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Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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    TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    SG - I think both approaches have their place. If I'm doing a run where it's about the effort and I'm not bothered by the pace I'll just do one of my usual road loops and double back on myself or detour down another road to get the distance I need, but if it's something where I want a smooth even effort then I'll get on the track (including for 5-10km time-trials/tempos). Even at that though I'd never be quicker in a TT or tempo than in a race; I never get how people can manage that.

    SC - sounds positive. Certainly can't be too bad with those rep times :)
    How are you finding the Propel v4? I've still got a pair of v3' in play. Also picked up a Decathlon trainer for £40 that feels similar to the Propel, so that'll be interesting as a comparison.

    Reg - are you going to do similar to brick workouts and start practicing 1km reps around pushing the sled? Nice progression. Sounds like you're in a decent place.

    Easy 10m Tuesday lunchtime, with 4m pm as easy out, brisk back. 11m yesterday lunchtime with 6 x {1/4m @ 5km-10km effort, 3/4m brisk} - averaged 5:40/6:58. 4m in the evening same as Tuesday pm. Wearing shorts for yesterday's efforts was a bad idea.
    Hopefully something similar to Tuesday today.
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    SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    I’m also definitely in the camp of getting nowhere near race pace during training. 

    Very good paces in an 11M, TT. Can’t have been many wearing shorts yesterday.

    £25 for good mileage shoes is an absolute bargain, SG. Do you get unlimited half price all year?

    A royal flush progression ruined at the end, Reg 😂. 


    Got out for a 3M recovery run on Tuesday afternoon - felt good to flush the legs a little after the morning’s session. Then 15 minutes weights.

    The plan had an hour easy yesterday, which turned into 8M along the canal at 8:16 pace. Then this morning was all about survival lol. -6C as I am sure it was for many of you. Plan called for a gentle progression which was probably quite a suitable way of approaching such conditions. Went from 8:30 pace down to 7:20s over the course of 10k. Fleece-lined buff and thicker gloves were great, although could have done with a third sock. 

    Have a flat and fast 5M road race in the calendar for Sunday, but don’t feel ready for it yet. So will keep it to tempo in amongst a long run.  

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    Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18
    SC, 50% refunded up to a yearly max of £500.
    About 10 categories of health and wellbeing apply, but for me it'll be sports equipment, kit, clubs and races! Will hoover that up nicely once working out what club(s) and races I'm doing.

    No word in it being more than a one year trial but brilliant even if it just for that.

    Actually used quidco for sportsshoes to get 3% cashback for the wave riders! Should work for that money saving geezer 🤣
    Can recommend it for anyone who's never used these cashback sites. Got something insane like £24 cashback from Vaporflys a couple of years ago. Have to wait for ages for it to come through but worth it just for going through a different site for seconds first.
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    TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    SQ - ta, the average pace was better than expected, but mainly because it was skewed by one primarily downhill rep. I'd take that as current 5km pace, even if it means that current 5km is slower than marathon pb pace, but I've got to start somewhere, right? 
    Sounds like a sensible approach to the 5m.

    SG - Good shout. I keep meaning to sort out cashback. I've even got my browser set up to highlight sites that do it, but haven't gotten around to actually signing up yet. I'll do that today.

    The hoped for easy double ended up as just a very easy 6m in the end due to a busy day. If I hit what I hope today and tomorrow I'll still be in the ballpark of last week's volume, but with a little more effort this week.
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    SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    TT - Still like them, although the V2's were my favourite version so far. The V4's are a little bit heavier, and I cannot run with them in the wet - seem to soak up the water.

    SQ - Good luck for the race Sunday

    SG - Impressive bargain hunting. I'm ok for a bit now with brand new Tak8's and VF.

    20 x 300 with 100m jog walk last night. Back a little tight, knee fine. 54's for the first half, then mainly 52's with 50-48 for the last three. Glad to have the Dragonfly on with the track a bit frosty

    5 miler this morning around Islington.

    Going to do Parkrun tomorrow then we're driving to London to watch the cross country event at Parly Hill.
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    Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20
    Track was so cold last night, I wore the tights in the presence of people for the first time :D 

    4x (3mins, 2mins, 1mins) with 45secs floats in between, then 3min static recovery after a set.

    The coach said the AC club tend to aim sub 6 for the efforts and 6.15-20 for the floats. Doesn't sound "that" hard for 7.5min blocks, when I used to do similar for 40-45mins under Moz training for continuous tempos!  

    But in that cold, in a group, we aimed to be sub 6 for the efforts and flat around 645ish. and the way we probably ramped up a bit in the 2min and 1min, instead of same pace throughout, felt a decent workout.
    Looking at the graph you can see the increase in pace for 2s and 1s, and rep 3 started sharper than the previous 2.

    2 new younguns up with us, albeit one joined half way through, having been chatting in another group earlier, and 1 guy starting the reps with us and then faltering a bit in the 2min bits.

    One of those sessions where you don't have "exact" feedback from splits, but it "felt" a solid effort.

    Saw a couple from track then do their long runs this morning.
    If they also race the XC on the Hilly Handy Cross course tomorrow that's an outrageous treble up :D 
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    Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21
    14.5 for me today. Up to Holtspur, Beaconsfield, Penn, Hazlemere, then 300 feet down hiller.
    7.27 pace. Reasonable. Have done this sort of route 20seconds or more quicker in the past but must have been in some pretty darn decent shape. Although always hard to compare memory to effort levels.

    66mile week which looking back is the highest since last Jan. Albeit only half a mile higher than last week.
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    Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Sounds like a pair of decent back to back weeks there TT. Shorts was brave, especially as your shorts tend to be of the shorter variety if I remember rightly. I do plan to do more of those brick sessions but will probably remain focused on strength for another month or so as that's currently my weakest link.

    Hope the race went well SQ. Interesting on the socks, I have never felt the need for anything but one pair of normal socks. Whilst I can get cold hands I think the fact my feet are constantly in use keeps them warm. Cycling however I can't get enough pairs of socks on!

    Nice set of 300s SC.

    SG in tights, are you wearing a hat/beanie yet or is that the next concession to the elements? I am well and truly into old man rights now. I will wear whatever makes me most comfortable. I even did parkrun on the weekend in tights and a base layer under a long sleeve top with gloves. 23 miles for the week including a 9 mile parkrun sandwich. Did Dinton again as it's a nice run there, especially with the footpath nicely firmed up by the cold. Also there's normally a good chance of being first finisher without going eye balls out.

    It was pretty busy though with 500+ but managed to finish first in 18:34. It was an honest tempo effort though, bit more than last time and I did just enough to finish 5 seconds ahead of what turned out to be a v55 in second. 


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    SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Good week, SG. You certainly stack them well.

    Only joking re socks, Reg. Have heard the ‘three sock’ euphemism used before to keep one’s fifth appendage suitably warm. Finishing first in over 500 is good skills!

    Not feeling quite ready to race, I slotted Linda Franks 5M into a long run. It’s an excellent race and one that seems to go well for me – sub 30 minutes on each occasion other than the covid-moved summer edition in 36C.

    6.2M to get there, via some of the less scenic roads of Cheltenham. Bit of a break to pin number, dump kit, team photo etc before lining up suitably far back. Enjoyed chatting with some club mates as we cruised through in maybe marathon pace, tempo (who knows at the moment): 6:47, 6:36. 6:50 and then 12:58 for the final two miles having missed lapping the fourth mile. Opened the legs up a little in the final mile so a touch frustrating not to see the splits.

    What a pleasant way to run a race! Quick chat, then 6.8M returning on some nicer cycle paths. 18.1M at 7:38 average, albeit with a significant elapsed time/moving time differential. Really good to feel strong and get in some quality in amongst the longest run since the hamstring injury. Hope to now push on!

    As ever, a fantastically organised event by Almost Athletes. A huge number of marshals and other volunteers, top runners at the front and a massive range to the back, all superbly supported and encouraged.

    Also, first time ever in short tights. Not sure how I feel about wearing them, but did help keep the hammy warm.


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    TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    SC - I've not been able to wear any of them in the wet - the grip is atrocious. If it's wet I try to stick to Adidas, though the Asics Metaspeed Edge+ acquited themselves quite well on that front.

    Reg - these were mid-length lycra with an equivalent length base layer underneath so positively demure by my usual standards! 
    Sounds like your running is hanging in there quite well. I'd imagine it won't take you much to swap from a multisport focus to a running focus and put down some good times if you want to in the future!

    SG - I like a float session. So many variations out there. Stuff like a Deek 5km, or alternations like I was doing the other day. Not to mention the surge runs. All good ways to break up a run. Good week from you!

    SQ - good use of the race, and glad to read you're enjoying yourself again after the down-time.

    It was too icy to risk a session on Friday so ended up as 11m with the last 6 'brisk'. My planned second run was put off as we were assembling a treadmill and it was getting too icy to even jog by the time we finished.
    Got absolutely clattered by the dog on Saturday morning - 30kg+ of pure clutziness hitting me at full speed side on, so settled for a very easy 12m Saturday, and then a 5m jog yesterday, to leave me with 80m for the week. Will decide on today's plans once I get out the door and can gauge where the pain levels are.
    Last week's 83m was my highest for 25 weeks. I don't want to even look to see when the last time I managed back to back 80m+ weeks was!
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    Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Ah I see SQ, sorry I was a bit slow there!

    Nice long run/race. I've run a few races in half-tights now. I feel more exposed in short-shorts and the half-tights give me the same race mode feeling. The effect of having the hamstring hugged is also comforting, albeit I have no faith that they actually help prevent muscle tears in any way.
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    SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Half tights? Not those things just over the knee cap? or normal compression shorts?

    I can still do only steady runs in leggings, too warm.

    Nice race SQ, and reps SG, hope the track wasn't as icy as ours was. Good mileage TT!

    Did Houghton Hall Parkrun Saturday morning in the new VF, felt pretty good. Got third just pushed the last lap, low 18's. Drove to London to watch the Cross challenge thing at Parliament Hill which was a good laugh, our training partner, Mo was running. Really good standard.

    This is where things start going 'South'. Started my long run and the knee started playing up a bit after 3/4 miles and hurt a bit about half way. Anyway the route was longer than expected, 18 miles. Knee wasn't particularly painful, couldn't really feel it.

    But could feel it all afternoon and wasn't great this morning. Pretty sure it's the old ITB/Runners Knee. Lots of hills in the last couple of weeks, so this maybe the reason - the classic symptom of being worse downhill.

    Anyway will investigate some exercises and see how it goes. Not great timing with Euro indoors 8 weeks away...
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    Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    You're thinking of capri pants I think SC  :D

    Hopefully you can manage this niggle away. 
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 22
    SQ - nice to see you on the mend. Good use of the race/long run combo. I wear half tights when it rains, less material for flapping about. But i would wear 2 in 1 shorts anyway, no little shorts........the idea behind half tights is they compress the muscles and delay fatigue.

    Reg - going nicely, must be a while since you last hurt yourself.

    SG - good that you're going well again with decent mileage too.

    Simon - I an still having knee trouble, could be wear and tear, could be runners knee type stuff too.......strengthening will help, turns out taping them helps a bit too, I was surprised, I thought that taping was snake oil stuff.

    Plugging away, supposed to be doing less volume and miles with a bit more quality, but too much ice prevented any quality last week. First 20 miler of the year saturday though.
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    Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    TR, luckily got away without much of a dip in mileage, but certainly can't take things for granted.
    It's amazing how something can feel significant, then a couple of stretches can see it off.

    A private physio saying a 2nd appointment isn't needed says it all really doesn't it!!

    Hope you find your equivalent to see your woes off completely too, SC too.
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    Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    80 mile weeks having been clattered by a massive dog TT? You're a blooming machine!

    Last couple of weeks I'd split a tempo into sections, first week to test some faster paces after the brief tightness incident, and last week, just playing with 3miles, 2m, 1m faster chunks off 90secs.

    This week I wanted a continuous tempo, which ended at 

    6.5miles at average 6.15 (6.14 from Strava!)


    mile 6 6.11 pace, then the last half mile squeezing sub 6.

    Always great to get a tempo done.
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    SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Cheers all - Yes so got a set of 5 exercises online

    Sitting down, rolled up towel under bad knee, pressing down
    Sitting against wall, squeezing ball between legs (Thats a really good one)
    Straight leg raises
    Quad stretches (grabbing ankle thing)
    Calf stretch
    Hammy stretch against wall

    Did same 'school run' as yesterday this morning, already lots better. Can still feel it, but pain down from 5/6 to 1/2 level.

    No training this week and probably won't do Southerns. Any runs need to be flat, remembered how many steep downhills I do on my runs.

    So these shorts are just compression shorts then?
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    Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    SCoombes2 said:
    Cheers all - Yes so got a set of 5 exercises online

    Sitting down, rolled up towel under bad knee, pressing down
    Sitting against wall, squeezing ball between legs (Thats a really good one)
    Straight leg raises
    Quad stretches (grabbing ankle thing)
    Calf stretch
    Hammy stretch against wall

    Did same 'school run' as yesterday this morning, already lots better. Can still feel it, but pain down from 5/6 to 1/2 level.

    No training this week and probably won't do Southerns. Any runs need to be flat, remembered how many steep downhills I do on my runs.

    So these shorts are just compression shorts then?
    Some compression shorts are half tights but not all half tights are compression shorts. Some compression shorts are actually underwear and all half tights are outerwear.  :D

    Have fun squeezing your ball between your legs!
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    SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Reg - but those over the knee ones look well dodgy ;)

    I will ;)
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    Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23
    Reg's comment makes me remember sitting on a train with a pal about 20 years ago and I'd for some reason decided that an opened carton of milk was best placed between both knees for safekeeping, while I looked for something in my rucksack.

    I can still hear matey's shriek of horror as I didn't manage to keep my knees at the same angle, spraying him with the contents of the carton. Nice.
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    Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    SCoombes2 said:
    Reg - but those over the knee ones look well dodgy ;)

    I will ;)

    There was a trend for 'men' wearing below the knee legwear, usually cargo style by someone from Essex on holiday in Spain.

    TR - Half-tights are definitely good for rain, I hate wet shorts flapping on the legs. Good luck with the 20 miler.

    Just an easy run yesterday. Hamstring was threatening to cramp up I think and they have both been sore at points over the last few days. I also have sore glutes (in a good way) from Bulgarian split squats yesterday. I pretty much never do these because they are so hard and I always lose my balance. I did them at home so I didn't make a spectacle of myself in the gym! Seemed to work though. I am trying to force myself to do the things I am weak at. 
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    SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Reg - I had some of those things early 00's. Some dodgy photos of me sporting them around Boston/Martha's Vineyard. Usually sported with a white shirt with stitched up rolled up sleeves, a la Take That ;) Oh dear..

    Walk then a little 5 mins run with a heavy bag today and knee OK - will do 20 mins before I get to Euston tonight.
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    SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Have enjoyed the shorts chat  :D. Mine are sold as compression (Red Venom), but sadly really aren't so. 
    Split squats are great, Reg. You've inspired me to plan to do some tomorrow (and probably forget). 
    Photo please, SC  :D Hope the injury doesn't disrupt training for the champs.
    Good work putting together that tempo, SG. Nicely building from previous weeks. 
    Nicely done on the 20, TR. First of the year from the thread. 
    Avoid the dog-rugby, TT. 

    Tuesday morning intervals called for 6 x 3 minutes off 90s. Early doors, as has become the usual on a Tuesday, and perhaps unsurprisingly, the legs were a bit flat after Sunday. Still, 6:39 average pace for the ons, exactly the same as last week off slightly less net rest. 8M at 7:50 average.
    Little 3M loosener in the afternoon before a few weights.
    Then 1h15 easy this afternoon along the canal. Slower than previous two weeks for this run, but that's fine in the context. 8.8M at 8:35 pace. HR very low which I suppose is a good thing. Less great was the right hamstring getting a bit sore again; perhaps need to double down on the stretching again. 
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    SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    SQ - Well aware of the stretches now, especially for running in hilly areas as eventually the downhills can get ya!!

    I'll see what I can do picture wise ;)
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    Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Hope you remembered the split squats SQ!

    Gym session this morning and then 5 x 1km at lunch. My hamstrings still feel like they're vulnerable so eased into it with a 3:47 loosener, then 3:32.3:29,3:32 & 3:34. Apart from the hamstring paranoia it all felt pretty comfortable. I'll look to build these to 8 x 1km over the next three weeks. Weird to think I am carrying the equivalent of 5 litres of water in extra weight doing these!
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    SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Good session, Reg. At least it is 5kg of muscle rather than the less helpful stuff some of us are more prone to. Split squats completed!

    Put the kit by the back door last night in case I woke early enough to get out, but suspected probably not. Pretty restless night so cut my losses and got out just after 5. Plan called for 20 mins easy, 20 steady, 20 hard. A challenge at that time of day, I find. But gently progressive nonetheless. 

    Deadlifts, pull ups, shoulder presses and split squats this afternoon before a 4M recovery double. This is turning into a weight training wire!
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    Simon - I have to run up and down a long climb every commute, its defo not knee friendly.

    I did squats, deadlifts, dips, pull ups and upright rows yday.
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    Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Strange amount of talk about squats and underwear this last day.
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    SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Possibly a better range of movement if squatting without underwear. 
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    Squat, deadlift, dips, pull ups, upright row and shoulder press today.........I've run a bit this week too.
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