Q&A with #asics262 coach Sam Murphy

SamMurphyRuns · February 2015

Slowkoala wrote (see)

Hi Sam,
I'm doing the London Marathon in April and am following the up to 55m P&D schedule. I've got the Brighton HM at the end of this month and also have a place in the Finchley 20 on 8th March. I've now got a place at the North London HM the week after, on 15th March which I'd like to do as lots of parents and teachers from my kids school are running it. But I don't want to burn out! Last time I raced the F20 at 15 secs less than my marathon pace and this worked out OK. But would it be mad to race a 20 miler and a HM back to back? Would I be better off treating the F20 as a training run and racing the HM?

Hi SK, my feeling is that it would indeed be mad to race a 20-miler and a HM back-to-back. In fact, I'm not a big fan of racing 20-milers at all in marathon training - it all too often becomes a hugely successful dress rehearsal that doesn't translate into race day performance. I'd treat F20 as a training run, maybe running it as progression run with last segment at MP. Shame the HMs are so close together (3 weeks) - would be better if they were more spaced out to use as a measure of progress.

Good advice to everyone with marathons coming up: Keep the bigger picture in mind with race planning - what's your priority and what's best going to help you achieve it? Sometimes we let other things (eg PB chasing/convenience/'oh I've already entered bla, so I HAVE to do it now) get in the way of smart decision making...

VA · February 2015

Hi Sam,

I know I should have done other races but I haven't. I'm a bit obsessed with marathons but I will start the shorter ones as I know how important they are for training and motivation. I have timed myself on two occasions when the plan said half-marathon race. My Soleus said just under 1.36 once and 1.38 the second time.

What do you think? To be honest, sub.3.30 is my dream goal but I'd be happy with sub-3.35 for the moment given that my PB is 3.40.

[Deleted User] · February 2015

Hi Sam

I'm looking to do another marathon (possibly Chester this year or one in the Spring 2016). At the moment I'm concentrating on half marathons. I'm chasing a 4:30 marathon and it would be my fourth. What time would I be looking to get for a half marathon for it to translate into a marathon of 4:30? Also, I've only even gone up to 20 miles on a marathon plan, is there a benefit to going up to a 22miler?

Thanks!

SLx

SamMurphyRuns · February 2015

Rickter wrote (see)

Hi Sam

I suffered a calf injury/strain approx. 5 weeks before Berlin marathon last year whilst on a training run. I was approx. 17 miles into a planned 20 mile run.

I have visited physios and have been assured that I have not sustained any damage. However I have pains in my calf during and more so after completing runs.

I have run very little since Sept 2014. I have not run during Jan 2015 due to 'man flu' My calf is feeling better, but can still feel a slight pain, but I'm worried that the calf pain may reoccur ?

What advice would you give, as I have entered Berlin 2015 and would dislike a reoccurring injury.

Many Thanks

Rickter wrote (see)

Hi Sam

I suffered a calf injury/strain approx. 5 weeks before Berlin marathon last year whilst on a training run. I was approx. 17 miles into a planned 20 mile run.

I have visited physios and have been assured that I have not sustained any damage. However I have pains in my calf during and more so after completing runs.

I have run very little since Sept 2014. I have not run during Jan 2015 due to 'man flu' My calf is feeling better, but can still feel a slight pain, but I'm worried that the calf pain may reoccur ?

What advice would you give, as I have entered Berlin 2015 and would dislike a reoccurring injury.

Many Thanks

Hi Rickter, You have the luxury of time, with your race many months away so now is the time to strengthen your calves, and also perhaps, have your biomechanics checked out to see whether the calves are sore as a result of something else being weak/badly aligned.

Have a look at this video, for a good way of warming up/mobilising the calves before you run http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/target262/asics-video/warm-up-and-mobilisation-moves-with-coach-sam/12733.html

And start to incorporate calf raising/lowering into your training routine - basically, you stand on the edge of a step/stair and rise up on to the balls of teh feet - as high as you can. Pause, then lower down below the horizontal and repeat. Do the move fairly slowly. You can start with double-leg ones and then progress to rising up on both legs, lowering on one. There are lots of video refs on the web for this. Do it with your knee straight, and then a set with knee bent, to work both sets of calf muscles. Enjoy!

Christian1975 · February 2015

Hi Sam, thanks very much for the reply, I've not been totally off running so hopefully should be ok to about 14 again, will definitely take on board the feedback though and see how the legs feel after a shorter run first, thanks also for the long run advice, looks manageable and very sensible, thanks again.

Christian

SamMurphyRuns · February 2015

bramster wrote (see)

Hi Sam.. just realised I was meant to post here and not twitter!

Hope you're well! I got a dodgy flu on 6th Jan and it's not quite gone yet... wondering where in the plan or how to adjust the plan for Paris? wk1? wk3? wk7? .. was following asics 3:30 plan but am considering 4hr or some sort of hybrid..

Thanks in advance

Hi Bramster, poor you. So I guess you've hardly been able to do anything (and very sensible too, with flu). The best way back in - providing you are properly better now (because if you're not, you might just trigger a resurgence of symptoms) would be to go back to week 3 which is around where you left off. Then have a look at the weeks you missed and see which 1 or 2 you could skip (eg. in my plans there was a low-mileage week with a 10k in it) to begin trying to move forwards again. I'm saying this because I know you have a good base of endurance - a beginner would not be advised to do this! I know that you'd made some great progress recently and that 3.30 was attainable but don't push yourself too hard, too soon with paces. You've still got enough time to get back up to speed - and I'm glad you've acknowledged that you might need to modify expectations this time around if it takes a bit of time to get back on form. Good luck!

SamMurphyRuns · February 2015

RunnerManSam wrote (see)

Hi Sam

I'm doing my 2nd marathon at London (3:11 in 2014). When in my teens (now late 20's) I did a lot of running but have only come back to doing regular training in the past 12 months or so. Looking for a little bit of advice on the following:

1) My target is sub-3hours, currently I'm up to around 17/18 miles and am able to run at target MP quite comfortably. Would you advise to just carry on increasing volume up until 22 miles or so, or given how long runs are currently going should I consider changing them up a bit or even raising target? Conscious that I could become stale running at this pace. I am doing a long run each week with 3 or 4 other runs, one of which includes some sort of quality session.

2) How late is advisable to run a half marathon? It would be treated as a race and not marathon practice.

Thanks in advance

RunnerManSam wrote (see)

Hi Sam

I'm doing my 2nd marathon at London (3:11 in 2014). When in my teens (now late 20's) I did a lot of running but have only come back to doing regular training in the past 12 months or so. Looking for a little bit of advice on the following:

1) My target is sub-3hours, currently I'm up to around 17/18 miles and am able to run at target MP quite comfortably. Would you advise to just carry on increasing volume up until 22 miles or so, or given how long runs are currently going should I consider changing them up a bit or even raising target? Conscious that I could become stale running at this pace. I am doing a long run each week with 3 or 4 other runs, one of which includes some sort of quality session.

2) How late is advisable to run a half marathon? It would be treated as a race and not marathon practice.

Thanks in advance

Hi Sam,

It sounds as if you are running all your long runs at marathon race pace. If that's correct then I'd recommend you drop the pace back a bit, which will possibly enable you to think about a faster target. If you carry on extending the distance and running them all at race pace you are going to burn out before race day.

It's definitely realistic to get your long run up to 22 miles on 1 or more occasions. But perhaps think about changing the focus or your long runs a bit. So you could do progression runs, where you start off, say, 60 secs slower than race pace, then speed up to 30 seconds slower and finish at race pace. Or do a 'fast finish' run where you run mostly easy, but finish fast (eg last 5 miles). Or practise a negative split on an 'out and back' route - running second half faster than first. All these will challenge your physical/mental endurance in different ways and keep the long run stimulating and challenging. It's more effective than just going out and doing 18,, 20 miles every weekend.

Schedule a half for no later than 5 weeks out if you want to race it properly. You'll then get a good estimate of your potential to run 3, or even faster...

SamMurphyRuns · February 2015

snail lady wrote (see)

Hi Sam

I'm looking to do another marathon (possibly Chester this year or one in the Spring 2016). At the moment I'm concentrating on half marathons. I'm chasing a 4:30 marathon and it would be my fourth. What time would I be looking to get for a half marathon for it to translate into a marathon of 4:30? Also, I've only even gone up to 20 miles on a marathon plan, is there a benefit to going up to a 22miler?

Thanks!

SLx

Hi Snail Lady, I'd be looking for a half of around 2.02-2.05 for a sub 4.30 marathon. Regarding peak distance, it all depends on your starting point, injury propensity and time availability. If trying to get up to 22 meant doing lots of consecutive weeks of progressively-longer long runs and you're injury prone I'd say it's not worth it. But if you're quite experienced (I note you've done 3 maras), can leave plenty of time for your build-up and aren't injury-prone then it's worth building up to a peak of 22, along with some well-spaced out 20s in your next training plan. Hope that helps.

[Deleted User] · February 2015

Thanks Sam!

SamMurphyRuns · February 2015

Vincenzo, you're just about where you need to be, half-marathon wise with those times. So it's definitely a possibility, with the right training

You'll definitely benefit from including some shorter races in your training - it gives you another 'gear' in your running and getting your half m time down to 1.35 would also give you the confidence for a sub 3.30...

SamMurphyRuns · February 2015

Thanks for all the questions everyone. Hope the answers have been helpful and wish you all the best with your training.

[Deleted User] · February 2015

SamMurphyRuns wrote (see)

David W Bannister wrote (see)

Hi Sam,

I have (rather scarily) just been offered a place in the London Marathon by a local charity I do quite a lot of work with. It's a bit last minute as their only runner has got injured and can no longer make it. I've run a couple of halves before, but never a full marathon, and only have 11 weeks before the big day!

I struggle to get too many runs in each week. I run at lunchtimes (usually between 5 and 10k as it's all time allows) a couple of times a week and try to get a long run in at the weekend. Is this enough? How long should the long runs be at this stage and is there a suggested plan you could recommend. I ran a fairly comfortable 15 miles earlier this week, so I'm hoping I'm not too far off where I should be!

One things I am slightly worried about is fuelling during the run. I tried an energy gel once and it made me feel really sick! During my first half I ate a few jelly beans and I don't think that did me any favours either! What are my options?! I'm a bit stuck with it, but feel I can't go a whole 26 miles without something! (I usually just run with water)

Many thanks in advance

Slightly petrified David!

Hi David

It’s all about expectations. If you want to make it round in one piece and raise money for the charity then I think you’ll be fine with your current fitness level and the time remaining. If, however, you want to get round in, say, sub-4 hours or whatever, you’ve got a harder task in store and will be under a lot more pressure.

In terms of training, you’re in the right place! Check out the website’s marathon training plans and you should find one that suits your current fitness level and goal – also worth getting on to Tony First Timer’s thread, and also Andrea Westcott – they are building up for the Paris marathon as part of this Asics 262 project, and there’s lots of good advice and expertise on there. Andrea and Tony are up to 16 miles on their long runs, so you have no panic there. Ideally you’d need to add in an extra session a week if you can (so, 4 x runs inc 1 long). You will struggle to build up to sufficient mileage on 3 runs a week, especially with the limits of your weekday ones. Even if you can only do 4 x sessions every other week, it’s better than nothing…

A good rule of thumb to figure out a potential marathon goal as a first timer is to double your half marathon time and add 20 minutes.

Nutrition-wise, you are right - you need some carbohydrate to fuel you round a marathon. It's definitely worth experimenting with other gel brands than the one you tried, also shot bloks, jelly beans... It's possible to eat 'real' food, of course, such as dried fruit but it's less easy to know how much carbs you're getting (you'll typically need 30-60g per hour of running). You have 11 weeks to find your ideal fuel! Look out for Asics Pro Team nutritionist Ruth McKean's webchat in the coming weeks - she may be able to give you further advice. Good luck with it…

Brilliant, thanks Sam! I will try to up the runs during the week, and as it gets lighter in the mornings and evenings I may be able to get some in before and/or after work. I can run in the dark if necessary, but I'm not so keen on it!! I'm really pleased to hear I'm at least in the right ball-park mileage wise. My last half was 1:42,

VA · February 2015

Thank YUO!!!!

anniesophie · February 2015

Great advice as always....thanks Sam!!

bramster · February 2015

Thanks Sam!.. Very much appreciate your putting this Q&A on.

There's a few other comments you've made on this tread which I see I need to be mindful of too.. Really beneficial session.

Hope to be back on the road and RW threads again soon

Aye
Bramster

reikirabbit · February 2015

Thanks Sam!

spot on as usual.

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