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Selbs - Blimey that must have been a shock, I've fallen off one once that was pretty unpleasant.
StJ - Thats pretty nasty. And as you say if it bites people it should be on a lead, he'll get it putdown if he doesn't watch it
ES - thanks for the link
On the GPS, it may make quite a difference for me, I live in the Alps in the winter so all my training has significant gradient. Makes pacing runs interesting! But even that as you say won't make a huge difference to distance.
They have offered my money back for the missed turn on the race, which is decent of them.
Bike in gym yesterday, be a 7+ mile run at lunchtime round Victoria park. Probably have to run on the tarmac which is a pain as its a bit too muddy on the paths
KD - that sounds like a pretty frustrating experience. At least you got a good run in I suppose, and an indicator that you can go quick next time out.
ES - solid 10K, sure you'll go faster again.
Padams - kicking a duck sounds like a euphemism, but I'm not sure what for. Apologies for those 3s, but the way things are going I'm sure you can nab them back soon.
TR - I'd love to do Chichester and Eastleigh, but unfortunately this year they both clash with the big local half marathons, Wokingham and Reading. I'll have to find a April or May one to target instead. Thinking of going for that Highgate track 10000 in May.
CD - what surprises me is that here in the UK, and right across Europe, second tier Kenyans mop up the prize money at second tier events - £1000 here, £500 there, and so on. So why isn't someone signing up some of these Japanese kids and doing the same. Perhaps I should go on Dragons Den to plead for the airfare to Tokyo?
Never been bitten by a dog, but did get hit by a herd of deer two years ago in Richmond Park during the Christmas Day parkrun. Probably cost me the win!
Dan - I assume that's because £1,000 here and £500 there isn't of much interest to most university-educated Japanese people.
The depth is incredible though, makes my head spin. And it seems bizarre that out of all of that depth, so few global medal contenders emerge.
Ow do everyone
Just popping in for me fortnightly post. Some quality racing over the weekend I see - some cracking times/results!!
Glad folk who travelled managed to get PBs or have solid runs at the Abbey Dash (joolska, Dachs, Toro?). Some superb runs there.
Th R - as I said elsewhere, it shows how far you've progressed when you feel a bit disappointed with a 35'08. Another quick one is Ribble Valley 10k (between Xmas and New Year), or Dewsbury as you know. You're in top nick fella - just move on to the next race.
Great runs from those at Gosport too - top PB from Dr. D, a pretty solid showing from TR and a beard-restricted season's best from Tick-Tock. Nice work fellas!
Cracking Half from Charlie too, off a textbook njord-esque prep!
Sorry to hear about KD's Half - sounds like you had a great run and would have bagged a good time (and prize?) but just one of those things I guess. You seem to have taken the positives out of it so that's the main thing.
Top parkrunning and animal cruelty from padams. Glad the foot is feeling better. Once it's 100% perhaps you could progress to kicking larger animals? Perhaps the odd badger or fox.
Lovely to see saintjason back - how's it going fella? Sorry about the dog bite! You need to go out with padams - he'd have roundhoused it to the temple before you got within a mile of its jaws. Hope you're well anyway.
Well done to ES at the 10k too - sounds a bit hectic!
Apologies to anyone I've missed.....
wardi - I missed wardi!! Sorry chap! Hope you had a cracking holiday climbing mountains and drinking Keo. Nice start to the campaign too (you doing Barcelona? I've forgotten!)
Anyway my stuff. I was in Glasgow at the weekend (arrived Thu eve, back Sun). Staying with the SPO's friend, but I did meet up with Running Bhoy on Friday and stopped at his new pad Fri night. Sadly he's got a bit of an injury to his knee at the mo so isn't running (maybe 6 weeks out by looks?), but he came along to Victoria Park for the parkrun on Sat morn. Pretty quick course this - pretty flat with one small incline per lap (it's a 3 lap course). I had a good run, finishing 4th in 17'42 which is the quickest I've done a 5k for about 2 years I think. So I was happy with that. The 3rd lap sounded like ES's 10k too - lots of weaving, jumping onto grass verges to lap people etc but I don't think it really cost me any time.
I then rounded that off with another 13 miles back to the SPO's friend's place, and then did just shy of 20 on Sunday! I ended up doing about 73 miles last week including a speed session and full-on parkrun, so I'll be taking it a bit easier this week! I felt completely fine TBH, but do feel tired today and my legs are a bit achey. So I'll prob take the little un swimming later and have that as my 'training'!
Still struggling to fit any races in due to work, but have bagged a number for a quickish 10k near me in 3 weeks time. It starts at 9:30, so I can do that and still get to work for 11 (at a push) so I'll do that. Not ran a 10k since March 2013, so will be interesting to see how it goes!
All, thanks for the encouragement! So my 10K time is not close to my best, but hey, VLM is my target, not faster 10K's!
As I said earlier, Bedford half in 3 weeks is my next race. Going into my 2013 marathon campaign, I ran 1:28:03 at Bedford. That got me a 3:02 marathon after 18-weeks of P&D. So it will be interesting to see what I can run at Bedford this time around and where it gets me in VLM.
Any tips for "killer" sessions with 3 weeks to go until an HM?
Skip the 10k races. Instead run 5k/Park Run for speed-endurance and run a HM or a 20 miler as test runs to indicate marathon goal time.
Dan - tell you what, we'll set up our own management company. We'll call it, oh I don't know, Run Quick or something. We'll be raking it in.
You could do a special range of xempo shirts for the Japanese market, different colours for 1:02, 1:03, 1:04 and so on.
LS - thanks, I now picture myself running around parks like a madman trying to kick any random fauna that I spot! Sounds like you're going well, and good to hear (indirectly) from RB, although shame about the injury.
ES - for HMs I like 3x2M at HM pace. I struggle to do much more than 2M at HMP on my own, so this gets a bit of volume at race pace without being too horrendous.
TR -- ah sorry, wrong end of the stick when you said "I had pretty achy legs after the 10m race two weeks ago but my legs were fine to run an easy 5m on today." -- it didn't sound right that you meant it took 2 weeks to recover!
SJ -- I've actually said to some owners to shout at the dog, not explain to me, otherwise it won't learn. Not that I know anything about dogs. I'd definitely have zero sympathy for one that had just bitten me, and the owner giving it some immediate discipline while it could remember what it had just done sounds like a good idea to dissuade it from doing it again in future. I'd also tell the police.
ES -- I like to do a session of 6x(1M at target half pace or close, 1M at brisk-steady pace e.g. 7m/M).
LS21 -- epic weekend's training! A bit of rest definitely in order.
Keith, massive pisser about the DQ, shows you are in good form though and they did the right thing offering you your money back.
Cheers Selbs, hope so on the 2:45! Sounds like you dodged a bullet with the treadmill!
Ninja Padams
Good to get a 10k under your belt ES and a decent position to build from.
I’ll be interested in the answers you get for half marathon sessions. One that I plan on using is a 10k tempo the week before. I think what you can run over 10k at a hard but not flat out effort on your own in training will be a reasonable indication of HM pace. Check out the Run Competitor website, loads of good session ideas on there.
That Japanese half is ridiculous DanA
Probably toughened up TR, good timing that with your intended uplift in running frequency.
SJ - never been bitten when running, tough luck. Not sure I’d have been as restrained as you.
Cheers LS21, yea aware of Ribble Valley, I ran it last year, great event, not as fast a course as I expected though, it’s one of those that attracts a class field so people get dragged to a good time rather than the course lending to a fast time.
Rich suggested the Percy Pud, I assume that’s the race you are running? It’s tempting but I think the smart plan for me is to have a bit of an easy week or two then build up for Brass Monkey and Dewsbury 10k. There is Trafford and Salford 10k if I want another bite at a 10k later on, but probably not as I’ll be in full on Marathon mode after Dewsbury.
Excellent training and parkrunning btw.
My legs are still quite sore from the 10k on Sunday, think that’s more a reflection of the condition of them going into the race. Rest yesterday, rest today and probably a rest tomorrow.
Hello all,
Firstly I thought I'd never be posting on here but I think the time has come to have a crack at sub 3 in April
2011 Dublin 3:43
2012 Paris 3:29
2012 Amsterdam 3:20
2013 London 3:23
2013 Dingle (training run) 3:20
2013 Chicago 3:08
2014 New York 3:04:35
PBs
5k 19:24
10k 40:41
HM 1:26:20 (Maidenhead Sept)
I have a place in London (ballot) in April but I think I will try Manchester as it is meant to be a quicker course, good idea?
Need to knock off another 4:36secs, NY isn't the flattest of courses and it was a bit windy so that might take a bit off my time but not 4:36!
For the pass two marathons I have followed P&D training plan 18 weeks 55-70 miles per week, I know my 5k & 10k are slow (haven't raced a 5k in a while).
I was 4kgs lighter (72kgs) doing NY marathon than Chicago so that obviously helped a lot.
Anyone else with a similar target or someone who has achieved sub 3 with a similar build up ?
Any thoughts or advise?
Cheers
FG
I am a Marathon novice, so no expert but I would say more of the same for you should get you there. You have made improvements using the P&D plan already and you were pretty close to sub 3 shape at NYC and quite possibly already there.
So, another block of decent training and a good day at Manchester or London might get you over the line.
Welcome, Finish Gantry. P&D up to 70mpw has taken me from 3.19 to 2.52 over the last 7 years so my view is it definitely ain't broke and I'm sticking to it. Hoping it'll help me chip yet more off next April!
FG, 3:04 in NY this year means you were probably in sub 3 shape in better conditions, certainly not far off. Manchester vs London? Unlikely to make much difference either way. Whichever you pick will get the worse weather, and on that basis I'd suggest you go for Manchester.
FG - From what I know of NY this year, more of the same should easily translate that to a sub-3 in good conditions. Stick with P&D and hopefully the only real change will be the training paces for each of the sessions as you continue to improve.
Some cracking racing going on over the weekend. I'm particularly envious of Dachs' time but it's no less than he's deserved from some impressive training of late. (A potential 10,000m smack-down in May gives me some extra incentive to get back to top form!) And Jools - congrats on the PB. Very impressive bouncing back after Frankfurt.
So I've managed 3 spinning classes and a couple of runs in the last couple of weeks. Still feel a bit meh but aiming to crack on at least with easy effort running till I feel more like myself. Saw the GP on Friday, who basically confirmed that I'm breathing normally, haven't got any gremlins living in my throat, and blood pressure normal. Had some blood taken out of me this morning just to see if anything's identifiable beyond an annoying virus that needs to take its course, should get results Friday. Would really like to be doing XC on Wimbledon Common this Saturday but we'll see...
FG - based on your NY time you're already in sub 3 shape on a fast course/conditions (or were on the day of NY at least). More of the same should be easily good enough!
London is pretty fast, so I doubt Manchester could be more than a minute or so faster, if that. Possibly less crowded though (can be a problem at London at 3 hour pace), but at London there's more support, so depends if that's important to you.
Apols that I’ve been a bit quiet. I am finding that living with a baby and working is pretty stretching on my time, let alone running too… then writing/chatting about running comes some way further down the list… hence the lack of posts. I’ve been vaguely following though. To summarise, everyone’s getting fit and moving away from their fat pictures, I’m just working on mine… I’ll post it sometime in around a year, I think!
TR – I like that “vest isn’t lucky”. Completely true. As much as we often joke about lucky kit, I think too many people believe that their lucky kit is responsible for times and performances (beyond its actual qualities!). Well done on yet another sub-80. Is there anyone more consistent?
Jools – congrats on yet another PB! You’ve definitely had more than your fair share… although, its only what you deserve from the volume of consistent training you’ve put in.
TickTock – great Half. Congrats. As you say, that needs converting now!!
PiMan – for years and years I wore track spikes for XC… was never an issue. Unless you come against roads/hard ground in which case the track spikes don’t have the “give” that XC ones do. (The actual spikes in XC spikes have a tniy amount of movement in them which means they don’t snap off!). Downhill is also better in XC spikes (due to not just having a plain plastic rear sole).
DrDave – great performance that. Well done. You certainly are heading in the correct direction. That’s a huge PB given the times you’ve already run!
ThR – that’s no bad race at 35:0X. Don’t be too tough. Just get back to it, and make sure you are perfecting the balance between enough/over training.
CW – great race preparation. .. and a very decent performance to follow. Sometimes a low-key approach is certainly the way.
Dachs – great PB that. The strength in depth of the field was really incredible. 138th in that time is really something!
Bugger me, that’s just a massive list of people breaking PBs!! Great weekend!!
So my last week or so has consisted of a decent amount of training (55m last week – which is a post baby best). I’ve also improved my sleep a lot this past few weeks (is anyone really interested in reading this sh1te?) which has massively helped recovery.
Then a good long’un at the weekend and a good session last night (a good 15 seconds average per km-ish rep faster than two weeks ago). Starting to feel just a little more positive.
Finish Gantry - I think the most important thing in marathon training is consistent training over a number of months/years. Given that you have done two P&D cycles, I would expect that a third will continue to reap benefits. On top of that, I reckon the conditions in NYC will have accounted for the majority of the time you need to knock off. Just keep doing what you're doing... it's clearly working!
I've also done both Manchester and London and I would say that there is very little between the courses. In London, you will definitely have a lot of people to run with/against (possibly too many?). In Manchester, I found that when I ran 2:58 people were a little scattered and not really in groups but this may have been my personal experience - I ran in the first year and finished 43rd (ish, I think) and I know the depth of the field has significantly improved since then.
The Manchester course is very flat, and I believe statistically flatter than London. However, I didnt notice a single incline in London and would say the downside in Manchester is the open sections between 15 (?) and 20 (?) miles where it can be very windy. I actually dont think Manchester is a faster course, although it advertises that it is.
Manchester would definitely win for travel to the start and spectator ease (if they matter to you). The start is on the tram line and spectators can travel up and down the line to watch at several places - with some creative planning, I saw my mum 8 times when she ran.
Manchester vs London .... if you have a ballot place go for London ..... although you have the GFA time for next year if not. Not sure the Manchester course is particularly inspiring .... yes its flat but the crowds will flatten the course out for you at London (metaphorically speaking)...
Valencia was interesting.....
Was doing a park run flat out a week before a good idea - probably not (caused hamstring strain)
Was doing 1 long run up to 19 miles a good idea - probably not
Was moving house and lifting heavy boxes during the final taper week a good idea - definitely not
These factors combined with some sort of bizarre premarathon man flu causing temperature regulation issues meant the sub 3 quest was kinda doomed before it started.
Despite the factors mentioned above the pace was laid down and went through half way in exactly 1:29 .... feeling ok ... although left hamstring has started to tighten as early as 11k!
Managed to keep pace until 35k and then things went to pot.... hammies (both) started to cramp - was quite hot and lost alot of salts.... the 4 gels I took on board as well as water didn't seem to be enough. Temperature were up around 21C ... about 10C too hot for ideal conditions IMO.
200m before the finish I had the worst cramp of my life with both hamstrings completely cramping up - fell to the floor - marshalls rushed over fearing the worst
.... they quickly realised I was fine apart from being able to move legs and did the footballers stretch on both legs for around 90 seconds.... hobbled in for a 3:09 ...
Managed to get a ballot place at London through my club at the weekend too so that has been a nice silver lining.... am going to revise my target to 2:54 and do it properly this time round
That way if I blow up again at least I can still crawl in under 3 or a worst a GFA
Banksy - well done for giving it a go. We all knew that was the likely outcome given the combination of 16m long runs and low volume/mileage. I think its doable off shorter long runs but you need to it be more p and d like with more regular long runs and more volume/miles.
6m more.
Dachs - awesome result, thoroughly deserved and fantastic to see you pull it off in the target race. Sounds like you had a nice weekend. Looking forward to seeing the HM times fly down come the spring (and then I'll start to put some more pressure on you to get back to marathoning...!)
Jools - wonderful to pull that out of the bag so soon after Frankfurt. Look forward to seeing how the London campaign pans out (sub 2:50? Go on...!)
PP - eek, hope you discover what the problem is. A decent rest will do you no harm though after a fantastic 2014. Have you had any further thoughts on racing v pacing for London?
ThR - really solid result. Look forward to seeing how things go on from here.
TickTock - nice HM, really well done.
DrD - as elsewhere, fantastic race, really well done. Clearly a lot more to come. What are your plans from now?
FG - I'd agree with others, having run NYC this year myself (albeit with a niggle that turned into severe tendonitis and meant I was struggling to do 8m/m by the end). That result is easily worth 5 mins on the London course (assuming no freak weather). Looking forward to seeing you do what it says on the time come April.
Padams - good that the foot niggle doesn't seem too serious. How are you intending to approach the next few months before London?
TR - good consistency. I disagree though - as PP will attest, the orange vest has to be lucky. Team Sub 3 colours...
bainspj - nice to see you back at it. Looking good for next year
Banksy - as TR says, good on you for going for it and sorry to hear about the cramping issues. I'm sure with a proper build up (and more long runs!) the London goal will be achievable.
Sorry for anyone I've missed.
Things here looking up a bit. Tendonitis has calmed down massively - still there a bit and my ankle now feels really weak/"creaky" from underuse but I'm no longer forced to limp all over the place. And the immobilisation boot is presumably helping the stress fracture to heal (it's not a severe one so I can't really keep track - the pain/discomfort was all from the tendonitis). Still, at least another couple of weeks before I think about anything weight bearing.
In a desire to shift some of the 5-6lbs of New York cheesecake weight that I carried back home around my waist and not lose fitness too much, I've been back in the pool for the last week, maybe somewhat excessively but it's left me feeling pretty good. I'm pretty dreadful at swimming and find it incredibly dull - though not half as dull as pool running - but have managed to do 60 lengths steady effort most days (gratifying to see the time this takes me come down - now just over 32 mins). That has been combined with some big pool running sessions, all with generally around 25-30 mins hard effort in the form of whatever intervals I feel like at the time (yesterday was 12 x 2', today 10 x 3', both of these following straight on from the steady effort swims so hopefully good boosts). The only way to make pool running work is to really hit the intervals hard as easy running does nothing for you - and given it's non-weight bearing, you can basically do hard workouts most days. That said, it's bloody hard work getting the HR up in the water and it's astonishing how you can persuade yourself it's been an age since you last looked at the clock to find that only 25 seconds or so have elapsed... Still, I'm hoping that the volume of threshold intensity will stand me in good stead when I get back to running. Hopefully also good for conditioning with all the water resistance. Most pleasing was forcing myself to grit my teeth on Sunday and do a 2hr long pool run including 62 mins effort (2 ladders of 1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1 and then 6 x 2') - totally excessive but it felt like a very good mental hurdle to pass and gave me some confidence back after the NYC/injury setbacks (wasn't doubting my fitness, but injuries do make one glum so it's nice to feel the endorphins...)
oh, and bainspj, I very much doubt anyone cares about the sh*te I write but that doesn't stop me...!
Lev.. some well earned endorphins in the water! Bet that NY cheesecake was good though.
PP.. hope that bug shifts for you soonest.
KD.. sorry to hear about the DQ.
ES.. after your injury/operation woes that's a very respectable comeback, nice one.
Banksy.. good effort and worth trying lower long runs but I don't know many who have succeeded with it. Any video clips of your final few yards??
LS21.. a nifty 5k there, good miles too. BTW you do remember correctly; the smoking jacket is indeed Barcelona bound come March!
To that end 4.2m + 8.3m today. Nice run tonight in t-shirt & shorts, all the other runners I saw seemed to be dressed for the arctic!
Well so much for my 'rest' day. 24.76 miles with 34,986 feet of ascent. Not running, but the distance I covered at the swimming pool when I took my little girl to play on the big slides. I had to have a couple of gels just to keep me going.
Welcome to Finish Gantry too
As others have said, just keep doing what you're doing. If you'd done a flat, calm race on NY Mara day you'd have possibly already bagged the sub-3 anyway. Given your choices I'd do VLM too. Absolutely no doubt re that at all. London isn't a slow course. Unless your name is Dan A and then you're fecked.
Speaking of which - when's your Mara Dan? This weekend? If so good luck mate. The running gods haven't been too kind to you really (other than allowing you to meet me obviously) - so you're due a bit of luck. Non essere merda fella
Oh and well toughed out at Valencia Banksy - it was always a big ask given the build up but you gave yourself a shot at it. The man-flu and conditions didn't help matters either so well played fella. Got a feeling you run for Sheff Tri too? If so I run for the orange vested lot from Barnsley. Also work at Sweatshop at Meadowhall if you ever fancy any shoes which are £50 more expensive than anywhere else
Am indeed STC - LS ... Have bought the odd pair of pumps from you. Know Mark quite well who now lives in France - used to work for you guys.
Nice one! I've only been working there since April this year, but have known Mark for a while. He's a top, top fella. He's actually in Spain now - his partner's contract came to an end in Lyon, she had a few other offers etc but ended up going to a Language School in Spain. Mark being Mark was just 'yeah, whatever' and went with it. I was speaking to him last night actually! He's doing a Mara in just under 3 weeks and is in decent nick I think - maybe the sub-2'30 might be broken finally. Fingers crossed for him.