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We only really talked about the next few weeks and the actual application of the race. His view was very much that they can't all be winners and perhaps I misplaced some early miles but every mile was sub 7, the slowest being 6.55 at mile 26, so I didn't implode as such. I reported the issue with my left foot atc18m and stitch atc22m as well as the congestion through middle which he said all contributed to outcome.
I've pretty much mapped out the next 6 weeks myself. I've got Manchester half end of May with England masters which I claimed at the Bristol half last May. I've also now got Bristol 10k weekend before it. Matt therefore wants me to go hard at parkrun next weekend. I've also got hereford 5k early June then wrlsh castles relay 11th June.
After that it's a clear run. I've have some thoughts on where training with matt v lewis didn't quite bring to the table what I think I needed. Mainly the mixed pace long. I'm used toc20-22 milers with decent blocks at mp. Matt wouldn't go near that. I think had Newport yielded a result I'd have gone with it but now I have recourse to argue that some of the old methods need to return.
DT19.. looks like you have a decent next few weeks organised. Out of interest do you train with a club? The fast group in my club train together fairly frequently and socialise as well, there's a lot of camaraderie between them. Too many improvements to mention.
BTW I had a session with my chiro today!
TT.. I hope you can get into some sort of groove soon, your issues do sound frustrating.
10m today, 18 degrees this afternoon so vest & shorts weather. It's like someone has flicked a switch to turn summer on!
I struggle to fancy a flat out parkrun and suggested a threshold parkrun so we agreed to see how I recover.
I've chicago in October. The two things I spotted that seemed detrimental from the switch of coach was the mlr and mixed pace long. Matt put in 12m at start of cycle and it never progressed. Lewis would progess to 14m. Then the mixed pace longs I used to do were tough. Matt peaks them at 18m and it was moderate not hard. Lewis would have things like 13m easy then 10m at low end mara pace. I think it the late stages Sunday I missed that prep.
Wardi, I haven't trained with my club since the week before my 2nd child was born in July 2013. I'm able to run at lunchtime and it suits my family commitments versus the 6.30 club run. 3 more years though and I'll be pretty free in that regard.
I do like a maintenence chiro session. Plenty think it's nonsense but I know how I feel for weeks afterwards.
Just been looking at strava, at Newport half which followed largely the same route. That seemed to measure 13.15-13.20 so within normal tolerance on same course. Something definitely went awry .
Interesting on the difference between the two coaching styles. I really want to follow Canova stuff from start to finish just to see what it would produce, but I've accepted that I neither enjoy nor benefit from MP work so it would most likely just be a frustrating endeavour - when I ran my pb I had 1 x 6m @ MP 9 days out and that was it.
TR - do you see yourself doing London again next year? A lot of people seem put off by the sheer volume of runners this year. As you said it's more about a day out than a time, and if you're staying overnight it's an expensive day out at that!
Wardi - I'm trying to take an "it'll all come good in the end, and if it doesn't come good then it's not the end" approach to it. There are plenty out there who can't run at all so no point in feeling sorry for myself and if I keep pegging away it'll work out fine.
How're your hamstring issues now after a few chiro sessions? It was very warm here yesterday too, but blowy. Beautiful though.
An easy 5m yesterday afternoon was uncomfortable - stiff and sore after a lot of adjustments/manipulations. Still a bit stiff this morning, but my breathing, though not perfect, was significantly better, so it would seem that is addressing at least part of the problem, and it hasn't been that long since my last bout of covid so hopefully as my RHR comes back down the rest of my breathing will improve too.
Planning (assuming my day doesn't go sideways somewhere) to go back to track tonight. I see the group session is 2 x 800, 2 x 1600, 2 x 800 so I might pop in that as 4m of volume is a good starting point. I'll keep it controlled rather than get dragged in with those who invariably race their training.
DT19 - I like the look of your next 6 weeks and especially Chicago. Manchester half at the end of May looks a good fast course, bet you will do well there, with Bristol 10K as a timely sharperner. Its more than ego, we all invest so much in marathons, sometimes you just want the breaks to go for you, not against.
Wardi - 18C, that must have been a welcome shock! Feel for the poor souls who had to run the Boston race at the weekend in the weather they had. Great to do 10m in such fine conditions. Trail running is indeed the dark-side and expensive too, people were paying £300+ to take part in the 100m Arc of Attrition race, which non-surprisingly has a c50% DNF Rate. No thank you. Your chap did the 50 last year, is he entering again?
TT - Just keep plugging away is exactly the right attitude. Hope you have a good group session tonight.
Legs still ache so no running until the weekend and then plan a few HM's for the summer and probably marathons for Oct & Nov, to join the ones for Dec & Jan.
My former coach used to regularly set those in and out Canova type sessions. I really enjoyed them. I also find that running lots at mara pace brings me on well.
Ouchouch, it seems quite a few runners have written to the organisers for an explanation. Seems situation is under investigation. Both 3rd and 4th placed ladies have sent me dms on Facebook. The 4th place coming in just the wrong side of 3 hours. She has carried out a map overlay on the advertised course and that run which shows the turnaround point about 100m out. She sent me her letter which makes compelling arguments. She particularly notes that the latter timing mats that are close together provide complete random paces showing you slow considerably and the reason is that you have run 200m then 300m then 400m further each time so you've taken longer to get to the mat. She also notes that the timing mat set at 19.7m was about 50 metres from the 20m marker.
I've sent my own complaint in to bolster things.
Manchester should be decent though an 8.30 start is annoying.
I plucked up the courage to run today, just 3.5m. Quads sore still.
DT - Chicago sounds good. Sounds like you know what you want changed too, we'll see how you go in that HM first though. If you'd have had a shorter course Sunday you might not be pulling apart your training so much?........shame Newport are going to have this distance investigation now, but they need to sort stuff like that for next time.
OO - sounds like more sub3s on the cards later in the year
TT - i will enter London again, it was great to see folks and run with some of them for a while. I got to see crab and ode too......what didnt help was our start going off late, I was 2 mins later over the line than similar paced local ladies that we're on champs. 2 mins is a lot of runners.........however, 90 min drive at 6am, 2 x trains, walk up maze mountain isnt ideal......so yes more of a day out. If Brighton (3 wks earlier) is ok ish weather then I'll go for it there.
Was hoping to be lurgy free by now, but more nose running and body aches today, maybe I'm on lap 2. Tedious.
TR.. I'm heading to Worcester area this weekend and the weather looks better up north! Nice day here again and the wind had dropped which was a bonus. Re. London, I do wonder if they are cocking up the 3 starts somehow? There were a lot of complaints about congestion at sub 3 level this year.
OO. I will ask my clubmate if he fancies the Arc again. He is getting a lot faster over shorter distances so this may distract him from Ultras.
TT.. the hamstring is all but healed now thanks, I think it was the 4 vicious massages that cured it! The current chiro treatment is to cure a left tilt when I'm running. It has improved 50% so good progress made.
8m + 4m double today. Very pleasant on the racecourse this morning. A mere 17 degrees by this afternoon so the vest was out for the 2nd run. I'm away Thurs- Sat so not sure how many running opportunities I'll get.
I got out for 8.3 hilly miles this evening at 8:26 pace so legs clearly recovering well.
I’ve entered the London ballot but I’ll almost certainly enter Newport again as logistics are so easy & it’s only £39 if the entry goes in this month.
Jooligan/DT - it certainly sounds like Newport messed up something in the last few miles. Hopefully something comes out of it, even if it's just confirmation of a mess-up.
DT - there is a lot of overlap between Canova and other coaches (which doesn't diminish what he has done at all as he has taken various pieces from various sources and made a rather effective jigsaw from them). The in and out type sessions are similar to the surge long runs Bill Squires used to do, and along the same thinking as a Mona Fartlek or Deek Quarters from the Aussies (though obviously much bigger volume).
I think my biggest struggle running MP in training simply comes down to the fact that there's less than 10s/m between my HM and Mara paces so I'm running far too close to HM effort. Or I'm probably a bit lazy.
Jooligan - good news on the recovery!
TR - I can totally get that side of things. I'm split on next year (though a moot point until I post a qualifying time somewhere), but mainly because of the cost. I'd love to make the start-line and have a meet-up with folks afterwards, but I'm too scatty to travel on the morning, and we like to take in a show afterwards too, so the costs add up.
Fingers crossed that lurgy shifts soon. There seems to be lots going around at the moment!
Wardi - apologies for getting the treatments confused. I'd forgotten about the left tilt. Sounds like it's helping considerably so far though! Nice double and enjoy the break.
Track last night was muggy! But a lot of fun. 2 x 800, 2 x 1600, 2 x 800, all off 2mins walk/jog recoveries.
I sat in with the second group on the first rep and then started the second rep taking my turn at the front, and just ended up leading out from there on. I made a conscious effort to run to feel, only really checking pace halfway through the 1600s, but my inner metronome was working beautifully.
Split were 2:53, 2:53, 5:44 (2:52/2:52 split), 5:43 (2:52/2:51 split), 2:51, 2:45. Thoroughly enjoyable, though it tickled me a little that only the last lap of the last rep would have been inside Mara pb pace!
Today will be, like Tuesday, 2 x 5m easy.
Wardi, how come you're in Worcester? That's my area.
Jools, similar with strava clocking me 2.45.22. Ridiculous really but I'd have been a lot happier with that. I note Newport has gone for mid April next year.
TT, I guess most training runs and approaches have been created now, it's just how different people cherry pick different elements to form their trademark approach.
I'm keeping running short and very easy until after weekend I suspect. 4m today at 8.50mm.
DT - still worth a review of the training with Matt. It's important that you start Chicago feeling happy with your training.
Weights this morning and a short commute run home this evening. Hope the lurgy pisses off soon, fitness will be dropping, but need to get healthy first. Have a 10k next weekend!
Sorry been awol tail end of last and most of this week. Busy time with the mini break in Spain and a deadline at work upon my return.
Gutted to have missed all the Newport build-up and subsequent discussion.
OO - A fine return to normality (for you) at Newport. An excellent result and report especially with the late maths to deal with. A very well managed race using all your experience to great effect. Excellent job on managing that tight Achilles.
DT19 - Also a great run and despite you feeling a little disappointed I'm sure by now you have reflected on your race and will find many positives in which to move forwards. Congrats.
Jooligan - Great effort at Newport and fair play for going for it despite all the rubbish you've contended with this year. True grit to soldier on in those last few miles when many would quit. As I read recent posts its a shame the race has been marred with distance complaints. Marathons are hard enough and a lot of folks invest heavily for them to mess things up. One of my sub3's doesn't count from Manchester 2015 for being short! First world problems etc but still annoying.
TT - Noted a longest run in 10 weeks which is encouraging to read. Also glad to see the mojo returning with the track session.
SteveMac - Nice last week and those back-to-back long runs will serve you well.
TR - Sorry to read you are still not feeling great. A lot of it about. Several colleagues off hence all hands on deck this week. Hope you come out of the other side soon. I am tempted to do London again despite all the mucking about. It is a spectacle after all and as you say, the golden ticket entry is pretty good when all said and done. Will see. Manchester marathon currently closed for entries so I can't enter that yet even if I wanted to. What was the name of that podcast you mentioned outside the Red Lion?
Wardi - Great to read of your progress too with the parkrun improvement. You're going in the right direction. Great to see. Enjoy the mini break.
I haven't run since London. Plenty of walking mind you. A coach once told me to take as long as you need post marathon. "You're body and mind will let you know when its time to start up again." I've been busy with work anyway and my trip to Spain was relaxing but of course travel and staying some place different can also be tiring. I must admit the sun being out has been tempting this week. I think I'll settle for a couple of easy jogs at the weekend.
I haven't decided not to run another marathon this year but I have yet to sign up for one. I have signed up for a 10k, a couple of half's and a 55k ultra up in the Lakes as my first official foray into that territory. I will be running the three peaks in Yorkshire in June too. Intentionally keeping running quite easy going for a while. I'm sure the itch will return soon enough
Tried to get the wheels turning today. I run a long hill everyday, but decided to some actual hill reps today (10 x ~40sec) and the 10 x 30sec/30sec on the flat, for 9m in total.
DT19.. staying in Droitwich visiting old friends, usually manage a reunion once a year either here up our way.
SJ.. I trust the well deserved hols went well. The 55k ultra sounds challenging! I'm considering the VOY half in Sept for my mid distance comeback.
TT.. good track session, sounds like you enjoyed it! Hope you manage to find a decent race for a Champs start opportunity.
I think our 2.25 guy is giving London a rest in 2025 and heading for Seville.
Found time for a 4.5m run in the drizzle down here, nice to run on some strange roads and paths.
Nice bit of hil work. Karl lives around the corner from me. I turned up at parkrun a month ago for a social run but he doesn't seem to have run since. It's been nearly 18 months for him now, which even for a femoral head stress, is a long time.
SJ, thanks and yes my self-reflection last few days has been more positive.
The extended rest will do you no harm in long run. No doubt you'll get a taste for it again soon.
Wardi, Droitwich is a nice spot. I'm in Bromsgrove so next town along. Lots of countryside to run in there.
6m over lunch. Easy pace and HR are almost back to pre mara levels.
DT - he has a labral tear too?.....I like his old school approach, when his athlete (drakey) says "depending upon how I feel at 20m.....", Karl gets the hump and says "fck feelings.....the aim is to try to die in the later stages of a race"...........no to Bedford, my 3.01 will get me back in London, I'll wait for Dorney or Abo, 10k speed nd then HM speed is n the summer menu now.
TR - Good to see you back at it, hill reps the obvious return run! Might see you at Dorney Lake (if you do it) as currently fits in with other race/ life plans.
SJ - Thanks. Plenty of race incentives for you. Is the 55K the Lap? If so my SIL is doing that. Running 55k in the Lakes sounds fab. Sound approach resuming running when it feels right.
TT - Good track session in the week. Your on the way back.
Wardi - Lovely sounding double in 17C, the sun has arrived! Enjoy exploring new runs this weekend.
Jooligan - Good one on Newport, its a good marathon, well organised with a good positive vibe. I am tempted too, depends on if my daughter gets into London and Cardiff City are playing at home.
Just been cycling for the past few days and thonking about marathon plans for Oct/ Nov. Dorney Lake, an ultra in Majorca and Florence are current favs. Looking forwards to resuming running tomorrow with an August HM in target.
sj - good to hear from you. I get what you mean with holidays. I find being out of my routine a different type of tiring. Some interesting challenges there ahead of you with the 3 peaks and the ultra in the Lakes. And totally right of you to pootle along until you're ready for more.
Wardi - I've entered Abo which is a plenty quick enough course to get the time if I'm fit enough. Your 2:25 guy will have plenty of company in Seville.
DT - sounds like you've almost recovered.
OO - certainly feels like I'm on the way back finally; cheers. I've been (remarkably for me) restrained, particularly with any quality stuff (Wednesday was my first time at track in almost 3 months, and only my second workout in that time). I'll be honest, I've surprised myself with keeping a lid on both quality and quantity.
How're your niggly bits now post marathon?
Yesterday was 4m very easy am / 9.3m pm as 3 easy, 2 @ 5m-10km effort (5:52), 4.3m brisk (6:56), so I'll count that as 1.5 workouts for the week.
Then 12.2m this morning to make 67m for the week (biggest since back to back 80s in January before things started to go sideways). The first 6m included some big climbs which finished off my legs which made the last 6m 'fun'.
Aim for this week was to establish my routine, get back to track, possibly a road workout of some kind, and get up to MLR distance today, so I ticked all boxes.
Plan for the foreseeable is to keep repeating that rhythm, but adding miles to my Monday run until it eventually becomes my long run. After that if I want more miles I'll look at adding some to my Tuesdays and Thursdays (currently both 2 x 5m very easy-easy).
TT - that's a lot of aims achieved in one week.......chest has been ok, coughing and coughing up rubbish as been the issue, as well as feeling rotten. Coughing after running will take a while to go, but was ok doing those reps.
Felt ok today after a few miles to loosen up the legs, so kept going as it was a nice morning in the lanes, ended up with 16m. Well timed as no long run for the next 2 weekends due to 10k races.
TT. The marathon entry to Abo will focus your training, I assume you've done it before?Autumn always seems a long way away until you've got a few weeks to go!
Got out for 5m when I arrived home yesterday. 10m today, quite toasty in 17 degrees so the vest was out again.
Yes Karl is very straight. I've seen some sessions he sets his troops and it's quite savage.
Which 10ks are pending?
Oo, we'll see what comes of the 'investigation '. PR next weekend. This one would definitely be too soon.
TT, sounds like a plan. I've wondered about doing doubles to boost miles off my relatively low mileage plan. How do you find it?
Wardi, hope you had a good trip away.
4m yesterday and 8 today for 26m week. Nothing faster than 8mm so hopefully that'll push recovery along. 9.5hours sleep per night as well the last 2 nights has really helped recovery along.
Step back up next week to 50m. The last few years I've come off a spring marathons, recovered for 4 weeks then done a 10-12 all inclusive holiday in Turkey just as I should be returning to normal. Its usually then taken until July just to get back to evens. This year it isn't happening so I'm hoping I'll enter summer racing in better shape
DT - think he has only recently found out about the tear......I have 2 x 10k in May, 2 in June and 1 in July. Most are seafront races. Next week is Bognor, flat but lots on the prom, so wind will be a factor. Ain of the series is to find some leg speed before 3 x HM thru July to Sept. Reckon I'll struggle next week but its race one of five.
Rainy 7m today. Supposed to dry up after today.
TR.. 5.3m in the warmth for me again this morning. Rain arrived in the afternoon, some lively thunderstorms not far away. Good to see the ground gradually drying up at last.
That's a decent schedule of shorter races.
Wardi, yes lots of quite pleasant canal and Riverside routes around Worcester. I've a good holiday free one now however I've a double holiday situation in quick succession late July and mid August.
6m with strides today and spin.
Great runs for OO, DT19 and Jooligan. Something for you all to take from that I think. Definitely sympathise with DT19 in the post-race analysis and how different that might have been for even a minute or twos difference in time.
Had a nice time on cruise, even if it wasn't quite as relaxing as i'd hoped with the little one in tow. Helped by my 22 miler on the Monday before we went the first week I managed 40 miles + 2 gym sessions and the second week I managed 49 miles + one gym session, again helped by a long run once I was home. I did some quicker stuff on the treadmill but the highlights were an 12 miler and 11 miler on ship which were 59 and 54 laps respectively of the running track on the ship. It certainly earned me some kudos from those milling about including a 2:46 marathoner from back in the day from New Zealand.
I was back Saturday and decided to do a final big marathon session Sunday with a test of the kit and the nutrition. Idea was 22 miles with 5x3 miles @ MP with a 1 mile float between. I've been having lots of feet blister type issues recently so I decided to risk it/spend some wear and tear money by wearing the alphaflys to check they'll be comfortable for the duration. I also had an idea in my head that I might be capable of running a 2:45 so wanted to test this as closely as possible. Beautiful morning, maybe a bit warm but probably not as warm as it'll be in 4 weeks and a route with similar climbing per mile.
In the end I managed 21 miles with 4x3 miles and 1x2 miles. The avg paces were (6:13, 6:13, 6:13, 6:13, 6:35). The first mile of that 6:35 avg was a 6:10 so I was going strong until that very final mile where I hit the wall. A friendly reminder of what that feels like but since I had all the answers I was going to get I walked home the final mile. I don't think it fully answers the question of what pace I should be going out at since it was a solo run with no carb loading and a very limited breakfast. However, post warm-up I ran a continuous 18 miles at 6:24 pace so I'd hope with the other variables in place I should be able to hold this for the duration? Curious if anyone has any thoughts on this.
Anyway, kit/shoes were good. Possibly need a little more carbs on the run and clearly plenty before. A bit of water or a carb mix might have helped with the heat and sweating. I think i'm pretty much cooked and ready to go. Yesterday did 3.5 miles for the head more than anything and this morning 8.5 miles with the buggy, both at very leisurely paces. Aiming for 1 more relaxed/time-on-feet 20 miler and then the usual sharpener type sessions you get with P&D. Race is 3 weeks on Sunday.