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The dreaded HR monitor
I would appreciate any kind of advice on this subject as I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to using these things.
All my running as normally been done on how I feel, but on the odd occasion I've given the hr monitor a go.
Anyway, yesterday I thought I'd use it to do my hill reps hoping to get a better idea of my max hr, as I've been using the 220-age formula. Now going by this formula my max should be 181bpm (on Friday)and then obviously from this I've worked out different training zones.
On my hill reps session yesterday I couldn't get my hr above 164bpm and on the odd occasion of using the hr monitor the highest I've ever got it was 167bpm. To be truthful I don't really understand these 'stupid' things and would like some help.
My resting hr is 48.
I was going to use it on the 20 mile race on Sunday to try and stay within marathon pace-how would I do that? Or should I just forget it and carry on as I've done in the last few years?
All my running as normally been done on how I feel, but on the odd occasion I've given the hr monitor a go.
Anyway, yesterday I thought I'd use it to do my hill reps hoping to get a better idea of my max hr, as I've been using the 220-age formula. Now going by this formula my max should be 181bpm (on Friday)and then obviously from this I've worked out different training zones.
On my hill reps session yesterday I couldn't get my hr above 164bpm and on the odd occasion of using the hr monitor the highest I've ever got it was 167bpm. To be truthful I don't really understand these 'stupid' things and would like some help.
My resting hr is 48.
I was going to use it on the 20 mile race on Sunday to try and stay within marathon pace-how would I do that? Or should I just forget it and carry on as I've done in the last few years?
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Comments
When you know this level you can then use it to work out all sorts of other things. You can start to tell when you've got a cold coming on & other such delights.
The HR monitor is like any other computer - if you put crap in (wrong HR levels) you get crap out.
Good Luck
Have you ever used it in races Hilly ? That might have given you a higher reading.
I thought doing a hill rep session would push my hr up, yet it didn't appear to. Does this mean I'm not working hard enough on 'tough' days.
I understand 5k to be the best distance to get true max?
I'm doing a time trial on Tuesday of 3 miles, but it's only 2 days after doing Christchurch 20 so don't know if I'll be 'flat out'.
I'd think the best way to do it would be on a treadmill, warm up for 10-15 mins, and then increase the pace every min or two, until you can go no further. Helps if you have a mate to encourage you, do the speed, time you and record the heart rate throughout.
I'm sure other people have good ideas about recording your running MHR though ?
It only really made sense to me once I'd
a) had my max measured and
b) used it on a number of different types of runs and races and built up a pattern of hr data.
Why are you disappointed when you look at the screen?
Not only does the max make a huge difference, but your training zones could be different from another runner's depending on how your training was structured and what you were aiming for. E.g. as a well trained runner you might be capable of running a 20 mile race at 80-82% working heart rate (different from straight max, see Ron Grover's thread for a debate on this - if you dare), whereas a less experienced runner might run at 75%.
I found it really useful as a beginner and I now use it to make sure I work hard enough on tempo runs especially. As you are already well trained (and have no trouble pushing yourself judging by your training posts!), the benefits from using one might not be as great - unless you subsequently use the data to make some changes to your training and/or racing it's really only another gadget.
I went to a local sports science department and did a VO2 max test on a treadmill, 3mins at ever increasing speeds until I couldn't tolerate it any longer. Cost about £30 but then I got a lovely long report with pretty graphs in it as well!
Short steep hill reps are supposed to be a good way of testing it outside, good with someone else to shout at you to try harder. By your 3rd or 4th rep push as hard as you can for the final one, you'll recognise the exquisite nausea you probably feel when sprinting the final 1/2m of a 10K race! Don't forget to wait a few seconds at the top before checking, until your hr peaks.
Obviously we expect a full report on the Training thread, once you've done it.
My gym does fitness check ups where they get your VO2 max & HR max, have you anything like that?
My HRM has given me a reading of 217 on a couple of occassions, but I have never got it to anywhere over about mid 180s on a regular hill training session.
I'm not sure how much I trust them.
The disappointment is because I expected to be able to push harder on the hills and was expecting to see my hr shoot higher. Mind my legs were still suffering a little form Saturday's long run.
I'm just after the knowledge of using a HR monitor affectively I think.
I might wait until my legs are not marathon training before attempting a MHR test.
"gary"-I'm not sure if my gym does anything like that, but I'll ask next time I go to circuits.
Thanks all!
I attempt to use mine sporadically but to be honest it doesn't make a lot of sense without knowing the max.
Using the 'broad brush' formulae , mine should be in the 180s (I'm 36), with a resting HR of 35-40.
Even on hard reps/hills etc mine doesn't get beyond the high 160s, on the down side it races into the 130-140s fairly easily.
Maybe I should get a book on it........
1) You won't get a true Max HR unless you do it when you are fully recovered. I'm not surprised your HR appeared so low. Mine is about 173 but during hill reps and speed sessions I can push it to no more than 167. I can only attain the 173 if I've not trained for 3 or 4 days. A sure sign (for me anyway) of overtraining is the inability to push my HR to its normal high levels.
2) Unless you have been using it for at least a year and fully understand what it means it would not be a good idea to base your race on it. But what it is useful for is providing feedback after the event. You'll then know what your race pace is for different events and base your race pace training sessions on these rates.
3) During long runs I can tell when I've hit the wall! My HR starts to drop rapidly.
I wore it for a couple of hours last night in bed (SAD)while I was reading to see what it says my RHR is. When in a totally relaxed state, no movement it's 42bpm, but when just normal relaxing, turning the odd pace it was 45-48. Apart from telling me that I'm obviously fit to have such a low HR, what else can I use that figure for? Sorry if I sound ignorant!!
On my marathon paced run today, which I was having to work for, but was comfortable it was between 142-150, going up to 157 on the 3 steep hills I had to negotiate. Will keep a record of the different readings, as you say over a year maybe and try to make sense of them.
As for the MHR test, I think that will have to wait until after the marathon as there is very little chance me being fully rested until then.
Thanks everyone, I'm quite enjoying just gathering data and although it means little at the moment, hopefully in time it will.
I was given my HRM for Christmas and get very similar readings to you, with a RHR of about 47bpm and when I do speed sessions whether 400m or hill reps the HRM peaks at 165-166, my age adjusted estimate would be 186bpm. I wore it for a 10k race on Sunday and had a reading of 177bpm coming into the home stretch.
Like you I belived I could attain my MHR fromm doing speed reps by the time you get to about the 8th reps of say 10. But I don't think I do! Like you I am a bit in the dark as to what it actually is.
Drew, your point of not being fully recovered is an interesting one.
SH
RHR is quite a useful indicator of overtraining and recovery. My normal RHR is about 41, with it sometimes as low as 37, but in general 41 'ish. If it's above 50 I will not do any training as my body's telling me that I haven't recovered from my previous session.
here are two commonly used MHR tests that you might like to try.
Stress Test 1
For this test you need a good hill. The hill needs to take you about two minutes to run up it and of sufficient gradient to ensure you are breathing hard at its summit. The test begins around five minutes running time from the hill. Gradually accelerate towards the hill achieving 85% MHR (for the first time) at the base of the hill. As you hit the hill maintain your speed by increasing your effort. Your heart rate will rise and you will tire. Without falling over, keep an eye on your monitor and make a mental note of your highest heart rate as you work towards the top of the hill.
Stress Test 2
For those unfortunate enough to live in an area lacking hills it is possible to carry out a test on a flat piece of road or at your local running track. The plan of attack is to run 800 meters very quick. For the first 400 meters run at up to your current 90/95% MHR (to be achieved by the end of the first lap) and for the last 400 go for it. During this second lap you should max out. Very fit athletes may have to repeat this test after a few minutes rest (minimum of 65% MHR) to be able to achieve a true maximum. This test is very reliable.
you can find a lot more useful stuff where this came from which is here.
good luck. let us know how you get on when you try for your max!
Thanks I'll attempt something in the near future!
BTW great site, I've saved it to my favourites.
I then used it in a couple of 10k races and noted that I was generally up between 185-187 i.e. over theoretical 100% with a peak at 195 during a "sprint (I use the term advisedly) finish"
So my suggestion would be use it in a couple of short races where you anticipate giving 100% effort.
I've never really been interested in HR monitors in the past as I'm pretty good at judging my pace. Who knows I might be able to 'tweak' my race pace a bit more with this knowledge, although I doubt it.
I'm now planning to pace myself almost totally on heart rate for this years FLM keeping it around 167 for the first half and then allowing for the natural creep upwards in the second half to a max of 172. This way I am hoping that i won't over do it from the start and will have enough left for a negative split in the second half.
As an unexpected bonus I reckon the chest band helped keep my running vest away from the old nips and thus prevented nip rash!
Worth considering anyway...
The only reason I'm not going to wear it to collect information in this marathon is I don't want to be distracted by looking at something that would mean very little.
As for being used for prevention of nip rash, thankfully this isn't a problem:O)
Instead I now know roughly what my racing HR is for 5K (178-181ish) and the marathon (high 160s/low 170s) so have extrapolated it from these to be in the high 190s.
However, after resting from a Tuesday until a 10km race on the Sunday, up a hill in the race i clocked 189 so i use 189 as my max for working out the figures. The adrenaline for the race, combined with the rest before and the hilll gave the truest reading.
I use my HRM as i do a lot of training on my own. It's my personal training partner!
Once got it up to 199 (I was 31 at the time) but only really use it now on tempo runs to make sure I am within the required range - not pushing too hard but not in toomuch of a comfort zone.
When I used it for circuits it the other day I reached a peak of 232!!!!!!!! I know it can't be true as I didn't work THAT hard.
And also on the way home from the circuit session I reached a max of 215 on a gentle jog. I only found this out looking through the files on my watch now. Strange
I've also heard that wearing it in a crowd of people (say a race) can give odd readings.
Like Dangly, I think it works best as a training partner. I always used to go too fast on my long, slow runs before I wore one for example.
I wouldnt bother wearing one in a race though.
Chimp - have we caught you out here - thought you were dead set against regular use ?!!
Drew - you are soo right about not being able to hit max being an indicator of overtraining.....ran really well and fast for 9 minutes a couple of days ago at 200-206 (new max) after nearly 3 weeks virtual rest. Was struggling to even reach let alone maintain 195 the whole of November / December / January....
Game set and match to Shattered Shins.