Hi all,
Looking for some advice. Yesterday I did my local 10k – not one of my better races: I woke up the morning before the race with a cold, and on the day I went off too fast, had to stop for a 30 second wee (!) at 5 km and was really struggling for the last 2-3 km. But I finished in 44:04. My PB (set on the same course in 2017) is 42:55. The course is relatively hilly in the middle, with a total elevation of 80-90 m.
I’m 38, male, BMI 22. I used to run more regularly in my late 20s/early 30s but in recent years I’ve tended to only run my local 10k in March and another local 5 miler in July. Typically I start training for these events 2-3 months beforehand and often stop running in between (in which time I usually cycle, so I’m rarely completely inactive). For example, this time I started running in November and did a 4 mile route once a week for 2 months, gradually improving my splits from 5:30 min/km to 4:39 min/km. From the start of January I then added a faster session (e.g. 4 km at 4:15 min/km or 3 x 200 m hill sprints with 1 km jog recovery in between). For the past 6 weeks I’ve been doing three sessions a week (combination of the 4 mile steady run and shorter fast runs, with the occasional longer run e.g. 10 or 12 km thrown in) averaging 15-20 km total per week. I did pretty much the same in 2017 when I set my 10k PB, and my times were as good/slightly better towards the end of my training this year, so I think I’m in relatively good shape. I did my first Parkrun in 21:04 the week before the 10k. This is pretty typical for me over the past 10-15 years. I do 2-3 months training and get to around 43-45 min for 10k, then I stop.
I’d now love to get under 40 min for 10k. I realise this is a big leap from 43-45 min, but considering the time it’s taken for me to get to 44 min with a maximum of 3 fairly unstructured sessions a week, it seems achievable if I commit - what do you think? The main thing I need to decide is how long I’m willing to commit for. I’ve got my eye on a flat 10k in early May, which is 9 weeks away (although the way my legs are feeling today I won’t be doing much running this week, so maybe 8 weeks training max). Does that sound like a reasonable time frame to get from 44 to sub-40 minutes, based on my progression so far? Or am I kidding myself? Any tips for the kind of training schedule I should be looking at? Most of the plans I’ve found online seem to involve 5-6 sessions per week e.g.
https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/g771663/three-10k-training-plans/?slide=4 so I guess that’s the level of commitment I’ll need? Would following a training programme like that mean I shouldn’t cycle as well during that time? I typically cycle to work (25 mile round trip) 2-3 times per week in spring and summer, but could put that off for a month to focus on the running.
Sorry, that’s a lot of information/questions! But it’d be great to hear the advice of more experienced runners. Just in case I’m being naïve in my ambition.
Thanks.
Comments
In a way how long it takes is kind of irrelevant. All that is in your control is training effectively and that will take you you as far as it does when you chose to run. You also mention a 5 miler in July. Why not commit to training consistently up to then and pick a 10km some time after that to have another go at a pb?
Whatever you do, IMHO, the best way is to try and run regularly and frequently. 5 or 6 times a week is ideal. 4 is better than 3. To be honest I'd only worry about specific types of run training after hitting the frequency goal. You can cycle by all means. Cycling has some cross over benefit to running. The only time to reconsider cycling is if it means you are doing less running because of the cycling. If you were overall too sore or cycling meant you didn't have time to run that is when you need to make a choice.
What I'd suggest is take some weeks to up the frequency. The idea is to find how many runs you can practically fit in. But in a way that isn't too taxing. You need to be able to do exactly the same the week after. No big effort run or big volume week is worth it if you miss runs after that. Once you have a handle on what a nice running week is for you then you can play with different sessions and see if those work or are too much. Obviously as you progress you can add a bit more at a time. But don't rush it.
That is what I mean by how long it takes is irrelevant. If you are training in the right way it takes as long as it takes. Which may or may not be in time for any arbitrary race. But try and enjoy the process. The real benefits come from learning what works for you and nudging that forward consistently while avoiding the setbacks that come from over use and over stretching. Right for you is right for you and you can't rush it.
What do you think? Too much too soon considering I've been doing 15-20k per week in the run up to my last 10k? I must admit, the thought of the 6 x 1M at 4 min/km session this week is already daunting, which makes me think getting to sub 40 in 8 weeks is ambitious. But as you say, all I can do it commit for the next 2 months, see what time I get in the May 10k and if I'm close to but not quite sub-40 I can find another race to aim for. If I'm still way off in May I'll probably leave it there, as I don't want it to take over my life for a prolonged period of time.
Having said that, you might feel it's worth the risk to give your plan a go. What's the worst that will happen, you'll get some niggles or an injury and have to take time off running.
Consistent and enjoyable training is very important here. I took some time to break the mark. In 2011 I ran 42:55 when targeting sub 45. I only broke 40 in 2015. I was injured for much of 2012, 41:47 in 2013, 40:49 in 2014 before a 39:49 the following year. Only raced a 10k twice a year.
For instance you are not going to break 40 if you cannot break 20 in a 5k. To be honest sub 19:30 5k translates at a stretch to sub 40 so a tarmac parkrun will provide a decent idea of where your fitness base currently is and then use McMillan Running to determine your training paces from that.
Keep the cycling up but keep it easy, save the legs for the training. My times improved with an 8 to 10 mile run once a week. Target a 5k once a month and attempt the 10ks as before. You will get there as I did. I am mid 40s so given your age and experience it is definitely doable so long as you keep the training enjoyable so you come back for more each week. That is where you get the consistency.
You have to pace yourself over those 8 weeks as much as you do on race day. But like a race you are better of building up to the right pace rather than starting flat out and blowing up.
Maybe update here to keep yourself honest. I'd be interested.
Thanks for everyone's encouragement and advice - much appreciated.
Week 0 Sunday 6.5 Easy
Week 1 Monday - Rest
Week 1 Tuesday 6.5 Easy
Week 1 Wednesday 6.5 Easy
Week 1 Thursday - Rest
Week 1 Friday 7.4 Easy
Week 1 Saturday 7 Easy
Week 1 Sunday 12 Long
Week 2 Monday - Rest
Week 2 Tuesday 5.7 Hills
Week 2 Wednesday 7.4 Easy
Week 2 Thursday 10.1 Easy
Week 2 Friday - Rest
Week 2 Saturday 6.5 Intervals
Week 2 Sunday - Rest
Week 3 Monday 7.4 Easy
Week 3 Tuesday 9 Easy
Week 3 Wednesday 6.2 Hills
Week 3 Thursday 8.3 Easy
Week 3 Friday 7.5 Intervals
Week 3 Saturday - Rest
Week 3 Sunday 14.6 Long
Week 4 Monday 6.2 Recovery
Week 4 Tuesday 6.5 Threshold
Week 4 Wednesday 6.4 Recovery
Week 4 Thursday 8.1 Easy
Week 4 Friday 6.9 Hills
Week 4 Saturday - Rest
Week 4 Sunday 13.1 Long
Week 5 Monday 5.2 Recovery
Week 5 Tuesday 8.3 Easy
Week 5 Wednesday 10 Easy
Week 5 Thursday 8.7 Easy
Week 5 Friday - Rest
Week 5 Saturday 5.1 Tempo
42.6 Average weekly km
So I'm up to 40-50 km per week now, but based on the two issue below, am wondering if I worked up to this too quickly. Maybe you have some advice.
1. I’ve been finding the long/recovery runs quite hard on my calves. I’m not sure if my form isn’t great when running slowly, meaning I’m using my calves more? The week after my last 10 km race in March my calves were in agony, I could barely walk the day after. It’s never happened before at that kind of distance. I thought it might be because my form had fallen off in the latter part of the race. Or maybe it was because my training runs hadn’t covered enough long distances by that point, so I was lacking strength/stamina. But still, over recent weeks my legs definitely feel more comfortable at 4:50-5:10 min/km than 5:30-5:50 min/km. Should I stick with the slower pace for long/recovery runs and see if my form/calf strength improves, or up the pace a little to the point where I feel more comfortable?
2. I’ve been focussing on getting up to 40-50 km per week with easy/long runs. The only variation on this has been 1 or 2 runs a week where I’ve done some hill repeats or Fartlek-type intervals. I don’t think either would be considered a 'proper workout', but my legs haven’t felt up to an all-out effort yet (I know a few of you have suggested trying to do e.g. 5 km at target race pace each week). I tried a 5 km tempo run this morning (4:10 min/km) but had to break it into 2 x 2.5 km segments as my legs felt sore by the half-way point. I certainly don’t feel up to doing any of the workouts in the McMillan plan at the moment. Do you think this is because I moved up to 40-50 km per week too quickly? Or maybe my legs aren’t strong enough and I need to stick with the easy/long runs totalling 40-50 km per week for a bit longer? Or would it be better to build in a second rest day every week and see if I can manage at least one workout across the other 5 runs?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Long/recovery 5:25 per km
Easy 5:10 per km
Threshold 4:25 per km
Tempo 4:10 per km
4x800 metres at 2:45-3 minutes, 1 minute interval
until after 6 weeks
8x800 metres at 2:45 - 3 minutes, 1 minute interval
Important only to change one variable at a time - the number of reps, the length of the interval or the speed of the rep.
200 metres reps are not long enough.
Hope that helps
And only weekly
Dirk_Gently - Thanks for the intervals workout suggestion. This morning I managed 4 x 800 m at just under 3:00 min with 400 m (about 2:30 min) recoveries. It was tough but I was encouraged that I got through it. Last week I did a 6 km progression run starting at 5:00 min/km for the first km and increasing the pace by 10 sec/km each km up to 4:10 min/km in the final km. So I guess I am now incorporating one 'proper' workout per week.
Do you think another 8 weeks at 50-60 km per week with sessions as follows would put me in a good position to try for a sub-40 min 10k?
Sunday - long run
Monday - recovery
Tuesday - easy
Wednesday - easy
Thursday - workout
Friday - recovery
Saturday - rest
I could try to follow the workouts in the McMillan 8 week plan and see how I go.
When I'm ready to try an all-out 10k, what's the best way to taper considering I'm currently doing 50k over 6 sessions a week:
Sunday - easy long
Monday - easy short
Tuesday - easy medium
Wednesday - workout
Thursday - easy short
Friday - easy medium
Saturday - rest
Definitely try a parkrun when they restart, but when you do your target 10K remember that although you've done 100% training, you're only 90% of the way there as weather, health (colds) injuries(niggles) and the state of the race can have an impact.
I've bought some Brooks Ghost 12 shoes which feel a lot comfier than my old shoes, and I've noticed I'm shaving 5 seconds/km off my easy runs, without trying. So hopefully that will help a little bit towards my 10k goal!
The only question is should I go for a 10 km attempt next week or get a few more weeks of training in (maybe trying some of the later workouts from the McMillan plan: https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/the-best-10k-workout/). What do you think?
Bad luck with the bite, but interval sessions can be close to red lining it and the last thing you want is an injury.
Is this a GPS measured course or a race? Are there any?
Thanks to everyone for your advice, encouragement and reality checks - especially at the start, when I naively thought 8 weeks would be enough time! I suppose I better see how much time I can knock off my HM PB now! After some celebratory beers and a few days off