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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Ric, I do indeed know Bathwick Hill, but have never felt any desire to run up the bastard, Hope you can get back running soon.
I notice I already have a couple of dirty Strava stalkers.
Decent reps in the circumstances PMJ.
I also decided to do some reps. Did 8 x 400 at 5K pace, well not 5K pace as it turned out, but not to worry, just trying to get back towards some faster stuff, so pace not too critical.
Onto shoe geekery now, I was breaking in a pair of On Cloudracers. They look like this:
Now, my disclaimer is that I only own these weird shoes because I had collected a number of vouchers for a running shop some distance away in a place I would never go for any other reason. Having gone there specifically to spend these vouchers last week on a day off, I had to buy something, as I wasn't going to come again, and these actually felt really light and comfy.
I've checked a couple of online reviews, and the appearance divides opinion between "gimmicky" and "stylish"/"eye-catching". Interestingly, the former reaction tends to come from runners (and mirrors my initial thoughts), whilst the latter tends to come from triathletes. Read into that what you will.
Anyway, they weren't too bad.
Dachs, horrible trainers, nice "semi" racing effort.
Phil, better pace, but 2 reps less son? I'd probably do 5x800s anyway, for whatever reason, maybe simply as it's the equivalent of the 10x400 i do, and also vaguely along the lines of less total distance than the intensity aim of the session (ie 2.5miles (ish) at 5k pace, but stil must re-assure you post marathon.
Iron, i think i'm just seeking inspiration at the mo, seems a mundane dull point in time, footy season ending, and a spot of casual coaching felt a good idea. I don't necessarily want to get too involved while i still possibly have one last crack at some ferocious training and racing (the idea of me racing eh!)
Maybe the getting some randoms in and combining with work lot will work well next week. Or it could end up being a woefully ill advised mess.. time will tell.
If it all goes to pot, i'll just run off.
Dachs; was that Alton Sports? Oddly enough I went out of my way over there at the weekend for exactly the same reason and they were pushing that brand really hard. Did a bit of net research whilst there and it seems they were designed by an ex top duathlete/triathlete, so that would tie in with your comments about the split opinions. Personally also felt they were nice and comfy but very expensive so didn't bother.
Indeed it was Pete. To be fair, they weren't pushing them too hard to me, and the vouchers took most of the damage anyway.
Oh dear, Dachs! First ridiculous arm warmers, then the lycra shorts and now these hideous trainers
You have more triathlon gear than I do!
Cortina: As Bus mentioned, being injured gives me a chance to revert to my natural state which is being almost immobile.
Really, I'm the polar opposite of many runners; or quite a lot of people, in that I have zero nervous energy.
The less I do, the more I tend towards doing even less.
If I don't run. I soon forget all about it. That's something I have to fight against...
and becoming a fat bastard!
🙂
Ric, I cannot imagine you fat.
Although I can imagine you as a bastad from some of your late night digs
You'll be back. I'm as certain of that as I am that I'll be passionately ranting about something this time next week.
SG - the work "jogging" club is like that - difficult to get commitment, but they do come and go! Persistance is the key...
I quite like 'em Dachs. Not sure I'd get away with them, but as a 2:36 marathoner you can wear any damn trainers you like
Philip - a lot of my session seem to be turning out like that! At least you have the excuse of a recent marathon in your legs!
No excuse for my dire run home tonight! 7.5 turned to 8 thanks to a diversion to avoid some rather boisterous young cows, plus I tripped and have tweaked a hamstring, but generally the legs just felt like they had nothing to give and I was slow as shite. Really bizarre, given such an easy week. Doesn't bode well for Marlow on Sunday
Yep Bus, luckily I always think things through and didn't petulantly just cancel the whole thing immediately
Next week i'll have extras due to the steps I;ve taken. Sods law dictates we'll probably have 30 
Go easy with your offroad stuff...I always picture you lying to yourself that you're running "easy", ignoring the fact that your 7.30 pace is up a mountain.
Hope Marlow goes well. Doesn't seem a full year ago that the mighty MTSG were stitched up and conned out of our rightful high stakes trophy
WE WAS ROBBED! Bastards!
I also laugh when I see Bus' 7:30 uphill easy runs.
I don't think I've run since Tuesday, it seems so far away now. I might make it to one of the three Copenhagen parkruns on Saturday morning. That will definitely be an easy easy easy run. Shame as it is flatter than Bushy.
Odd, I tend to have the session about the same total distance, so for 5k training I try and do 5000m on the track, so 5x1000m, 6x800m, 8x600m or 12x400m. The 400m I will do in three sets of 4x400m and the 600 in two sets of 4x600m.
It's interesting, reading around the net, there seem to be as many entries for either one. 10 or 12 x400m, 5 or 6 x800. Although the 12 at least has the difference of more luxurious rests than the straight 60secs 10x400.
I think though on reflection, and checking back through past records, that the mantra we worked to, is "don't do MORE distance than the race distance in reps", rather than "do less". so I was a bit clumsy wording/misremembering a bit.
In terms of 5k pace, although I have done a couple of 5x800s, there are also a couple of 6x800s at 5k. I can only guess the former is an earlier part of a cycle, or less recovery on the 5x, than the 6x.
There was one "rule breaking" 7x800 at 5k once, mixtures of other paces, and the ferocious 5x800k at 3k pace, which was just about doable off 2.30-3min recoveries, but not off 90secs.
I'm still to some extent feeling back into "proper" sessions after this frustrating 7 or so month period of good mileage but not the real stuff, so I suppose being on the road, a 5x800 (well, half mile) off 90secs was alright. To word it differently, I need to get my head around fancying working so hard again, hence starting with the lovely 200s, and then 400s as you can generally rifle those off whatever state you're in.
Heck, I rifled some 400s off a few weeks after the collapse, even though the min recoveries were the biggest wheeze fest you could imagine.
But, the idea of doing something like say, 5x1mile at 10k pace would fill me with dread!
Perhaps on the smoother, safer regular track, would either go for 60sec recoveries on a 5, or do a 6th rep.
From that fly through the 5+ years of training from the Moz, I can only again marvel at how fresh he kept it every week.
Over such a long period, I think only the 6 to 6.5m MP sessions were frequently repeated. Everything else, evolved, and he was still surprising me with new sessions near the time I had to just drop out!
SG, the late night digs are really about killing an idle moment. I'm not really out to 'get someone'. Just a touch of boredom.
I confess that I was trained (by a couple of guys from Nuneaton) in the art of the 'wind up'.
I was deemed a consultant on such matters when on one occasion I had a guy screaming in my face (frothing at the mouth literally) without him coming up with any particular reason for doing so.
I remember standing passively by until he'd blown himself out, and then with concern saying, " Andy, you appear to be upset about something?".
I made him a cup of tea after the second explosion.
Not often you get a solicitor; of all people, to go red mist.
I didn't hold with some bystanders opinion that I should have 'decked him'.
🙂
My coach believes in doing more volume in training than the race. So tonight he set a 5k race pace for 6*1k. Of course you don't do it off 60 secs recovery. (I'm not overly keen mind)
Always Dean? Or at key times?
Ric, I get it
I have some fun with a colleague at work by keeping an exceptionally deadpan tone and expressionless face, and she really struggles to work out what is serious and what is a wind up
Reasonably often. Not every week all yr but for an 10 week training plan for a 5k there would be a over volume session in once a week. It's hard work but sometimes that's not a bad thing. Some sessions should be hard work and have you struggling.
As for sessions I can't remember not doing something that was pretty close to race pace (date pace) or not equivalent in volume to race distance or near enough.. Think I've found why (although I ran well) I was caught in the middle with some decent times but running workouts well and showing I could run a lot faster, not enough direct work on speed + speed endurance for 5km and then not enough aerobic miles to go longer over 10km and stuff.. Just doing a mix match of workouts and this is where I need a coach really
An example before for me would be 400 reps, would vary from 8-12 previously but this time around at least 16, same pace and same recovery. In a way I know I needed some big adjustments with recoveries really but I haven't done that
I do believe you need to be hitting race goal volume in the sessions you are using to train for the day. Rarely under for much time, I just can't see it being beneficial
12 miles for me this week ... Pain in the arse has been moderate but much more manageable with the medication now for a good week
I guess it depends on where you are in the macrocycle.
In the early days I would get 10-12 400s with 400m jog recovery. This is about building some speed but also getting adequate recovery and still maintaining volume. As the season moves on that might tend towards a 60s recovery instead.
When I complained that I had the speed but not the endurance we moved to 1km or 1mi reps instead. Again on 1km or 1mi recovery. This keeps the session volume high whilst adding endurance.
Of course this is for me where I am targeting races with 2x 10km runs at less slightly below threshold pace. For 5km or 1500m specialists the training would be different.
My coach also has a keen eye on my health and generally errs on the side of caution so I don't break. Of course like Dean I sometimes get the odd session that makes me wonder about the sanity of the session but they are all achievable. They might be bloody hard work, but still achievable.
As a tri coach I'd typically start with some base work in the Autumn term then maybe start bringing in some longer intervals with long recovery in Spring, moving towards shorter harder intervals with shorter rest as the term moves on. End of Spring beginning of Summer is all about race prep so it's all hard and fast but with plenty of recovery. This is a bit broadbrush and more relevant to the older age-groups and adults rather than the youngsters who are still mastering coordination and working on skills more than speed.
Interesting chat re: training volumes. I've probably done a variation but my thinking has been to do either the race volume or close to it. Psychologically, as much as anything, if I know I can knock out 5x 1k at target 5k pace off 90s, then I'll feel I've got a good chance at hitting the target on race day. I have done a couple of over-volume sessions - the big one I remember was 2 sets of 5x 1k @ 10k pace, followed up with 5x 200m. Actually - I'm maybe mis-remembering that. It might have been a straight 8x 1k + the 200s and did the 2x 5x1k as a standalone... It's all mapped out for me by my coach in any case!
5,000m race last night. Target was 17:30 to get a second gold standard for the club. It was f***ing windy and I have a bit of a cold, so confidence wasn't as brimming as it was for the 3,000m race, but I was going to give it a bloody good try anyway... Came in in 17:44.55 for a PB (well, I've never raced 5,000m so it was always going to be a PB but it's a PB in 5k/Parkrun territory in any case).
Way off the 17:30 in the end and I think I can put a decent chunk of that down to the horrible wind, but I don't know if I'd have got 17:30 on a calm night. Maybe.
Plan was to chase AAAC runner James Gray who's consistently beat me but not by huge margins. He got just sub 10 at the 3,000m, so thought he'd be a good marker. He went off way too quickly though so I only tracked him for about 100m and let him drift away. Sort of running solo as a result although he was never too far in front - maybe 20m or so. Ticked the laps off and was trying to do the maths in my head each time I went through but not easy when working off 1:24 laps! I went through 1k at about 3:26/3:27 which was obviously a bit quick. Missed the 2k time and went through 3k at 10:31 - 1 second slower than target. The last 2k must have been a good chunk slower though. I went through the bell in 16:20ish. Only a 70 second final lap required...!
The real positive was cruising past James Gray with 4 laps to go and putting 12 seconds between us by the finish. I also didn't get lapped by the front runners this time!! 5th out of 16.
And - last time I tried to run 17:30 at a Parkrun, I went through 3k in 10:30 and then fell apart and finished in 18:05, so definitely some decent progress and I was working harder in that first 3k due to the wind. 10k race a week on Sunday
Nicely done CC!
Good work CC.
Did my first 10 mile time trial on my TT bike last night. I haven't ridden it since last summer and the saddle has torn me a new one!
It was a nice change from the running though. Think I finished about 23:40 averaging 25.6 mph. Still have a few aero improvements bits to add, like my new wheels and some to remove remove, like my leg hair
. Hopefully I can get into the 22:xx with the extra aero bits and a bit more time on the bike.
Looking at post marathon run number three later, maybe I am taking this recovery too easy. Once you start trying to do three sports it suddenly becomes difficult to get the balance.
Maybe time for a coach or plan.
you were using the P&D marathon plan though weren't you AG? So not like you were pishing in the wind. It's the fusing with your other sports that confuses it all, would you consider going just running for a period? Or do you love the other stuff too much?
Back in Marlow days, a chap gave me a set of workouts, that I must admit meant jack to me, and I did nothing with it. Looking at them now in a bit more detail, it looks some decent stuff.
Basically there are 3 workouts each at 5k, 3k, 1500m, 800m intensity as follows
5k (82sec laps)
3k (78sec laps)
1500m (74sec laps)
800m (70sec laps)
What do people think of that little set? They're ordered on the sheet 1-12, so you start with number 1of 5k/3k/1500/800, and then number 2of each etc.
Might have to look at the lap timings...or they might work well already, i'm not sure. Certainly for say 16x200 off 60s, im used to doing 12x200 off 90secs, so "slowing" to 37s might make sense...
By the time we're into the small reps, we're looking at 2-3min recoveries, so clearly very intense.
Could be worth while doing a proper full 6 weeks on this sort of training. Thoughts?
ps CC, still sounds a decent runout. Can't imagine a 5k on a track is too easy to start with, all those laps! But it should be a chunk faster than any road/parkrun at least. If you go and do a parkrun shortly and hit the same time, that should guarantee there's a chunk to come off!
CC, good new PB there. Would have been amazing if you did a 17:30 as that is a big chunk off whatever fat PB you had sitting there to break.
Seems bikes are much faster now then when I was turning the crank back in the 80s. Must be a swap over: runners were faster in the 80s and bikes slower, now bikes are faster and runners are slower.
There was a young lad that ran his 800m race last night in about 2:08 and looked gutted at the end. He went through 400m in bang on 60s and I thought, here we go...
But he slowed a good bit obviously which was a shame. He was front running by himself, way ahead of everyone else and the wind must have taken it out of him. No idea, who he is or what his PB is but a sub 2 looked on the cards at halfway which would have been tasty in those conditions.
I am sure bikes are faster but it's still the rider that makes up most of the drag. I think I saw 80% somewhere. Maybe the main difference, due to the trickle down effect, is that faster bikes are much more affordable.
SG - Yes I followed P&D but obviously that has finished now and I am back to triathlon until the Autumn now. So, I now need something similar but for triathlon, rather than just winging it.
I think I will continue to focus on running in the winter and triathlon in the summer. It keeps things fresh and fun. Maybe I will never maximise my running but I can live with that.
Though aero bikes for TT greatly reduce drag and hence improve speed compared to 80s road bikes though don't they? Either way - good speed!!
CC - very good time that, regardless of track, road or parkrun!
Grr! Marlow 5 is looking ropey now. That hamstring tweak last night is really giving me gyp today, and combined with the adductor flaring up in the same leg is not proving very comfortable. I did a shortish easy run this morning and while the legs still felt oddly heavy there wasn't any real pain until the last mile, but has hurt ever since....
God you lot have been busy bees on here. on the 400's debate - can't knock a couple of 20 x 400 sessions to make you feel very smug about finishing them. Good race CC, more good progress there! Dachs - yes not sure about those sneakers pal
Quick report from Weds - 3000m at Eastern vets. Great conditions, felt good, but...too many on the strart line at 7.45, so we had to let the ladies go first, bit annoying. Anyway, we went off at about 8.05, just that little bit breezier and chiilier (of sorts).
So. the 2 year vets winning streak was always going to be smashed as a 14.51 (15.22) last week guy from MK had just turned 35! So he sprinted off early doors and I stuck to 75's, although I got boxed and had to nearly stop and go round the outside to get some clear track. Worryingly couldn't chip much lower than 75's until the last couple of laps, got to the bell at 8.09 and managed to do a 69 last lap to end up with 9.18. Mark from MK ended up with 9.00
Not sure what to think, same kick off 3000 as most other years, but trying to improve by 29 seconds is going to be tough