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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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It's always a fine line with tapers - not enough and go in a bit less fresh than you could, too much and you maybe feel a bit sluggish.
If you want to race a lot over a small period, you have to probably accept one of 2 things - that you'll lose mileage through recovery and mini taper, or the races won't all be top level.
SG - positive 6m tempo.
Reg - was that 25m @ 6:01 on a triathlon measured course....? Sorry, couldn't resist! That's a long chunk at race pace, but in terms of overall time (roughly 1/3 ? ) probably similar to doing 15km @ MP the week before a Marathon. It would be interesting to know what the science was behind it.
FWIW, I'll second TR on the +10% (steady in my parlance) runs. They are ideal for marathon training. A lot of the Kenyan runners do their weekly long run at about the same pace.
SG - super compensation. Renato Canova has his runners do what he terms 'special blocks'. For marathoners that could be something like
am: 2-4km wu, 8-10km @ 90% MP + 10-15km @ MP
pm: 2-4km wu, 8-10km @ 90% MP + 10 x 1km (or 6 x 1m) @ HMP.
From experience you need to leave lots of recovery to get the benefits.
Decent first week back so far. Fartlek instead of track yesterday was my only structured session - 4 sets of {6' fast, 1' jog, 1' fast, 1' jog}. The 6 fast were not particularly fast (95-100% MP ? ), and the 1s were only about HMP, but wind, grass course, and post-flu-jab-mehness would account for a lot of that (plus it's week 1 of 26 so who cares!).
Tapering for races? or peaking for races? There's a pattern involved. Over the years I've had a lot of fun with this part of training. Usually because it means doing less and getting more.
Quick update.
13 weeks weeks ago, I had major surgery. That's a spleen gone, half of my pancreas and the tumour perched upon it.
Leading up to that piece of fun I'd actually come to a peak of training. It's that purple bit on the strip below. Had eleven days off.
Until then, I'd averaged well over two hours per day. So, in a way, I had to start again. No matter. Without busting a gut, I've surpassed the level I was before surgery.
That, I didn't expect. I was prepared to become a shadow of before. A reasonable trade off against a guarantee of something terminal later on.
Latest efforts have returned:
Below are the metrics of a typical standard training session.
95% of my training is doing this.
And now and again I'll up the ante.
Just on the edge of oxygen debt during these efforts.
Just note the principles. It's basic stuff but I wouldn't think many would want to do it. I mean, I do most of this on a stationary bike due to the control required and that requires staring at the Garmin keeping tabs on the power output/HR/cadence.
It'd drive most people nuts. However, in my case, it's already too late 😉
🙂
a 26 week plan? That's a long haul. I am planning on 18 weeks to London so I guess 6 weeks to build a base of around 50 mpw. I've no idea what that plan will look like but what I did last year seemed to work quite well, so that with more long runs.
26 weeks, but only 10 weeks marathon focused. Other than the 13 weeks for Manchester earlier in the year I've not put together a decent block of training in years so need to put in a decent foundation ahead of those 10 weeks at the end.
Someone suggested Zwift but racing against others head-to-head didn't appeal so I think a Time Trial is about as far as I'd go. However, to do that I'd have to join a club, get a TT bike and before I know it, I'll be taking up Cyclo-Cross. Could be a laugh. I'd be 62 years old.
🙂
SG - Those double run sessions would be madness for forty (or fifty) somethings like us on here, with families, work etc
There was a period early on in this thread I'd do my sessions Tue & Thur, but it became Tue & Fri more regularly, and that seemed a better mix of recovery wise, usually then with the Thursday off.
These days I pretty much keep to the structure, but prefer to have the Saturday off and run a double easy Thursday instead.
I still put a lot in now, but looking back there was some real commitment in there!
I remember bailing on a pal's wedding early as I needed a Saturday double, sneaking in a track session before a Friday night date, and doing 14milers before 200mile drives up north
I certainly do not miss Friday night track sessions, Especially in winter!
That feeling leaving work, knowing you had the much harder work to come
Apart from the ad hoc Strava Segment chase, a couple of sessions which get an airing are below.
This one is a 40/20 second on/off job. Pure anaerobic fare isn't my area as Garmin keeps telling me. I just can't generate enough sheer power. It'll have to do.
The session below is more strength endurance.
I did this a few hours ago. Biggest problem was drowning in sweat in the final five minutes. I need a bigger fan.
If only my running training had had the same data available. Would have saved a lot of time and mistakes.
🙂
🙂
Rick - as you're on the bike you can do regular sessions (no impact) but im assuming theres either multiple sessions a day, or lots of steady volume boosting the daily training time.
Getting back to more or less full volume here, although i still dont feel fit enough to ga faster than steady. 22m inc 12m steady yday, to complete a 70something week, followed by CV booster in the afternoon.
🙂
I went to Junior parkrun Sunday morning with both girls this time, eldest took a whole minute off her PB from the previous week. Youngest showed some real determination too. It's actually a fun way to get some family time in and a warm up for my run.
I ran over to the Reading TVXC to spectate and do some of the course myself beforehand. I even joined in a few times, whilst trying not to confuse anyone! Gave SG a few shouts but didn't see him after. Our guest, ladies national XC champ was there again, again she beat all the fellas. I had a good chat with her afterwards, we should really have got her registered, especially as our second lady was the first scorer. It did whet the appetite but I am definitely a fair few weeks away from being competitive.
Looks like TR and Reg starting to get there now, hopefully that continues!
Down to see the folks on the weekend, so 4 Coombes' did the Poole Parkrun - me, the kid, missus and brother. My race went quite well - settled in around 3.20's - hoping that would feel ok. Only thing that happened was going from 3rd to 4th after a K, but stayed in that position and kept the pace spot on - finished in 16.40, quite happy with that. The kid was a bit tearful after as he thought he was over 20 mins - when he was going for 19.30 ish. But he ended up with 19.56. Missus and brother both did 25.xx.
Round Sandbanks and along to Bmth Pier and home for a heavy 11.5 miles yesterday morning.
I have entered the LFOTM this month (25/11) if anyone else fancies it. I think @alehouse might try to get down. You might get to meet the HHH/Dulwich old men's drinking club after!
Did wonder what the heck was going on seeing you in some of the race photos after, massive blue jelking glove on the go.
SC nice race, but i'm amazed you guys still use that mad "no phones" pub. Where it was about £10 a pint about 5 years ago
We needs a race report.
As it's race 2 out of 8, that might be an optimistic ambition though.
It'd been peeing down all week, and I woke up to heavy rain, and a bleak outlook outside.
However, a lovely 30min drive later, with only some tomfoolery that the main carpark at Waingels (?) College was still locked up at 9.50, with an 11am race start, with a posse of the befuddled Reading lot ushering people to a previously unused School carpark, a similar distance from the park. Brilliant.
A dodgy parking spot for me. Every car alongside me could afford to go right up to a fence, but because of a bunch of pee wee wooden benches indenting wildly beyond it, I had to leave my car well off the gate. Probably looking like a right dodgy park. In fairness it is a school's playground, not a proper car park.
Anyway, half a mile walking to the park, usual feelings of knowing this'll be a slog.
Even though it's probably one of the easiest 2 courses in the league.
I've had a real mixed bag here. One superb run where a last mile mad burst saw me monster all sorts of local faces. But a bit ill last year, taking one for the team, and then coming 7th as some bum turned up without any warning!
Plus one time a couple of months after vertigo had utterly wiped me out.
So 2nd best turnout here was well within sight!
My range within the team could potentially be anywhere from 3rd to 7th, but I'd spent the days before managing expectations
Arrived at the park to find the grass fairly mudless, and the rain and cold was replaced with a bizarre sort of warm humidity that late October shouldn't be a part of.
Saw Dachs pop over from his local residence, but he wasn't racing. Just putting in some menacing strides to intimidate us as a rival from Reading, who would clearly win out on their home patch.
I dare say my 9 or so min mile warm up mile not feeling that amazing didn't make anyone think anything bar chuckles.
I remembered the slightly too far back start of last year, getting caught up in the little 0.3mile loop at the start, so was right on the wide start line in between some trees.
We're off, and it feels a decent start, trying not to trip a few times, but people go off absolutely insanely at this one for some reason. I assume it's because it's a fairly featureless course, and they treat it more like a road race.
I'm off ok, and 6.06 first mile is up, which is decent for me offroad. I actually once averaged that for a longer race here, but must have been superb conditions, mint shape, and madly up for it I can only imagine!
One of our guys is past me not long after, despite playing down his recent 2 weeks of little running, hating XC and often dropping off a cliff at these.
He's not the one I thought would come past, but it's important to keep the faith in 2 lappers, especially this one. People go wild, then come back hard.
There's a couple of minor ups and downs on grassy mounds, bits and pieces of wind here and there, and you do forget where abouts you are in relation to the woods and start at times.
But you do come within a stonesthrow of the start about 1.5miles or so in.
Another of our guys has come past me by now, and I am wondering if I'll see either again, and what might be happening behind. Keep the faith.
Into the woody bit, and some woman is filming it. I assume it'll be dreadful quality, but watching it back it's decent, and I can in hindsight see I'm in 40th place near the end of lap 1.
The woods are about half a mile or so, slight down into them, across a muddy crossing, about turn, then slight climb back up and out.
Up a slight grassy bank, then thunder onto lap 2.
From here on in it all starts to fall into place, despite me not actually stepping up in pace at all.
I'm past the initial clubmate passer by 3miles, and I can tell he's right out of the game from this point on.
It's ridiculous how close I am to another team mate here.
I decide the woods will let me know the answer!
Past a couple on the in and out, and then on the incline probably past another 3 or 4, and then I pop up on my mate's shoulder, say hello, and that temporarily lifts him.
Out of the woods, round a steep but short grassy bend, and a Maidy guy utterly shatters himself to the peak. But then drops to billyo straight after. As if he'd thought that was the end, not realising there's another 300m to go.
I spot Foster, and realise I can't cruise in behind 2 people with him watching, so get past my mate, get past an old Wargrave mate, and into the finish.
24th overall, but a better race than Metros (22nd) with the overall quality of field.
Over 100 more here than at that one too.
16 overtakes, fairly continuous over the last lap was also a crazy contrast to the Metros one too, as that was literally 90% solo, then suddenly 3 together showed up and past them in 200m.
Is going past 16 on the 2nd lap great tactics, or should I have been ahead of xx many of them earlier? Always hard to tell, but I think some really leather themselves here on the first lap probably due to the lack of features and shortest course, and I don't wanna be one of those
As expected Reading cruised the overall win, but competing against a City club 4 times the size can always go that way, especially on their home turf!
We banked 2nd which we'll take.
These come in fortnightly spells now, but I have a few other road plans instead to take us through to December.
Will "probably" do another 1 or 2, but let's let this one settle first!
Simon - sounds like a good family occasion on the coast
SG - that lush green grass makes it look like far too good conditions for XC, wait til the knee deep mud in February.
Sounds like a quality performance SG - if you didn't get held up at all then your more evenly paced race is clearly the way to go. Some XC courses have narrow sections or pinch points when it's worth haring off early doors to avoid getting stuck.
Recovery week involved a lovely few days away travelling up through Wales: Elan Valley, Aberystwyth & Pwllheli.
Ran Hafan Pwllheli parkrun on Saturday which is an out & back along the beach. Pissing down until 5 minutes before the start & blowing a hooley. 12:25 to halfway then 10:49 back to the finish! You can guess which way the wind was blowing
Back down to Bristol for a reggae night Saturday so another 6 hrs dancing but still managed a dozen Sunday morning.
Another 11M tonight in the pissin rain
SG - well run. I notice the course was about 1km shorter this year than the last time I done it (2019). I was disappointed to miss it, but glad I wasn't missed. I agree that in theory we can put out a strong team if we got everybody out, but don't forget that there is also Reading AC who are more of a pull for a lot of more 'serious' runners.
SC - sounds like a good family parkrunning day.
TR - that course is usually ankle deep in water by the time xc comes around. Looks like normal service will be resumed by the next one in a couple of weeks!
75 last week. Started off this one with a surge run yesterday. Surges of 1,3,1,7,1,5 minutes with alternating 3 and 4 mins moderate between (idea is to get used to recovering from efforts at 'not a jog' and eventually increase recovery pace). Wet and windy, but hit the 1s at 5:13, 5:12, 5:02, 3 @ 5:37, 7 @ 5:57, and the last 5 into a headwind and heaviest rain @ 5:44. Recoveries averaged 7:18, and another few miles either side (again moderate) gave me 12.6 in total. I love these runs.
Much prefer this one funnily enough! Odd how much difference half a mile can make to a course!
We definitely got away with it conditions wise this time, the one beauty of October starts.
Looks like you're right in the thick of things again.
Spot on Jools, there's definitely some of those pinch points on some of our course, and unlike yesterday, if you've lost 100m or more on someone, they're gone at other events.
Another epic set of places and efforts there Jools
So settled for 10x400 off 90secs, park and road, with a few strides after.
Pretty rainy and windy for the first half, then settled. Then 20mins after I got in, huge downpour!
All sort of 1.21-1.25 sort of mixer, so enough for a turnover. Did what it needed to, as haven't done any sort of reps for a good 5-6 weeks now probably - all races or tempos.
Good socialising and running Jools - what it's all about!
TT- Very good training.
tempo ish 10k last night, bit of a Monday night ritual. Bit dangerous as it was in the pissing rain and had to dodge the trick or treaters..half went over on my right ankle again. Did it in just over 40 mins.
Realised I have got a race every weekend until Christmas now, starting with Mansfield English xc relays on Saturday, then Dublin, Eastern Masters, LFOTM (OK not technically Weekend!), Chiltern league (guest), Southern masters Oxford, South of Thames Senior at Aldershot on Dec17th. Bedford & Co fun handicap race the day after.
Oh yeah going to the Irish Cup final the day after the international race too. Derry v Shelborne, Aviva stadium. Only 20 Euros.
It was 8 x 1k off 80secs - I think it was 3.16,3.15,3.14,3.14, 3.15,3.12,3.11,3.06.
Luckily the weather had cleared by the time we started.
Stag Trophy with LBAC tonight, 3 lap 4k blast. Hopefully the rain stays off.
Seems a long time since your last reps, SG. But it soon clocks up with a few races in a row. Got to love the variety of running. The XC photo looks gold course pristine!
Like the sounds of that session, TT. Any reasoning behind the unobvious range of time intervals? Cracking paces either way!
Six hours of dancing is epic, Jools. Oh, and all the running adventures 😊. I lived in Bristol for a year and think it is a great place. Would you ever move from the Forest?
Reg - completely agreed re junior parkrun being some fun family time. My daughter took a few seconds off her PB last Sunday. A lot more to come off if she actually ran the whole thing without a few stops. My three year old son, however, won’t get out the buggy. A boy who requires some serious motivation to move his arse!
I’m in recovery/piggy mode here ten days post goal marathon. Plenty of easy running, made progressively hard by the weight gain and first booze since September 4th. Still, all part of the ying and yang.
Cross country this Saturday - first of the Glos XC series: Cirencester Deer Park. Is Jools in?
Also have a longer term goal having entered the Dartmoor Discovery Dartmoor Discovery. This will be a 32M hilly road epic a few weeks before my 40th next summer. Have persuaded my ever speedier mate to join. It looks right up my street with views, hills, quiet roads, nature. Not dissimilar to some aspects of Snowdonia. Come on SG thread, let’s all enter; if that 13M descent to begin doesn’t persuade you, what will?!
Good luck at XC SQ. I'm not there as it clashes with Sugar Loaf fell race which I've entered already.
Nice looking 50K the DD. Tempted to join in but I'll leave off entering for a bit.
Hilly 16M tonight in the wind & rain. Easy pace throughout but still tired by the end.