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RW Forum Six - 3.30
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Paul- wow good splits
. It looks like you were well on track for sub 3:30 if it hadn't been for a slow start. This is why I'm not so sure about doing London. I would be furious if all my training resulted in a disappointing result because I kept on being stopped in my tracks...
Sundance- sorry to hear it didn't quite go to plan from mile 18, still a very respectable result, you should be proud.
I think we all agree that you can't trust the garmin.
Well done on all the PB's and for those of you whom made the magic 3:30...
if you did not make the magic 3:30....you are now well placed for the Autumn marathon Season. keep the faith !!
Great splits Paul... although you lost 30-45 seconds or so in the first 5k ... wasnt it the last 7-10k that cost you time - you were at 1:44:10 for the half? Or are those your Garmin stats hence maybe 0.2m out...
Ps Much as I love the course, Liverpool Marathon is maybe not one to go for PBs... 3 big hills or hilly sections mean you'd need to aiming for 3:20-25 to get under 3:30 perhaps. Chester maybe better allegedly flatter.
Sundance, can't see how Garmin watch would loose 3 minutes... its still a watch once GPS fails... maybe you had auto pause on, paused by mistake? I've done this before in a race. Very much a doh.
Gazelle I wish, time to chance your name on runners world?
It was great watching it online,.. seeing the estimated finish time at each split.. exciting.
Well done one and all.
Absolutely loved watching VLM and tracking folks online! It really seemed to add somehting to the occasion for me.
Gazelle! Everybody has remarked how well you did and I have to add, managing such an even split is just "AWESOME!" All of us on this thread have run marathons, so we know just how painful those last 6-ish miles can be, so to keep pushing as you did ... thoroughly, thoroughly deserved success on breaking 3:30!!
But some other brilliant races out there.
Paul P, excellent splits. The start would have been difficult to make up as it would have required recalculations all the way along the route, so a very impressive PB.
Scuba, 5 minutes off a PB is excellent.
Mr P, wise move to enjoy the day once you realised the 3:30 wasn't going to happen this time around. Most people don't have that presence of mind at that stage of the race(!) so well done. Hope feeling ill was very temporary.
Sundance, well done on equalling your previous time. I think we probably all understand the feeling of disappointment when you train particularly hard for something and it doesn't quite go as expected, but I'm sure the rewards will be there in the future.
shaggy, I think another success just adds to your online coaching pedigree! We all know that Gazelle had to do the work, but the guidance has clearly been excellent!
FRC and Brolish, we will be following your progress with interest!
And a word for Brolish and SSheep, who are obviously star supporters, having turned out and got to the pub afterwards! Hope the exam went well today SS.
Take care you London marathoners. Remember, you don't have to run at all this week
and even if you want to, it may be best not to or at least keep it very easy. I have started back running now, shortish run yesterday and a 3 miler this am. Legs are still working, but I don't think I'll be doing anything too tough just yet (he says, heeding shaggy's recovery advice)
Waves to all
Fit-Cat. - They are the offical spilts. I was thinking the extra pace needed in first 15k to get my average to 8min per mile and get on target could have been a factor on me slowing in last 7-10km? I probably should have slowed down at 13miles to 8min per mile but i already had a rhythm which i found hard to change. Will never know really
I did Liverpool last year and agree it certainly isnt flat. You may be right and i could be better choosing Chester.
Sundance, well done yesterday have you suffered with stomach cramps before? How spooky hey meeting two of my clubmates I hope they were nice about me
Speed sheep how was your exam today?
FRC I'm not sure I want to change my name just yet! I'm a typical woman and want to knock off more time! Brolish and Speed sheep forced me into doing the London marathon next year
Juggler glad your legs are getting back to normality and I'm happy that we gave you an interesting day yesterday tracking us. Was there times when you thought oh no????
Right time to get comfy race report to follow.....
I woke up and had my usual Jam and toast followed by a hot cross bun. We walked to the start and the weather was perfect. I drank about a pint of water and a 500ml bottle of lucozade and stopped drinking, as advised, at 8:45am. I made my way to the pen ready for the start, running my race plan through my mind. Don’t read the next bit Shaggy…. I have ran most of my MP in training at 7:55mm so my race plan was to do the first 13miles at 7:55 pace and then pending on how I felt try and run slightly quicker during the second half. It seemed like a fair plan to me.
It took exactly 1 minute for me to get over the start line, something that came in helpful later in the race! I am so glad I had decided to put Gazelle on the back of my vest as just before we reached mile 1 Old For Speed from Minni’s Sub 3:30 forum said hello, we had a little chat and carried on our way. I took in all the sights and enjoyed the first half of the race, a good tip from this forum was breaking the race down, so my first aim was to get to 5 miles then have a gel, hubby was due at 6 miles so only one more mile to go, next aim was to get to 10 miles and take another gel. This method of breaking the distance up into manageable chunks really did help.
I think it was at about the mile 12 point that I got a tap on my shoulder, it was Mr Puffy, and the first words out of my mouth were “don’t tell Shaggy that I’m doing 7:55mm until mile 13”, a simple “hello” would probably have sufficed but I think I felt a tad guilty, hence the confession. We had a little chat and then settled into our running again. At about 14 miles Paul Platt came over and I said “I’ve just met Mr Puffy off the thread” So there was a quick meet and greet between the 3 of us. The next 2 miles whizzed by, I thought there would be more space for the runners at this point but there was a constant steam of us, a sub 3:30 pace maker and gang were right next to me and I had to use a few elbows as the runners just wanted to barge everyone over to stick with the pacemaker! I was thinking shall I stick with them or not? Then decided not to, it was my race and I was in the zone.
At mile 16 a runner was recording how he felt on his phone, he said his legs were heavy, so I questioned myself and to my relief decided mine were fine. We then went up a slight hill and now all I could think was “oh no are my legs heavy!” I checked my watch and realised I was doing 7:41 so slowed my pace back down. Only 4 miles to go now until mile 20.
As I approached 19miles the clock said 2hr 30min, my brain wasn’t working properly now because in my head I was thinking “oh no I wont be able to run 7miles in an hour!!” I put my strides that Shaggy had me doing in training into action and went thought the next mile in 7:31; I could feel that I wasn’t going to keep this up. At this moment I clocked the 3:30 pacer and decided this time to run with them, my time was slowing and the next few miles were 7:57 and 8:03.
I got to mile 23 and said to myself “only a 3mile recovery run to do you can do it”, and then I had a twinge in my left thigh, a feeling I have experienced before, CRAMP, it wasn’t full on just a twinge, I kept telling myself it was only in my head. Oh no a few minutes later the same thing happened in my other thigh, I then remembered my Hubby had a McDonalds (ok so I had a few of his chips only for the salt purpose!) the day before and I told him to get me a sachet of salt which I put in my race belt! So I got the salt out and put it in my mouth and swallowed it, it didn’t even taste that bad (I’m cringing writing this!) not sure if I went through a tunnel but my Garmin registered 6:54 for mile 24, 7:25 for mile 25, 7:47 for mile 26.
I then saw the 600 metres to go and thought a lap and a half of the track you can do it, so I dug in, I can’t recall anytime in my running career where I have dug in so much, I’m a lazy runner and when I get out of my comfort zone I slow down. Not yesterday, I couldn’t of pushed any harder, in the last 400mtrs about every 10th step my right calf spasmed, I could see the clock was at 3:30:57 I knew that I had a minute to spare and the old me would of slowed right down and let the pain go away but I ran my little heart out right to the end, I had visioned how I would finish with my arms in the air so threw them up to get a good photo (Sorry to whoever I barged out of the way for my moment of fame!) I did what you get told not to do and that is just stop at the end, it wasn’t through choice, I couldn’t move my legs, they’d fully seized up.
Garmin stats and VLM Stats to follow
Garmin stats
I'm so glad I went for the 7:55mm as a guide line on my watch and that I didn't become a slave to it.
Mile 1-9 @ 8:12, 7:54, 7:43, 7:58, 7:53, 7:56, 7:54, 7:54, 7:59
mile 10-18 @ 7:56, 7:54, 7:58, 8:01, 7:52, 7:54, 7:41, 7:50, 7:53
mile 19-26.71 @ 7:57, 7:31, 7:57, 8:03, 8:01, 6:54, 7:25, 7:47, 7:24
Total 26.71miles
Avg pace 7:50
Vlm stats
5K 0:24:585:0010K00:49:534:5915K01:14:5005:0020K01:39:4705:00HALF01:45:1004:5525K02:04:2604:5730K02:29:0504:5635K02:54:0205:0040K03:18:5304:59finish time03:29:20 04:46Sorry I have waffled above.
A massive thanks to Shaggy for all he has done and for the rest of you as knowing you have been watching my every move for the last 4 months really spurred me on during my training and on the day.
I'm looking forward to reading the other race reports, please post them on here as we can all keep learning from each others experience's.
Only 6 days to go for Ferrous Ferret is anyone else doing MK marathon? FF my best bit of advise to you is when you think you can't give anymore think of us watching and how proud we are that you have given everything, it gives you an extra boost that you didn't know you had
Managed to get my stats from Garmin
As said these are not right as the mile markers ended up going further and further away as the race continued. Not sure why uploaded as they were obviously a load of rubbish as it had me down as running 27.12 miles and i never did 6.42 at mile 20 and 6.14 at mile 25
It really was a battle calculating it in my head, the only plus was the pace band i had on. I will never run without one again.
I thought it was about 0.2miles out but remembering now after docklands it really did go way out. (guess mile 20?)
Great race report Gazelle!!
Looking at splits posted recently, maybe a future thread should be "how to use the Garmin" and "why you can't trust a Garmin!"
looking forward to FF running this Sunday. Good Luck FF
Waves to all
Although in upto i think around mile 16/17 it was only about 0.2miles out I can see why data went wrong.
There are obvious points when i open up my garmin data in google earth.
Around Canary Wharf (see below)
Around mile 22 (see below)
then finally just before embankment (think its the two tunnels, one being train station)
Excellent results
Up at 6:00 for breakfast, honey on toast and a shower. Lift tho the train station for 7:00 and into London chatting to other random marathoners on the way. Across London on the tube then into a packed train from London Bridge to Bleakheath, very warm and slow but did get a chance to talk to a bloke running as a clown. Saw Sundance in the start pen and said hello and realized that my long sleeve compression top was probable not a good choose if it stayed as sunny.
Took about minute an a half to cross the line and had pacing group about 10-15 seconds ahead which was useful as it meant I could start with them but not have them in the way. the fist mile and a half was very crowded and over the road humps one person fell and near took a load more with him. It was a bit of a surprise how slow the start was having started on red last year where it started with no problem so by mile 2 I was about 30-40 seconds behind plan. I planned to take 5-6mile to get back on plan but realized that by Garmin I needed to run at 7:50-7:55 just to do 8:00 based on elapsed time and mile markers. So by mile 8 was back on pace but having to catch up did put an extra strain on me mentally if not physically and realizing that I need to hold 7:55. Gels at 5 and 10 went down ok and plenty of water bottles but only sips, it did feel hot.
Miles 1-5 8:43 8:07 7:44 7:38 8:01
Miles 6-10 7:57 7:56 7:42 7:55 7:52
Miles 11-15 7:51 7:59 7:51 7:53 8:04
Miles 16-20 8:11 8:07 8:06 8:29 7:40
Miles 21-25 8:32 8:45 8:50 8:24 7:52
Mile 26 9:25 last 0.71 6:23
Official 5k splits 25:32 24:45 24:48 24:54 25:26 26:48 28:33 12:33
Official time 3:37:54 PB by 4:59
Glad I took Shaggy's advice about pace band and clock/elapse time on Garmin and not trust auto lap on Garmin.
SS - how was exam?
FF - you ready for Sunday?
Gazelle - great report but how do you feel physically today?
Juggler I think we should throw the blooming watches away!
ST you did really well not to walk when you realised you were fading, a 5min PB in London is great.
How far out is the garmin in other marathons? If people are thinking of doing London again would it be best to train for over the distance and a quicker pace?
Well done everybody for the super racing yesterday and for some cracking race reports today. You all are making me a very proud man indeed and to see all of you do so well has made this coaching experience very enjoyable and very rewarding, I thank you all very much for that.
Do take time out from running for at least the next few weeks and really for the next couple of months just try and keep things a bit easier and don`t dive into the next massive challenge, as I have said before, allow the body time to repair recover and absorb all the wonderful work that you have been doing this year.
We still have the rest of the gang yet to race so we need to continue supporting them, hopefully they have got a good few ideas from seeing you all race this weekend and then they will get there just to toe the boards so to speak.
Gazelle - putting "shaggy don`t read the next bit " will mean only one thing..............I will read it.
7:55 min/mile pace indeed.......tut......tut......tut.
M...eldy - didn`t she do well.
M...eldy thanks once again for all your hard work in organising this experience, it's been amazing
ST My legs are so stiff it takes me ages to stand up, I'm trying to do small stretches every so often. My big toe is very badly bruised and I think I may loose the toe nail which I have never experienced before. Apart from that I think I'm fine. How about you and the rest of you who ran yesterday?
Crash Hamster are you still doing the Stratford marathon on Sunday?
FF what training will you be doing in the run up to the MK marathon?
Shaggy I can't seem to read the 2nd or 3rd line from the bottom of your post
Gazelle! Selective sight is a common post-marathon malady
Scuba T, nice report! I liked the phrase "it was a matter of holding on and making as big a dent in my pb as possible." It reminded me of some advice I had just prior to Brighton, it went something like "Don't be s*-&"
And you did well to hold on and make a sizeable dent!!!
Paul P, some excellent results. Your Garmin obviously thinks you're one of the X-men, travelling through walls and all sorts !! FYI, my Garmin recorded Brighton Marathon 2012 as 26.39 miles, and BM 2011 as 26.51. So I will adjust a few seconds per mile for "MP" (or whatever my next main aim will be) but I won't be throwing it away!
Take it easy FF. Not long to Sunday!
Waves to all
ST and Gazelle- great race reports. What you're saying about your garmin splits only confirms what I knew after Reading- there is no way I'm ever running a big race again without a backup plan. By the way... does anyone know if the latest garmin models are any better? I think I'm going to set off at 7:50-7:55 and keep on adjusting accroding to the pace band.
How is everyone feeling today? Gazelle- hope the legs are recovering and the toenail stays on
.
FF- how are the final preparations going?
SSheep- hope you let your hair down yesterday
. Anything exciting planned for the last night in London?
17m for me last night in a drizzle which was an improvment on hail/ pouring rain. I'm beginning to get used to getting soaked on every run. 5m recovery shuffle tonight and tomorrow another killer- 11m with 5x 1200m @ 5k pace.
Happy recovery and running everyone!
Congratulations to all the PBers at VLM and thanks to everyone for sharing their race reports, theres always something to learn from them.
Last long run of 11 done on Saturday, a recovery run yesterday that was a little too quick- I've got the weeks long run tonight
, which will be 7 with 2 at MP, then a 5 miles with 5x100m strides for Thursday. I may skip or reschedule to Friday the 4 planned for Saturday.
Brolish I think the newer GPSs get a satellite lock quicker, but I don't think they are fundamentally more accurate. I think I remember reading that it's the size of the aerial which governs how well the signal is picked up. Theres some interesting background on the Garmin site http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/
SSheep - hope the exam went OK for you.
I'm starting to obsessively check the weather forecasts for Sunday, so typical taper behaviour. I notice (in the sub-3 thread) that carbo-depletion seems to be back in vogue- I may pass on this, but am looking forward to a few extra carb snacks towards the end of the week. I'll nail my colours definatively to the mast after tonights run, but 7:55 initial pace sounds like it might be a good pace to start with.
I can't wait for Sunday, kick back, relax, and watch someone else do the hard work!
That was the first thing Gazelle said she was so frightened!
Brolish, those are good runs. Tomorrow's 11miles with 5x1200 @5k pace. Now THAT is an interval session!
Hope all you Londoners are doing ok. Remember to keep the carbs up for a little while yet, you probably lost quite a few on Sunday !!
FF, when does carb loading start for you?
Waves to all
Well done Gazelle, brilliant pacing and an excellent race report! You must still be floating on air!
Nice PB ST!
Work colleague of Mrs CH's finished London in 6:29 on a properly broken fibula...
Stratford for me on Sunday, but bearing the above in mind, I'll not be "racing" as I'm a bit sore (the doc cut my thyroxine down which has left me feeling awful, so I've upped the dose back to where it was, but I've lost too much training to be due a good race...and my right Achilles is whingy)
Juggler, hubby says I also suffer from selective hearing, might need to get both of these sorted out soon
Are you doing any light runs this week?
Brolish, when you post your runs I used to think "wow I wish I could run that far" but today I am just thinking OMG where do you get the energy from, you are going to have a great race in Copenhagen. It's a nice day up here today so hope you manage to have a nice dry 5mile run.
FF are you excited??? Will the MK Marathon be on tv? How many people are running it? Oops sorry for all the questions! Try not to get too obsesive by the weather, it was a lot hotter than what the forecast said for Sunday. Remember January and February we were running in snow storms, gale force winds and driving rain! Do you know what pen you will be starting in?
Mr Puffy I was scared that you would grass me up
How are you feeling today?
My legs are more sore than stiff today. I have been wearing my compression tights for the last two days and nights(There in the wash now lol) I wonder how much they have helped me recovery? Does anyone else use them?
Exam went good, thanks all for asking. First third was a bit iffy, second third was cool, final third fair to middling. I'm pretty sure I did enough to pass
And I have to confess I'm typing this from the Fifth Floor Bar at Harvey Nicks, cocktail on the go after a morning's shopping, and am en route to the hairdressers. It's a tough life!!
Loved the race reports... so much fun in them and also tons of good info too.
Gazelle... whispering to Mr Puffy - you were going for 7:55 ! Classic. Being fair... it worked... with the extra 0.2-0.5m with number of people and not getting race line maybe you needed to run around 7.55.
If those Garmin readings are from 305s and 205s then yes the later 405/cx and 610 etc are better coping with tall buildings and weaker signals... at 19-20 miles at London for example I know.. someone posted theirs from last year - Scuba I think?.
They will still jump going through tunnels and things of course.. friend's 405cx jumped at 24 or 25 I think and ended up with a 7 minute mile split when actually doing 11mm. She ended up with 26.7 or 8 from this.
Important question.. Do Gazelles have toe nails? I thought more hoofs or paws after Sunday...
Brolish, you like getting rained on..
That sounds like a nasty long run with the 1200m x 5.. Enjoy! 
After reading through everyone's stats as they happened, its given me some new ideas for odd training exercises.. (I like my odd ideas but you already knew this... ).
8mm mile for 3:30 marathon was obvious to me already ... and also splitting into perhaps 10m + 10m + 10k as a tactic, so maybe 1:21 for 1st 10m, 1: 20ish for 2nd 10m, then sub 49m for last 10k.
Completely unaware of the maths side of 42km/ 5k splits... Every 5k for 3:30 marathon you were hitting around 25 minutes, a bit above, a bit below. Gazelle got hers spot on, a tiny bit over in first 2 or 3, then gradually pulled it in.. others forced the pace to get under 1:40 for the 20k split and then paid for it later on it seemed?
Anyway, I like running on tired legs sometime, so will be doing some 5k or even 10k splits on future long runs, also thinking.. if its when its starts to hurt or tired, do it after a gym session, which can really give you that heavy legged feel. Maybe like it is at 15 miles.
Got a short race on tomorrow with club 4-5 miles.
Then final 20 miler South Cheshire race on Sunday.. noticed this is quite hilly from 5-6 miles to 9, then downhill so aim is to do some chunks at MP beginning & end. Not burn all matches.
Waves to athletes, especially FF in taper!