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Sub 3 hour London Marathon 2014 VLM
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Don't overthink it Wenty. It is hard now, I certainly wouldn't abandon the sub 3 plan just yet. It's perfectly normal for it to feel hard work, just trust in the training.
i have doubts too but I shall see on the day. My first was 2010 4:43!! then did 3:43, 3:29, 3:15:08, 3:13. Possibly need another year to go sub 3 but I shall certainly give it a damn good go.
Yes certainly agree this is getting hard now-I have a question / need advice for you experienced lot please.
I am 43 and have ran regularly for last 2 years
I did my first marathon last year (white peak) in 3:12 after following a 3:30 plan and sticking to it exactly.
I have entered London this year with a GFA time.
BUT, I am not following any plan at all this time and running most of my runs either fell or trail. I started up distance mid December but had the intention of doing a few marathons this year for enjoyment rather than times expecting 3:30 ish.
I have run 200 miles this January av pace of 7:55, with varying distance upto 19 miles and probably best pace run was 10 miles @ 6:55.
Last night at the end of a 55 miles week I thought it would be a good idea to run a 13.1 mile time trial-just to see where I am-this I did in 1:33 it was a bit hilly 1000 foot in total and a few styles and gates to contend with and I did it with my dog-so probably could have been slightly quicker.
What I want to know is whats the chance of running sub 3:00 from this with 2 months to go?
I don't mind putting the effort and time in but my extremes are either work like hell for 2 months and go for sub 3:00 or enjoy the training and the marathons and end up 3:30 ish- Either way may training will still be trails and fell running- only 7 of the 200 miles in Jan was done on road.
Thanks
Running eye, you have similar or slightly slower times to mine, and i think realistically, as with my chances your chances are slim, but not impossible.
I think your best bet would be do a half marathon reasonably flat race and see if you can do 1:25 - 1:27, and if you can then you have a chance at a sub 3.
How do you feel comapred to last year?
Thanks Wenty-Last year was easy to gauge as I had a plan and stuck to it-found it tedious though and I am far more enjoying my running this year.
From a practical point of view this time around I have the experience of a marathon under my belt and a year extra (1600 miles) of running
Running eye - I did my first marathon in 3:12 (London) and my pb for a half is still only 1:27, although I have done sub 3 twice. I think your lack of marathon experience is more likely to be against you as I believe the body takes a few years to reach its peak for marathon running. If you compare where you are to one of the easily available sub 3 schedules I think you will find you are a little off the pace.
If I was you I would just be aiming for a pb as one step closer to a sub 3.
Wenty - keep the faith. That 12 mile run of yours is as fast or faster than I have done that distance in a training run - even when I was in sub 3 form.
Trust me you have the basic pace. It is all about getting that endurance in the legs and that only comes from those long runs on tired legs.
I can't think of a reason why you should abandon your sub 3 target - can you!!!???
Looking at your training guys i honestly think you can all go sub 3, but with the caveat that you have to get some structured consistent training in between now and your spring mara. Non of this stuff is easy, especially the mara paced runs, which is the ones i least like to do. I used to have the same doubts when doing these, they just felt uncomfortable towards the latter miles in training and i always thought how the hell am i supposed to do 26.2 miles at mara pace, but that freaky taper thing is a magical phenomena. Just take it from me that if you push yourself out, week after week and try and practice your MP runs, long runs and intervals you will hit your target. You can see i've had more sub 3 failures than most but with a little experience under my belt i know you all can do this. A few other things i've changed over the years,
1, i train and race in race shoes, Asics Ultraspeed work for me,
2.I changed to forefoot running a few years back and reduced stride length and increased cadence, Its free speed
3. started using Gels in long run training and got used to taking on board every 30mins, Powerbar C2 Max
4. Got a coach, invaluable
5. Cross train quite a bit, especially cycling, i'm not a high mileage guy, not even for 100mile ultras,
6. Use a foam roller daily on my calves to try and prevent injury. I've struggled with achilles tendonitis in the past but now i'm a foamy convert.
Hope this helps
thanks DM, very useful.
Can i just ask what speed you run your long runs at and what distance do you run when running at marathon pace?
running eye - I went from 3.13 to 2.58 in 6 months. You obviously have a good base, you just need to add some more structured training to your week...tempo runs, intervals, a few 20+mi long runs etc...and just continue running on those trails and hills etc. If start adding speedwork don't suddenly increase your weekly mileage otherwise you're more likely to get injured...and give yourself plenty of chance to recover between harder sessions.
Entering a half marathon race late Feb early March will give you a good indication of where you are.
On the other and you could just keep doing what you're doing and don't worry too much about sub 3.
Hi running eye: I run my log runs at 7:30 ish, i don't stress too much if it swings slower or slightly faster but i'm mindful that i'm honing my aerobic fitness and building those mitochondria, I don't see logic in speeding up to near mara pace during the latter third miles, especially if i've had a midweek run of running 90 minutes at MP.
My mara pace miles depends on the goal, if it were 2:59:59 then i'd run at 6:50. I've noticed that my garmin 310xt is around 5 secs/mile too optimistic, so when it reads 6:45 at every auto lap, i know in reality its probably 6:50.
my Goal this year is to hold 6:40, maybe with carrot costume
i am tad undecided at the moment.
15West makes a great point regarding running a half mara in feb/March, its a good indication of where you are and allows a little course correction.
6M tempo run today at 6:21 pace. Ow.
Anyone following P&D in this thread?
Me!
There's a P&D thread over in Training section if you're interested.
Fabulous information there David! Thanks
My first 3 Londons (96/7/8) were 3.38/3.14/2.58. How hard can this be? I spent the next 15 years running every time from 3.10 to 3.00.33 (yes, I remember the seconds!)
Last year (age 47) ran 2.59 & 2.55.
For me the key session was the Sunday log run, but making it progressive - if I ran 20, 10 would be by myself and the last 10 with my club, at a much faster pace.
+1 for the foam roller
15West - awesome! Yep, I've seen that thread actually. Although, 2,000 messages and counting I thought sod that, a bit too much for me.
REM - off to foam roll now...
Interesting point about training in race shoes - I use training shoes to train in and race shoes to race in. Do people think this will make a difference?
Wenty, I think it depends on your foot strike. I over pronate so train in training shoes but race in racers. I think it helps reduce my risk of injury plus I like the feeling of wearing lighter shoes on race day. It gives me a psychological boost.
PCleasby - I'm the same thats why i race and train in different shoes!
DM spot on re taper. I have always found resisting the temptation to overtrain in the last 2 weeks a challenge. Also a fan of old fashioned carb depletion/carb load - but that could be an age thing!
Parkrun today! 18:21 and a new pb. Anyone else?
Nice work Chris, thats a good solid marker to suggest you're in sub 3 shape, as long as you nail your endurance too.
a 16 miler for me today, including an easy park run, I turned up late and ended up chasing everyone, then at 12 miles I was poleaxed by a dog in Richmond park, smashed phone, road rash everywhere, hilariious! at least the dog thought anyway. I was more concerned that my new garmin 620 was ok, which it was, I'd have been gutted if I'd lost 12 miles if data
so far this week...
last sunday...20 miles in 2:22
Tuesday 5 mile recovery
Wed - 10 miles in 72 mins
Thurs - 90 mins Yoga
Friday - 8 miles tempo in 52 mins
Sat - rest
Sun - planned 13 miles at pace
feeling good this week...extra mileage and more importantly a more positive mental attitude seems to be helping
Good work John, nice running, and a positive outlook too
what do you think of yoga and running?
Thanks David,
I'm using the p90x Yoga routine which is quite challenging but I find it helps my flexibility. I find the more regularly I do it the better. Sometimes I make the mistake of leaving it too long between sessions and feel it the next day but I know it does me good the more I use it
Got next week away snowboarding for a few days so will be doing as much stretching and yoga as possible to help me do some form of exercise. Hope I don't loose too much fitness?
Nice one, I'll check that out, I'm about as flexible as an undertakers clientele!
Enjoy your snowboarding, in my experience, time off is a good thing, you'll lose nothing, if anything it'll allow you to absorb this weeks training load
Week 4 in my 12 week plan, it was meant to be a reduced mileage week but still seem to have done 55 mile. I might ease back for the early part of next week instead.
Feeling good so far...long way to go!
Monday - 5 recovery
Tuesday - 10.5 inc 4 x 10 mins HM pace
Wednesday - 9.5 at 7.05min/mile
Thursday - 7.5 inc 2 x 15 mins at HM pace
Friday - Day off
Saturday - 4 gentle
Sunday - 2.5 + HM race at MP + 2.5 (this is the plan for tomorrow)
206 miles done in jan highest ever, on build up to last years marathon av month was 170.
Legs are now feeling tired and this week was also meant to be reduced miles- think I will have a extra day off today and miss a easy 7 miler- good or bad idea?
Next week first time over 20 miles for 7 months and first of a planned 6 or 7 20+ mile runs so need to get the pace right on these, what are others running there lsr's at I am aiming for anything from 2:59 to 3:15 (PB 3:12 but that is my only marathon so would be PB?)
oh also how long should a threshold and tempo run be?
thanks
Thanks Wenty, David! 20 miles now - feel bizarrely nervous. Time to man up.
tough but ultimately rewarding half marathon PB today of 1:26:45
GET IN!
now for a week off running whilst snowboarding and stretching...
keep believing people!
Well done John. HM PB for me today too, 1:27:08 on a very undulating road course. I had planned to stick to MP but at half way I gave up on that plan and pushed on.
Enjoy your weeks snowboarding and come back injury free!