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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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PeteM - Very neat bling area! I'm doing LFOTM on Friday 24th Nov if you fancy it? Good xc too
Jools- cheers. Hopefully won't have to kill myself to get the pot.
Richmond Pk Surrey league Div1 tomorrow. Probably the best quality club xc race in the country, so top 70 if I have a good one. Should be ok for Dragonflys.
Top collection of prizes Pete, add in all the vouchers and cash prizes and its a big stash.
Reg - you defo should become a stunt man
I had to ease off again as my knee is still not right. Hopefully it's a tempoaray injury and not age catching up with me. Trying to hit the s and c and icing etc and ease back the running for a while.
One minute the weather was fine, then on arrival it had turned into a blimming monsoon.
This made the warm up and drills a real half hearted job!
A Handy cross pal was there to keep me honest, but the conditions were always going to be a beast.
The 8x400m was thankfully low volume, but with the quirk of each lap has to be the same time, but you move across a lane each rep. The recovery being the same time as the rep.
A sensible 1.24 lap was utterly blown out the window by a foolish 1.17 second lap, meaning the mission was never going to be achieved.
With heavy rain and at 200m a real windy section made it even sillier. We were running clockwise too which felt odd.
My pal did 5 reps then disappeared, leaving me relatively solo for 3. A slow 1.28 6th lap showed i'd eased a bit, but 1.26 for the last 2 was a decent finish.
I dare say 1.24 was probably close to an ideal start in the conditions, and knowing lap 8 was 57metres further, but in the weather everyone was pleased it was done and we could disappear, drenched.
Thankful that it wasn't last week's much longer session, that had 2 separate 5min recoveries!
Would normally consider Friday v Sunday turnaround utterly lunacy, but from the lighter volume and weather taking the top edge off, plus the low key pressure free nature of the turn out, I think it's worthwhile.
Have averaged 61miles over the last 8 weeks, so a lower mile week with 3 efforts as a change is probably a reasonable trade off.
There's a 10k on as well, but having wanted to do Friday's track session, I thought an evening session and quick turnover to a MT 10k didn't scream genius.
Both are fairly low key races, but a charming little village nearby to my old stomping ground Marlow made for a nice little trip.
I'd only once raced at Frieth, about 15 years ago! I remember bits of it well, 39.50 for 4th place that earned me a bandana in the pots after, by virtue of a V40 in the front 3, and giving him that rather than straight top 3.
15min drive, enter on day available, nice.
Aimed to jog the route first, but aborted about 3/4 mile in having gone the wrong way for the at the time unmarked woody bit!
Took the decision for safety to run back the way I was certain, rather than bodge around trying to find the right way in
The 5k and 10k start at the same time, but peculiarly about 100metres apart, with the 5k behind the 10k.
It smacked of we're going to storm into the back of their field, with just a sheepish "back markers keep to the right" from the marshals to them.
Both races are fairly humble fields and the 5k from a simple glance looked like 3 of us in the mix.
One a young AC type kid (we've been here before with a 5k haven't we
Bit of chat and a few disclaimers and the kid seemed to be suggesting his current 5k was similar to mine this year, though I was too busy giving disclaimers to take it in fully,
Something I suddenly realised in the woods on the warmup, and was slightly concerned I'd not picked it up! But no worries...old school timing.
And we're off. Doesn't feel particularly fast but the other 2 are a yard ahead, so I sit just behind.
We're looking at the 10k mob ahead, but after all that build up, they turn right before we get to them anyway!
A much bigger concern is when we turn down a really narrow country lane and some genius in a MASSIVE van is storming the other way
He thankfully stops and we just about single file creep past him against the hedge
The marshal stood about 30metres further on probably could have asked him to stop before that section, knowing that the whole field would probably be through in literally 2mins! But oh well.
Left hand turn into a big field, gently sweeping down.
I've got the Alphas on and aware not to over do it here.
I put a little burst of energy in to see what we're looking at, and the kid matches it.
The entry into the woods is tight and a sharp turn left.
A really ramp down pace and get the footing right first bit, then avoid tree roots branches etc.
The kid is quite nimble here and gets a few metres ahead.
I'm ahead of 3rd.
Then the 1k marker is up.
Long story longer - there was about half a mile in the woods, narrow gullies with very slightly muddy bits, but nothing that made Alphas sound foolish.
By about 1.2miles you're onto road now, and it's nice and smooth and back comfortably to sub 6 pace.
I can see the kid ahead, and can feel the guy behind is probably similar behind.
I can feel it'd take a big effort to catch 1st, but it'll take the same big effort from 3rd to catch me, and think he's a 18xx guy.
The stinger at this course is the last 1/3mile or so climbs about 50 feet or so.
Especially killing in the 10k, as that race has the brutal wood climbs midway, whereas the 5k avoids all that nonsense.
However, you still feel it kick in a bit, and a close race here would be a nightmare.
In the end it's a comfy margin 1st to 2nd to 3rd and don't need to smash myself to finish.
18.39 for me.
19 secs to the kid, 21secs back to 3rd.
One of those races where you're to be honest happy to settle for the position you're in early on!
I've had a few of that feeling this year, Misbourne 10k for 1st V40, Bradenham 5k 2nd, Marlow 10k 3rd.
On PO10 I look quicker than both the 5k winner and 2nd and 3rd in the 10k (didn't look the winner up). But always loads of other factors at play of relative strength of the runner, form, motivation, course knowledge etc.
The 5k winner, perhaps 17/18 has a best parkrun time this year of 18.08, yet has (presuming today was full distance and the GPS didn't like the turns and woods bits hence measuring slightly under), done 18:20 today, on a course with 2 separate 90-100 feet climbs!
But anyway, happy for a first turn out for a month - the weeks can quickly go by.
Shame nothing for 2nd at all, some little momento would have been nice. But it is a race for school funds, with a 10k on too, so not too worried
No photos for the 5k, unfortunately only the 10k gets that joy.
But it did what it needed to on the tin, local turnout to get back into racing, and not having to compromise on no Friday session.
56.5mile week with 2 sessions and a race. I won't make a habit of going "threemium"
Oh they both went really well.
Waste of f**king 20 mins.
Surrey League Cross-Country
Love Luton Run Fest - 5k, 10k & Half Marathon (eventchiptiming.com)
SC - good weekend's work there. Well done. Decent prize?
SG - I'm with Jooligan; I'd have expected some improvement from tempos 1-4. If I do the 10m tempos during base I'll expect to see 5-10 minutes of an improvement across the phase. I'd be interested to see what would happen if you extended them to 10m for 4 or 5 weeks.
Good turnout at Frieth.
Reg - any more broken body parts?
Pete - looks like some good turnouts there from you. I'm torn on doing xc this year. If we got everybody to turn out we'd be very competitive, but a lot (me included) tend to do their own things. Right now I think I'll be better served with a 10m tempo on Monday, instead of a 5-6m xc race the day before, but will revisit that after I've got a few weeks under my belt, so might see you at some.
Not much to report here. Been busy and was then away, so had some time completely off (aside from coast path walking). Need to get back in a rhythm now.
Luton training last night , 8 x 1k off about 1.40/1.50. First 3.20 then mainly 3.12's. Last one 3.07. Legs not too bad after the weekend.
6.17
Over the years, these have always been to a zone, and don't necessarily increase week to week, unless you purposely are trying to add faster sections.
The only time I remember them doing so, was a year or 2 ago, when I'd started with a 6.30 week, then it came back to the natural level over the next 2 weeks.
Cooler today, but windier, as a trade off to the last 2 weeks of a bit warm and bit humid.
6.14 out, 6.06 last mile in. Mile 3 slowest as per last week.
Hard to explain zone for some, as it's by no means comfortable, but it's by no means rinsing yourself, but you'd have to force yourself to go too much quicker.
Vaguely HMP + 15-20seconds.
I'll allow myself it being 3 days after a race this week, albeit a short one.
Probably a sensible assessment is "fit", but need to top this up for better racing.
I couldn't do 10miles at this pace, i'd probably have to start say 6.45 or so, then maybe that settled 6.30 or so a couple of weeks in. But that'd be more the "steady" zone, one down from this zone.
Most I ever did was 8, and that was probably after a few months of building with today's effort zone, then adding in pieces of HMP 5min blocks, and even Threshold (10m pace), 3min blocks.
I'll try and push a few little blocks in next time and see how it goes.
Good HM turnout.
And thanks for those vouchers again, filled my boots with gels at the Frieth 10k Runners Retreat stand
SG - I think the point is that the pace for that particular zone would increase as you get fitter. So for the same effort or 'zone', you'll end up running 6:00 after 5 weeks, for example. Surely what you're doing is running to a set pace or if you are running to a zone, you're not improving?
I've always fancied doing Frieth Hilly but never have done. I do like it round there.
TT - the benefit of tearing two different muscles in two days is you really limit the exercise available to you so it becomes quite difficult to injure anything new :-)
Actually my wife was away for four days so being injured and stuck babysitting dovetailed quite nicely. So nothing much done lately. I am back walking at normal speed but not quite ready for running. Did 30 minutes on the bike this morning and some gym stuff on Monday but hopefully will be running within a week from now.
For now it's some solid training and I can't ever remember finishing one of these sort of tempos without a mix of satisfaction and being glad it's done.
With the Friday track sessions adding a nice mix of social, and utterly unique combinations of reps and splits I've never seen in 20 years, which certainly keeps it fresh.
(Friday's for instance is 800m 5k pace, then two sets of 4x400m off 75secs/3mins in between sets.
With a quirk of each 400m starts at mile pace, but then finishes "hard" from 250m, 200m, 150m and 100m. Positively bonkers)
Whether all this body of work will see me get back to even last year's heights is anyone's guess, but I suppose the enjoyment has to be high too.
All those zones get a bit complicated for me tbh. Good to keep the track interesting though.
After the session, just easy running until the Southern xc relays at Wormwood Scrubs on Saturday. Which could be a little soggy going on the forecasts.
Funny Facebook post by Moraghan about doing squats and splitting his shorts!
Weekend debrief please, Jools.
Oh no, TR. Sorry to hear this. Sounds like Abo a no go? Was keen for miles on the road with you and a beer in the bar.
Satisfyingly odd track session, SG. And good to get a hit out. Alphaflys on mixed terrain sounds a risk but one that obviously worked out. Reasonably confident your tempo pace today was some deliberate trolling of the thread 😆.
Was looking forward to the reports, SC! Good going on both accounts by the brief sounds of things. Absolute madness to get back into k reps on the Tuesday after that weekend! But what do I know.
I’m sad enough to write in Notes and then copy across to RW. Hate having to scroll to read and then write repeatedly.
Taper week before Abingdon this coming Sunday. Forecast has varied as usual, goodness why I even bother looking before a couple of days out. Mind you, wouldn’t complain with the current offering.
Saturday was final longish with a solid parkrun. 11M total and 20:20 for parkrun - muddy (and long grass) after the heavy rain made things tough going. Fortunately most looked a little slower than usual.
Easy running Sunday - Tuesday with some strides on Monday.
Final mini-workout this afternoon: 2M at marathon effort (6:48s) then 4 x 20s strides (5:46 average). MP maybe a little hard but always tough to gauge. As per usual taper week, legs feel filthy!
Doesn’t seem to have adversely affected your K rep paces either - presume you were in the cheat shoes for Luton 😜
Decent turnout SG & the usual epic report, though I felt you skimped on the details re moving from 3rd to 2nd 😆
Best of luck SQ You’re well trained & experienced enough to get the best out of yourself on the day so looking forward to the report.
On that note: here’s my ha’porth.
I’ve been building the mileage for 7 weeks now, including some faster reps once or twice a week to complement my regular parkrun turnout, so I was optimistic heading into the weekend.
Met up with 3 club mates up at the track at 7:10 for the 85 minute drive to Nant-y-Moel. Arrived with time for a mile warm-up having stopped at a services en route. Legs felt ok but the course wasn’t exactly flat nor totally free-flowing.
We carry on to Llanelli for breakfast & coffee before arriving at Pembrey for the XC. Best turnout we’ve had here: 9 men, top 5 to count. I could be anywhere from 5th to 7th but suspect I won’t be a scorer for the A team. We jog a lap to check course conditions - dry as a bone despite Friday’s drenching 😀 Expected the lap to be about 3K as they’d changed it & people were saying we were doing 3 laps. It was almost 3M but we were doing the usual 2 laps. They’d taken out a large flat grassy loop & replaced it with a twisty trail section through the woods including a few short lumps. It’s a great course though with several short climbs including one sand dune.
Headed off conservatively & was back in 7th FoDAC straight away. Comedy gold as one of our guys lost his watch in the mad charge off the start & turned to retrieve it! He got it & still managed to storm back past me before we were a K in!
K Splits of 4:25/4:25/4:35/4:28/4:37/4:34/4:37/4:31/4:52 tell the tale. Although I probably overtook loads more people after the first K than came past me despite slowing. The final K included the 2nd climb of the dune which finished me off just like at the parkrun earlier.
I ended up 6th for the club in 298th of 442. Hopefully I’ll get quicker as the season progresses.
Plus that last climb was 90feet not 50, certainly more than I'd expected, but all good when no-one that close).
All the best for the big one SQ.
Jools good pair. Was trying to work out why you were taking so many splits for a 5k there. I know some people love km splits for mile races. But that many splits in a 5k?
Love your enthusiasm to do xc for one, but as the second of a pair of efforts too.
Masters relays in Nottingham next month. But not sure we've got a v35-45 team and not sure a 5hour round trip to run 3miles is one for me right now.
Went out a bit further than my customary, to go up a different hill.
Found one that went up to a road a school was on - at one point some kid casually started running on front of me at a faster pace, then stopped, so I joked that he was "making me look bad"
before continuing the trudge up a trailly hill, that met up with where my standard run eventually picks up.
Later a bit of a trudge through a wood and carefully down some steps and through a dark underpass etc.
Glad that's it for the day!
SQ - Started the reps, just thought i'd monitor how they felt as I went. The old Tak8's still have a decent amount of Lightstrike in them. So Jools, 'sort' of super shoes, it's a good thing that they are still way better than the ones I used to use, even being about 3 years old! XC course sounded interesting, ours was a 800m path up to the course then two laps and back down the path to the finish. The course, being Richmond Pk, was dry, so the Dragonfly's were perfect. Its a petrie dish course, rises up a bit both ends.
Masters xc relays SG? Never done those, think we'll be sticking to the Southern masters xc in Oxford and the road relays in Leicestershire somewhere on Nov 19th. I have entered the masters 5k at Battersea Pk on 3rd December also...fancy it? You'll get dragged round to a fast time!
Just a few laps around the St Pancras Pk this morning, it's about 400m round, been resurfaced too which is nice!
Probably similar sentimonies though...bit too far and bit too much hanging about this time of year.
Will look at the other one.
SG It was a local middle distance specialist mentioned taking 500m splits in a 5K. Makes sense as you get feedback sooner so can adjust before too much damage has been done if you’ve gone off too hard or push harder if you’re being too conservative. Track racing you get lap splits every 400m after all.
Since racing Saturday I did a 17 miler round Bristol Sunday then 3 hrs dancing that night. Monday off, Tuesday 4M w 6x400 on/off + 6M, Wednesday 5K & 15K. Today was 4M progressive on the track. Training is continuing to improve my aerobic efficiency although pure speed is still way down. Best I could manage Tuesday was a pair of 91s laps to finish.
References to plateaus and hoped for improvements had me dig this saved screenshot out. It's an example of an athlete (cycling mainly) who having established a base (900 hours/365 days) mainly at low intensities, ramped up the power for 20 minutes on the second session of the day.
Elite athletes generally keep their data out of the public sphere. This one does and doesn't depending on what's going on.
Clearly, the adaptions to this loading can work somewhat faster than most think possible. But then again, it depends on who it is? and what their potential is?
🙂
Jools - yeah not sure why I thought you meant training
SG - Yes I think i'm doing the road relays. for the BP 5k Masters race, 198/250 places gone, so will probably go quick.
I remember when my garmin was like many people's with the race predictor, hilariously too optimistic.
So right now I'm slighly worried, as I'm pretty much bang on the 5k/10k and slightly ahead of the HM. Heck.
At least the marathon is still scandously aheda of what I'd do.. at 2.49
Slightly colded up but will have a no pressure romp around at the track later.
Couple of laps 5k ish, then 8 x1 lap in 2 sets should be ok
As long as it's not the monsoon of last week, that was seriously silly.
🙂
I had a chat with him at Bob Parker's funeral. I mentioned seeing him on the telly racing against Brendan Foster, Bernie Ford and other luminaries of the day. I don't remember seeing Bedford there. I think he was already compromised by injuries. Only 22 years old as well. Could have been the mega mileages behind that. Such as 6 weeks' average 188 miles, one week 140 miles and one of 100 miles, prior to the 1971 National XC.
By contrast. Your coach was managing to get by on doing about 30 miles/wk. He did more mileage later on, which helped racing longevity. Long enough to run away from me in a Chiltern League XC race somewhere. Incredible leg speed I recall. Him, not me.
🙂
I noted that Simon mentioned the Nike Dragonfly XC for his last race. Not sure if he's wearing the original multi-coloured jobs, but this is the version I've been training in.
Must admit. They are well worth the money. The cone based spikes which come with them for softer conditions are a great idea.
To clear up any confusion concerning my previous posts, here's the session which gave me the VO2 Max of 83.0
Yes. It was me all along. 😉
I'll also be 63 years old by years end.
🙂
It must be a really nice feeling to know you've the same levels as current olympians. A really nice feeling indeed, and they'd best watch out at that cross country coming soon, especially in those shoes, could be a really unfair combination to unleash on people