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11.4m club session with 8 x 800m at 2'55 coming down to 2'51 (=roughly 5'45mm) off 90s recoveries, then 2 miles at a nominal MP of 6'18mm and a few more moderate miles after. That was bloody marvellous, as they say.
That was fuelled off a bagel at 1pm and then banana + granola bar at 4.30pm. Started running at 6.30pm if that helps? Long weekend runs I often do off a cup of black coffee.
Good to see the training picking up from folks. You can tell we're into mid-Jan. PP reckon you could hit storming form with that core base.
One Tunnocks Marshmallow and a cup of tea is my favourite pre-run breakfast.
TT.. the car sounds like a bit of a lemon, hope you can make the race.
PP.. good to see you on the mend.
Postie.. move to the seaside
4.2m easy this morning then a progressive club run tonight. 7.2m with the last few at 7:29, 7:16, 6:55, 6:51.
X-Post.. nice session HR.
Well you crazies, I fuel for the long run, a sachet of microwave porridge, with a sliced banana, a cup of tea, and one marmite (sometimes two) crumpet. How come you take on so little?! I've heard that you can perform better if your body is not digesting, but after an hour your reserves would be so depleted? I just cannot do it. I take loads of gels on the belt as well
10 mile today, too icy/slippery round these parts for any meaningful pace but the last 4 at mara pace
after long run Sunday, my bruised ribs worse than when I did them - had 4 paracetemols and 4 ibuprofen in the morning yesterday and still hurt too much too run. Took 5 of each today and was determined to run whatever and it wisna too bad, Fartleks padded out to 11 miles.
Ouch PM
Morning everyone.
On fuelling - Always have to eat before my long run or race, if I run with out anything I tend to get really fatigued quickly and generally just don't enjoy the run.
Good start to the weeks training so far. 5 easy on Monday followed by 10 yesterday with first 7 of those alternating 7 minute mile and 6.15 minute mile every mile. Another 12.5 this morning done.
Pi Man - that's a lot of drugs, are you sure that's healthy?! Well done for getting the run done yesterday.
Nice sessions by HR, Jimbob, Wardi and others.
TT - that's a shame, although does move me up one position in the results! Hope you can make it though - I'm on car park duty from 7:30am so if you coming I'll probably see you then. I'll look out for the carin a smoke cloud and with the doors falling off clown-style!
6x1k last night - ran them at 80% effort as I've been feeling a few niggles after too many hard sessions last week. Will probably do an easy turbo tonight rather than spinning and then just easy stuff until Sunday.
Pi Man - Do you rattle when you run?
Great sessions from HR, AW and Wardi.
TR - what pace/effort should the 15mins be?
TT - Shame about the car, I hate missing races.
Padams - Hope the niggles clear up.
6+10(4.5 hard) yesterday
10 this morning, feeling fitter and less fat.
HR - nice 800s.
SL - somewhere between HMP and MP I'd say. I did it this morning, thought 3x15mins would be easy enough (i do it on the turbo often), tougher than I thought, the last 5mins was grim of the last 2 reps. I'm guessing at around 6:15 to 6:20 pace for me today, I was running up and down a known 2M, so was doing a bit of menthol maths at times. 12M total for me.
Jimbob - I think the theory is that running unfilled warns your body to be cautious about glycogen use, so burn more fat than it would otherwise and the more it gets used to that the better prepared your for a marathon or ultra for which you cannot store bough glycogen even with carboloading. Probably.
Rib update - just 2 each of para/ibu this morning plus diclofenac gel - was alright for 5 mile recovery run. Will repeat does and run later. Hopefully won't have to have such a heavy dose as yesterday again, but I can't see myself doing less than 17 on Sunday so will have to wait and see results next week!
TR: is that working out how you can make a mint?
Wardi - Thanks for the Parkrun photo link and congrats on the joint age-catergory victories on Saturday
CW - Nicely done slotting in the first marathon distance training run. I've read that Fitzgerald book (kindle edition). It's pretty solid advice, I already did quite a bit of what he recommends (or slight variation there of), but I found a few bits and bobs of useful info which I integrated into my pre-marathon routine.
Jimbob - I use to be like you needing breakfast pre-run and gels en route, but I gradually increased the distance I can run un-fuelled to the point where 20+M is no problem now. Improving your fat burning is a key element to better marathon running
Good stuff at the week from SL, JH1, Dan (nice bit of endurance work!), Toro, LJ , good mileage (at decent pace) from LD and great 800s plus MP miles HR
TR - well toughed out this morning, I did that session solo on Bournemouth prom last year, was the most soul destroying run I've ever done!
Easy 8M offroad on Monday, followed by an easy 5.5M+stretching session yesterday morning. Decided to put in an easy 4M at lunch too, as I find my legs get a bit creaky sat at a desk all day. I have been going for a decent 4M walk at lunchtimes, but it takes a bit too long, so I'm experimenting with running it very easy instead. Then 9.3M in the evening including in a 8min(10k effort)/4x2min(5k effort)/8min(10k again) wet & windy prom session. Speed needs a lot of work, but reasonable happy to average 5:35/M for both 8min intervals (half upwind/half downwind). 7M easy this morning, started as a bit of a shuffle but freed up as things went along.
On the whole diet subject, we've been eating the low-carb high fat Noakes approach for the last few months (with a few digressions for Christmas/New Year/Trip to Yorkshire!) as Mrs Al P is on a weight loss drive. It's worked very well for her, as it's actually been maintainable compared with the calorie counting diets and she enjoys it. Once you get over the initial symptoms associated going no-carb (takes 1-3weeks) and the stigma that saturated fat is bad for you, it's great (bacon, eggs, cheese, butter, double cream coffees
).
Before Christmas, and before I got injury issues, I was doing very well on it, but did have a few days of training when I really felt exhausted. So now I've started to add some carbs back in for the VLM campaign to keep the glycogen levels up while doing speed training (you can't burn fat fast enough at the higher intensity). This is in the form of a bit more fruit and the odd bowl of porridge, but breakfast, lunch and dinner are all still generally very low/no carb.
Wardi - a lemon indeed. We've had to be recovered twice by the AA in the last while with a completely dead car and both AA mechanics have diagnosed the problem the same, but garage disagrees because their computer doesn't say so when they hook it up. Basically their mechanics cannot do any mechanical diagnosis......
lol Padams. The doors are about the only thing that works on it! I wouldn't have been anywhere near you anyway so I'm afraid it won't improve your placing either way!
What does 4.5 hard equate to SL?
Was that 3 x 15 this morning TR? Nice!
TT - Haven't a clue, I did it to feel, probably 5.25-5.30, it wasn't flat out and was on a towpath which always slows me down.
PiMan -- don't overdose on paracetamol, you'll get liver failure. Well toughed out though!
Al -- I make that a triple (am/lunch/pm), golly. The Fitzgerald book is fairly sensible so far but he's hit the odd bum note (e.g. talking about 'the wall' in short races down to 400m -- that's a completely different kind of blow-up! -- and claiming low-cal drinks prove as fattening as sugary ones). But I'm still not far into the book. His "two rules" are eat enough carbs for training -- chiming with your revised regime -- and getting lean via sensible eating of healthy stuff, with a kind of pyramid scheme to encourage that.
Had a bit of a pang from a new place on the top of my right foot yesterday morning, during a good hill session, and it was a bit creaky on the way home. This morning it was fine for a minimal commute run, but I was a bit alarmed to see a vague bruise had appeared on top of the foot over the 3rd/4th metatarsals. Most odd.
Wow things hotting up on thread!. Very happy and muchly belated bithday CW. Seems liked you recovered from all the excitations quickly and relatively unscathed.
Incredible long runs over the weekend and some brilliant training from all. Interesting diet tips from all and very interested by fluids fuelling debate. Amazed people can go for long runs without pre-fuelling adn without anything en route. Went for my first ever long run without breakfast at weekend and felt fab but did take gels every 30 mins. Also run with a camel back but find I now take about a 1/4 less in than I did a year ago. Will be running with gels for VLM.
PL3 would agree not to be toonconcerned about being shy of 20 milers at the moment despite lots of amazing efforts here will be my first this weekend but last year was about 3 weeks later before I reached that distance.
PhilPub incredible amount of cross training, not sure where you find the time for all that adn to still fit in 50m is pretty remarkable your general cardio fitness must be immense.
Dan A amazing 45 miler effort especially mid training and to resume training next day seems fairly astonishing.
Good luck all for Stubbington this weekend wishing could be there looking for sub 34 10k next weekend at fairly mickey mouse race in swanage.
PM reiterate the others careful with meds, especially ibuprofen whilst running liekly to cause dyspepsia or at worst an ulcer or could cause kidney probs! Hope it heals soon though and good dedication!
As for me 59 mile last week which is highest Ive ever done with 45 mins spin on rest day. Highlight was 18 miler at weekend which included starting parkrun at mile 14 and still pulling out a comfortable 17.40 5k, total time for 18m dead on 2 hours feeling very good. Last night 9 miler with 5 mile tempo at 5.45 mile pace. easy 5m this morning and bike tomorrow as some good recovery time (whilst wife on nights)and hopefully finish the week around 60 mile again.
PS CW sure the foot thing is nothing to be alarmed about. A little metatarsalgia should settle fairly quickly. Hope it doesn't both you too much but elevate and ice tonight!
DrDave - I think it's always best to err on the side of caution re: fuelling. I was a jelly baby junkie for my first marathon, one a mile for any runs over 15 miles, but glad I managed to wean myself off long run fuel, as it's a lot easier not carrying anything!
BTW, I'm looking forward to seeing a host of cheeky PBs this year, but I bet no one can out-Bubka my effort on the rower today: 2 x 15mins and a session PB of one metre!
(Total 8,276m, pace 1:48.7) I really need to have another go at my 10k PB again when I'm feeling brave/stupid.
I did manage a 3k pb by 0.3s last summer. If I'd known I was that close to the ultimate 0.1s pb for hand-timing I wouldn't have attempted a dip...
Ha! Good work Jools. That's the exact same margin by which my club mate beat my 5,000m PB last year, the git. Very sporting of me, I thought, to still be cheering him in the final home straight, given how tight it was.
Speaking of Bubka PBs, my planned target for pacing duties this year is 2:59:00. Is that any good to you or would you have something more ambitious in mind? (I've requested blue start, although not officially heard back yet.)
Also, I've started thinking about pacing tactics. I was thinking 1:29/1:30 split bang-on, using the downhill bit through Woolwich to start getting a modest cushion on target pace. Then metronomic splits from halfway. Thoughts??
Good 16 miler under my belt earlier on; up round the lesser known canals of London like the Limehouse cut, Olympic Park, Victoria Park & then got a train back from Haggerston.
No "quality" or speed, but pleased with my endurance at the moment, seem to have more in the tank than I thought I would & seem to be enjoying my running more now than the last year / 18 months or so where I have struggled a lot with my running ( plateaued ? )
You a better runner than me Phil, but if it was me, I'd go through in around 1:27, 1:29 / 1:30 IMO will be cutting it too fine for a lot of people that you are pacing.
I'd rather have a little bit of money in the bank at halfway rather than having to run a negative split.
Personally, I recommend splitting in 1.29.12
But that was on a flat course without the fast 3rd mile which VLM has.
OTOH PP, there's no 'perfect' split for 3 hours and you'll never keep everyone happy if they're planning on running with you the whole way. Your more even strategy seems best - anyone wanting time in the bank can go ahead, knowing that if you catch them after halfway they're falling behind schedule and need to stay with you or fail. Just tell people what the plan is when you set out.
AL_P - your session sounds more enjoyable than mine. I had heavy legs (from y'days bike work) and found it tough today, but then it's supposed to be I guess. I've been pretty tired and beaten up most of the day since, thats with only 45mins of "work" time too, it goes over the hour as time goes on. No wonder folks told me these sessions are tough.
TT - crap news on your car.
DrDave - if you are targetting sub 34 then you have leg speed to run well under 3hrs over a marathon.
PP - agreed on the 1:29 first half, if you take them thorugh in 1:27 thats 2:54 pace, and I'll have to be looking over my shoulder.
Phil. I ran Zurich a couple of years ago coming back from injury and followed the sub 3 pacers the whole way. They did a fine Swiss job in delivering me to the line in 2 59 49. If I recall correctly they did perfect even splits the whole way despite a fair few little hills and truly sh!t weather in the first hour or so. To be honest this felt a lot easier to understand and stick with that anything more "clever". Keep it simple.
Anyone have experience of using strava on an iPhone? I did a head to head comparison on a short run today and the phone seemed to think i had gone about 10% further than my Garmin.
I missed your session earlier HR. You're sounding in good nick!
Nice session also Al_P. It won't be long coming back now. No pains?
Good pace then SL.
Well done on the 18m/parkrun combo DrDave.
PP - 1:29/1:30 is spot on in my book. You can hoover up all the (too) fast starters in the 2nd half
TR - you'll adapt to the sessions quickly I bet. The first couple are always the worst.
After nothing Sunday, and only 6 Monday (because of the car), the week has picked up with a 6/14 yesterday and 21 today (all easy). The biggest pain with the car is that I'm starting to feel more fluid and the weight has started to come off, so I may have actually managed a half-decent race on Sunday (definitely won't have it back now and it looks like it'll all be going down the legal route).
Strava. For those with an interest in such things this is very surprising.
https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/21940674TT - can you take the train (to race ?), failing that a one day hire on a small car must only be about £40.
1. I don't go along with this "teaching your body to burn less carbs" stuff. I think (from what I remember I have read in the past) as you get better trained with long miles etc your fat burning will naturally improve. However, trying to run without carbs will not teach your body anything.
2. Whether you need to eat before a long run is likely to be a mental need rather than physical I'd have thought. If you've eaten a normal meal the night before you will likely wake up with enough carbs in your muscles and carbs in your liver to keep you going 16-22 miles if you don't eat. What will eating do for you if you don't run further? It's not going to affect the early part of the run unless you've got some sort of insulin issue I wouldn't have thought?