experiment with your body by all means, but not at the expense of safety to other road users, NFRR.

    There was that chap who only got 1/2 an hour of sleep after chatting on the internet all night and ended up driving down an embankment at 6 am onto the railway in his landrover with a trailer on the back a few years ago, and caused a train crash. He got sent to prison for that.
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    Well, I've said my piece now, so I will look on in horror methinks.

    What other experiements could you do?

    Experiment with a new way of eating - push food up your bum.

    New way of walking - on your hands - saves wearing those feet out.
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    A tragic accident caused by, er, internet chatting.
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    watching with interest - a friend works in sleep research
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    A tragic accident, caused by, er, someone having a disregard for how much sleep he needed in order to drive safely.
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    I still don't think people are getting the idea behind the methodology - this is NOT grabbing the odd hour's sleep here and there - this is a STRUCTURED sleep program that has worked very successfully for those who have carried it off! If you just have broken disturbed sleep, due to young children, work commitments, etc, then you ARE going to feel knackered! This is not that! This setting aside consistent times at consistent gaps every day which allows the body to adjust!

    I'm more than happy to reply to the other questions when I get a chance (probably at 4am tomorrow!), in the meantime, I've got study to do!
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    What's the fuss? Old people have similar sorts of sleep patterns but who'd want to be one of them? Will you also get to pooh yourself and leave it for others to clean up?


    :)

    I've been on about 4 hours sleep a night this week and I'm fine me. Wibble!
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    it seems worse not better than being a parents of young children

    and i think the mental effects will be worse than the physical ones

    although
    my experience of sleep dep is that physical accidents also increase dramatically
    risks imho are
    - dropping stuff in the kitchen - burning yourself, cutting yourself with sharp knives
    - poor driving - v scarey
    - falling down the stairs

    and i think that was with more sleep than you're proposing

    mine was not structured same as yours though i accept that


    is this the thing that ellen mcarthur used on her round the world trip?


    i just hope you've not got a job where you're in charge of heagy machinery
    or knives

    or have to drive anywhere
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    oh

    and you risk typos on the forum

    mine increase exponentially with sleep dep

    ;-)

    heagy=heavy
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    Yes, do give us an update!
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    JasonX - am I just a person who sets unrealistic goals? Perhaps. When I set myself a goal, I create a vision of what I want to acheive, and I do everything to acheive that.

    With regard to the 2:12, I don't have a racing background. Just a belief that with an absolute whackload of work, the right training methods and time, I might just pull it off. On the other hand I might not even get close, but I'll get closer to that time than if I set myself a goal of say 3hrs and put in the work (less work) that would be needed to acheive that.

    With regard to setting myself the goal of opening a running shop - I don't have a background in retail, management, running a business, etc. But here I am helping to manage one of the bigger shops of the largest running specialist chain in Europe, and my own shop is getting ever nearer in the sights.

    With regard to polyphasic sleep, I've read articles from people who have successfully carried it off, and I'm interested in seeing if it really does work. If it doesn't work for me, I'll back down and revert to monophasic sleep, and I'll report back the results of the experiment!

    So do I set unrealistic goals? Perhaps many of my goals and my visions will seem unrealistic to many people. But I'd rather have a large number of extremely high goals and only be able to follow a few of them through to full fruition, or somewhere close, than to have very realistic, easily acheivable goals, and be mr. average, mr. mediochre.

    So form your opinion. I don't worry too much about others opinion of my personality. I'm not doing this to attention seek, just to create conversation and let people see something tried that not a lot of people know about. But if you would prefer me to stick to less controversial topics, then I'll stop posting and let this thread die. The experiment will continue until I decide to bring it to an end.


    LOK - sounds similar to what Ellen MacArthur used for her world trip, don't know for a fact, but i remember reading about it at the time.


    btw - I've posted a blog:
    http://www.jfleck.com/polyphasic/

    and just for those who haven't bothered to read the original article that inspired me to give this a go:
    http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/10/polyphasic-sleep/
    The above link is Steve at the start of his experiment, and the below link is after 90days:
    http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/01/polyphasic-sleep-update-day-90/


    Nap time!
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    Fascinating thread.

    Never heard of it before, wouldn't try it myself but tis the most thought provoking concept on here in ages.

    So long as it's safe, why not go for it, if it's what you want? Keep posting anyhow!
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    NFR the counter arguement to that could be - take on to much and succeed at nothing.

    people who run 2.12's dont do much else but train and run.

    people who set up successfull businesses from the ground up dont do much else but concentrate their efforts on the business.

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    Thats a very fair point jX, I don't disagree with that at all. I guess as I get closer to reaching one goal, then I'll divert my energies away from one goal to concentrate on the task at present. EG, I know that when I get the shop set up, and in fact in the months preceding the setup, I'm going to be focussing and working on the shop 80hours+ a week. The running will suffer, the study and reading will suffer. But thats a matter of prioritising my commitments and where I want to put my time and energy at any one given time. If I do ever get to sub 2:30 MP, then I guess I'll scale down the study and do more training to try and get as fast as I can. But thankyou for making a very valid point.
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