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Sub 3 hour London Marathon 2014 VLM
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The rule I've heard I'd that the long run should never be more than 50% of your weekly milage
Hey Wenty,
overtraining? maybe - I think this week I had too long between runs and didn't stretch enough
Eating enough? somehow the scales said I was 5 pounds heavy than last weekend! so I guess the answer is yes?
Sleep as been OK.
Will check I am getting enough Iron.
I think mentally I was not in the right place before this run. Wasn't sure what sort of pace to run at and the weather being crap really didn't get me in the right frame of mind. I hesitated for a couple hours before going out hoping the weather would improve and then had to go out in it anyway.
Thanks for that Millsy, I think you are spot on. It is clear I need to add more mileage during the week to build up a better base.
based on now being completely knackered from yesterday and with various aches and pains throughout my knees and ITB, how long should I wait before running again?
Guess I need to almost start again and begin building towards such a distance? a tempo run, a 1hr+ mid week run, speed work and then a long run on Sunday's? Don't think I can take more than about 4 runs a week based on how long I normally need to recover.
PLEASE tell me these 20 mile runs have not been for nothing and will benefit me some how?
yes I have one of those dreaded foam rollers. Hurts like hell but am trying to believe it does more harm than good
hey John, we all have good and bad runs so don't feel too down, BUT, if you're goal is 2:59:59, then you are definitely running your long runs too fast. I would even suggest that you need to go 30secs slower per mile. As already mentioned, if you're beasting yourself for every long run, you'll gradually grind yourself into the ground. If you can find the time for three runs in one week, minimum, one 10miler including interval work, one mara paced session between 10miles- 13 and a weekend slow long run, you'll nail sub 3. Just stay consistent with it and you'll get that sub 3. Oh yep, i use a foam roller daily, especially before a run, i swear by it.
Thanks for the advise David. Much appreciated.
So around 7:20-7.30 per mile pace for the long runs? I'm using km/h so that works out around 4:35 per km/h.
Should I dial it back a bit this week to help recovery from the 20 yesterday? Problem is I am away all next week skiing so will be a week with no running!
It's not skiing its altitude training
I have a "friend" who is looking to go sub 3 hr and is doing 400m intervals some days. what pace should he be looking to do the 400m intervals at and how many?
David that will be interesting - where are you skiing?
Hello Wenty! Just found this thread again. For those 400m intervals..maybe do them at 3k pace...or roughly 5.45 pace?
Ah cheers 15 west I was doing them (I mean my "Friend" was) at 5:15-5:20 so sounds about right - comfortably hard basically. 10k in 2 weeks so my "Friend" wanted to freshen the legs up with some speed.
But I would not be doing these of course because it is not in the P&D schedule currently.
Tuesdays are our clubs interval sessions. Between 600m and 1200m, instead of sticking with the 5 x 1200m or 6 x 1000m a few of us are doing double distances at a slower pace or based on time. This week we are doing 4 x 10 mins at 10M pace. It means we can stick with the club runners but make it more specific to marathon training.
I am not sure how much benefit there is in the shorter reps.
Hi Wenty, I suspect your "friend" might be better at basic speed than he is at endurance. If so, he might want to work on the latter. Marathons are really long.
800s, 1000s and mile repeats would be more beneficial at this stage.
And if speed is your string point then best to work on your endurance.
John - Millsy is right. Trying to run 20 milers off of so little base running is always going to hurt. Most sub3 schedules will have you doing 40/50 miles by now and most serious sub3 contenders would be completely comfortable at running twenty miles. By the time you come back from skiing, provided you don't pick up more injuries doing that you will only probably have 6 weeks before the taper.
Unless there is something we don't know, (like you have already done sub 3 with almost no training), it may be wise to review your target for London. Of course would only be too pleased to be proved wrong!!!
Hi One Gear,
I appreciate your honesty. I agree I cannot continue in this form of training. I need to build up my base mileage and am open to further suggestions about how to structure what little time I have left training wise?
You mentioned that most sub 3 contenders would be comfortable at 20 miles at this point, but I thought most of the plans discussed on here are not running that sort of distance in your long runs yet?
Sadly I don't have any hidden sub 3 performances to draw on. Will these 20 mile runs have done any long term benefit towards my goal? or just damage?
I'm hoping to get some physiotherapy tomorrow night and then resume running on wednesday - what would you advise before I leave for skiing on Monday?
Thank for your time.
John
Thanks David
so the tempo runs are the 10-13 milers at Marathon Pace?
For me (a Pfitzinger plan follower) they're runs with 4-7 of the miles at a pace that I could race for one hour max.
For me that's a smidge under 10miles, around 6:01 to 6:03 pace. This week I have 11miles with 6 @ tempo.
John - definitely cut your long runs back to 16 and these should take you 2hrs to 2;15.
You should then recover quicker, and over 3 weeks try and get your mileage progressively up to nearer forty miles. If that feels okay try and feed in 1 or 2 20s in the weeks before the taper.
As I said I will be only too pleased to be proved wrong. I need to do a lot of training miles because I don't have a lot of basic speed and I am very old!!!
David - if you can run sub 3 off of that training you must have two things on your side that I don't. One is youth and the other is ability!
Happy New Year people. Sorry I've been away and sulking a bit. My sore knee from Frankfurt took an age to sort itself out but a shiny new half marathon pb of 1:25:45 at the weekend really cheered me up and was a great confidence boost.
My spring marathon is likely to be Boston. Slightly disappointed not to try and repeat my sub 3 at London last year. I like to compare like with like and it always feels great if you've progressed despite getting another year older!
Have any of you guys done Boston. Is a sub 3 realistic there if you are just to say on the cusp of it on a pancake flat course like London?
Autumn marathon likely to be Valencia again any tips greatly appreciated.
Onegear, thanks, I think I've just got a fair bit of endurance in my mid forties legs, lots of ironman and ultra running over the years and a stubborn bloody mindedness when it comes to racing
PCleasby, I have done Boston before, there is potential for a PB/ sub 3 just remember do hill training, down as well as up, and after heart break hill just go for it because its all down hill! I will be there again this year! after having down Brigthon and London, #3marathonchallenge
PC, the first year I ran Boston I was 3 seconds slower than I had been at London the year before, but it's a course that will bite back harder than a flat one if you run it badly. As Alan says, practice on the hills, they're not steep or particularly hard but you'll need to work to maintain pace when you get to them in the second half.
Conditons can vary a lot - one year recently there was a tailwind the whole way, other years have been very cold. Be prepared for just about anything.
Wow, Boston sounds good! Its on my dream list along with new york!
My Tempo pace is hanging in at around 6:30 for 5 miles out of a 10mile run!
Thanks Andrew / One Gear and David!
I've just found this webpage which seems to be a god send!
http://predawnrunner.com/2011/11/threehour-marathon-plan/
It includes the Pfitzinger 18/70 plan that many of you spoke of. Quick calculations put me 10 wks out from VLM 2014? so just wondering if starting at week 8 is a good idea? Or should I start with a couple from the Endurance and LT phase before following the plan for the remainder of the time?
AARRGH! too many questions and decisions about what to do! I think for peace of mind and sanity I will just decide that this plan is now my holy grail and follow it to the letter as best I can.
This is a great article and is written with ultra marathons in mind but applies equally to the marathon in my opinion:
http://ultrastu.blogspot.co.uk/p/article-training-for-ultras.html
The key thing for me is that it doesn't really matter what physical training you do, as long as you believe that it is sufficient for you to be able to achieve your goals (sub-3 marathon).
John there is a 18 week 50mpw schedule as well - thats the one I'm following (but not quite to the Andrews letter
)
Sure you could jump on board at week 8 - or jump on at week 12 and dodge a few weeks? (Dont tell Andrews I suggested that))