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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Good race CC. Funny how certain things catch the attention in races, like other runners kit, noisy sods, bleeping pace monitors. Anything really.
8 miles steady/easy for me first thing. Went around a local reservoir where I allowed myself to be side tracked by viewing (with others) a Lymnocryptes minimus!
Went back later and had three of them.
Seemed to be about a million Santas around the place. I guess no one really knows what anyone is about these days.
🙂
Good racing from Dachs and CC.
That is the usual arrangement if you have big and small laps (so small first which means you minimise the confusion with slow and fast runners). I have seen a few where it has been big followed by small and the leaders are finishing the small before the slow ones have started it and the marshals are waving left, right and centre and really not knowing who should be going where.
ric, in defence of the Datchet XC, the first small lap is to spread out the field so there is not a bottle-neck when the towpath section starts. I'd also say that it has many of the elements of a good XC and it is really only the hills that it is missing. It has a mix of surfaces and some are quite technical.
Today was Handy Cross XC for the Thames Valley XC league. For those not from this area, this is very different to the Saturday XC races. This is a race for a number of local clubs and guests. There is only one race so all ages from juniors to vets run as well as male and female so a wide range of abilities and speeds.
This has loomed on my calendar for a few weeks and I wasn't sure about it but the emails went out asking for runners and I had my miles done so didn't need a long one so turned up slightly apathetic and even standing at the start line still wasn't up for it. Gun went and we were off, well sort of. The start is on a single track on a steepish downhill and it was walking pace for a while before the field stretched out. Once going, the mojo returned but a quick glance round showed the errors of the start and I was way back and had to start picking slow runners off (not helped by the fact that the way to the start was up so people had to pass through the entire field to get to the back and many didn't). Settled into it and got a good rhythm going. I've done zero hill work this year so easy up the hills and ensure I got into a good pace immediately off the top of them and pick up those who passed me and a few more.
At about 3 miles into a 5 mile race I pulled up alongside a Sandhurst runner who just would not let me pass. If I stepped to the side to pass him he sped up, if I tucked in behind him he slowed down. He even jumped form one side of a path across to the complete opposite to counter one overtaking move. Was temped to ask why he was being such a twat but I knew there was a steep downhill and up again at 4 and I was fast down and slow up so knew it would shake out over that section and it did with him falling back. That 4th and last big uphill (SG claims there are only 3) is the last sorting of places and a cavalry charge back to the finish. Got passed by a TVT guy in the last hundred metres or so: hat off to him as he is a big guy and must be 85 kg to my 65.
Little annoyed with the eventual position as I must have lost 20 to 30 seconds pissing about at the start but other than that, a good day out.
Chuckled Phil. I bet that guy didn't even know you were there
But if you think the start is a "steepish", I'm not surprised you think there are 100s of hills in there
This is obviously one for the Irony police though, as right now, to me, a "hill" in a race is anything that isn't pancake flat. Sounds a good effort to get round when not fancying it.
Good "proper" XCing to a few others on here too. I certainly wouldn't fancy just combing out laps of fields. At least "Our" (I still call it our, having done about 2 races in 3 years) races (bar Datchet) have great variety.
13 at 6.53 job today. Super cold that early, but went well. Sniffing a bit. Not sure if it's one of those 10 times a year I sit on the cusp of a cold that never comes, or if it's tied up with the "haven't breathed right for a year" situation.
Either way, after luxuriously doing a 55mile week with no quality post race, I best get back to the track this week
Kind of regret not racing today, but it was a good lie in
I see Pippa Woolven won the Frieth Hilly 10k outright a couple of weeks ago, by a minute over Ross Langley!
He knew I was there.
I definitely see 4 hills: first long haul up the green slope with a little kicker at the end, then another just before mile 2 when you haul up to to the lane. Fast along and then down back past the start, left and hill number 3, muck around at the top then down and up for hill number 4 before glorious green downhill and a little uplift at the end.
And got a senior England call up for the European XC champs.
Phil, to be fair, that review was written in 1996. Today it wouldn't be an issue since I'm done with XC racing. It's the three strikes out situation, where each of the last three XC races has left me injured in some way.
I don't even train XC now. The odd bit of grass verge apart, it's roads only until further notice.
As for the 'race blocker'. I had one of my own many years back. He did the same thing each time I was in the same race. Same thing, he slows down and holds you up, but speeds up and moves across your line if you attempt to pass, and also did the same left - right - left weaving tactic to ensure you do not pass.
Here' my specimen of blocking twat. I'd just escaped via a water station.
Shame he didn't drown. There were two more blocked races to come.
🙂
SG, the sore throats at the moment are associated with the crap air quality from the east.
That's the continent, rather than Suffolk.
🙂
Not sure I can remember a blocker as such. More so their cousin, the types who try and "use you" by staying super close.
They normally take a right bit of shifting, either going side to side, slowing or surging.
Obviously a lot different to the people I've hitched a ride from over the years. Before monstering late on
In the Bramley road races the 10 and 20 miles are run together. Once it was blowing an absolute gale, and after following a runner doing the '20' for a bit (I'm doing the 10) I called out 'my turn', went ahead and towed him along for a couple of minutes. He then called the same. And so the pair of us ran taking turns to face the blast.
Seemed the right thing to do.
🙂
Can't remember the exact details Pete. I have some recollection it was happening for a couple of miles after the five mile point.
🙂
People appear to be offended by your admission of drafting Ric...
Where is everybody??
8 miles at lunchtime at 7:15s for me. Legs feeling in pretty good shape after the weekend's exploits. I did no running yesterday as the day was spent doing various jobs, including constructing the treadmill I took delivery of on Friday. Well, most of that time was spent getting the fucker out of the box - what an exercise that was - mainly due to thing weighing 14 stone and the delivery guys had delivered it and left it standing on its end. Eventually got it all set up by about 10.30pm which meant there was no time to do the planned 5 mile recovery run. When I turned it on for a quick test the belt was slipping like mad to the point it would be dangerous to run on!! A quick google tells me I need to tighten the belt up and it doesn't look too difficult.
I should buy a treadmill every winter - we've had about 2 frosty days since I ordered it and the temperature is due to rise above 10 degrees C later this week...! That's almost as warm as summer.
well, me and Lit were busy pointing out to some guy on another thread that he probably shouldn't depict himself as "running at elite level" on his PT website, without clarifying that "elite" in this instance is a small town road running club's arbitrary top end, rather than competing nationally.
6 and 4.5 for me. Meant to be 4 at lunch, but some building work meant i stumbled across a fun little grassy hill in the middle of a park I actually hadn't noticed despite running very close to it for 6months! And erm, subsequent getting lost in some random Slough housing estate!
Another tedious headfone update, thought i'd limit my overear use to Sunday long runs, but took the in-ear phones in a pocket.
Forgot said phones were in pocket, through the wash they went! Second identical pair at the ready, they seem less willing to stay in the ears...Ho hum! Miniscule annoyance compared to injury or breathing, or even stomach upsets that the 6 3/4 years of the thread have seen, so i'll allow it!
They've got those Yurbud things I was talking about in Sports Direct High Wycombe for £9.99 Mr G... As I said before, mine have NEVER fallen out while running and even sound OK. They come in different sizes, so you may want to try them on sneakily before buying them though.
Double 6 commute for me today. Hope the fog stays away until after I'm home, as I hate using a head torch in the fog!
CC, I drafted for as long as my conscience and ideas of what constituted fair play would allow. So I must have run behind the guy for... nearly 50 yards before taking over.
Once in the Gosport HM, I hit a wall of air at 11 miles and had to run into that for several minutes.
I'd gone through 10 miles in 57:13 and was apparently alone. When I got out of the wind, I looked around and discovered an entire line of other runners behind me.
Thanks guys, and now you can all 'f' off!
I put the boot in and dropped the lot.
I'm quite prepared to zig zag all over the place, side step and stop stone dead to get someone off my tail.
In one of the last Staines race I did. I appeared to be drafting Phil and Bus, but the reality was I'd spent 5k making up the 50m lead they had gained in the first 400m.
I was grinding the gaps out and losing them in turn. A good distraction but technically speaking not drafting.
🙂
I remember using Sam at Wokingham when I wasn't sure of my capability one year. A classic last few miles job right behind, then suddenly realising I had a bit more, monstering off with 1/3mile to go.
I did thank her though
On the other hand, GSR on track to beat the previous week's low 57, we hit a wall of wind round a turn at 8miles. Some guy basically used me as a proper windbreak (being a lankster), and then motored past when the worst had gone.
Been meaning to have a word about that one Ric
Drafting's is a perfectly fair tactic in my view though. It's just being smart - though not in the same way as Trump not paying taxes!
I wish I'd had some lankster to tuck in behind in that GSR SG! That was some wind along the front and the zig-zagging to try and find some shelter probably added as much time as the wind itself! Still, if I'd finished any quicker I would have missed the once in a life time of chundering in the background shot of Jo Pavey being interviewed live on TV
. Still a PB too!
Tonight's run home tonight continued the sequence of perfectly acceptable paced XCs of late. All 8:20 ish compared to 9+. Nothing great, but considerably better than earlier this year. I suspect the run of low mileage weeks has been helpful. That bloody adductor thing is still complaining though!
What treadmill have you got CC? Congrats on yet another pb too. I've forgotten what them things are!
Been drafted a couple of times and also used somebody myself since in a couple of fell races where I've not known the route and ended up winning both. Unlike Ric I wasn't keen on stopping dead in the road ones as I wanted a decent time which turned out to be a shocker anyway when I stopped to wait for the bastard when he fell then he did me in the sprint.
The other time I started to weave all over the promenade we was running on in Blackpool to let him know I wasn't happy which prob cost me a 53.5X 10mile time where I ended up with 54 dead.
Few decent days training. Friday was a 10k progression on the treadmill which was a 34.15 followed by a works piss up. Saturday I got out and ended up doing 6 miles at 6 dead followed by a few beers. Sunday I did a leisurely 20 with a mate followed by a few beers then did 10 today in 57.4X with a 6.30 first mile followed by another 4 this afternoon and a few beers.
3 cheers for the beers I say!
Nice casual ten miler, day after a 20, just the minute faster than my PB Matt
. Perhaps I'm not drinking enough beer!
Yeah, I sometimes slip into running to the beat when listening to music, but that's not a bad thing - it can pick you up when you;re tired! I try to listen to music that is generally abut the right pace for the run, and will often listen to some really slow stuff to start. That said, I also listen to podcasts on long runs so gawd knows what that does to pace!
Ric took a mini-bite at my post there. I know how much you dislike drafting Ric as you called me up on it last year! I barely ever get the opportunity to draft to be honest - the races I'm in seem to be pretty strung out from early on. I've properly done it once. I'd spent probably an entire year of really bloody windy races and I ran the first half of an HM tucked in behind a guy doing a similar pace then went past him when we turned out of the wind. I'm not sorry.
To be fair, a year earlier when I properly raced my first HM, my then coach (johnas) told me to try and shelter behind other runners as much as I could, so I was just following coach's orders. I tend to not bother worrying about it that much now although this year has been much less windy in any case!
10 @ 7:11s with a few hills this morning followed by 4x 20 second strides (4:42 / 4:42 / 4:37 / 4:29).
Matt - I went for the DKN Airun I. Haven't got it fully set up yet, but it can link up to iPad / iPhone and that sort of shit as well as doing all the basics. Top speed of (I think) 20kph which means I can do pretty much any of my training runs on there if I have to.
That's a point - there's a nice slot for placing an iPad on the console. Do any of you guys watch any running type stuff on youtube that you could recommend??
Dirty tactics from the Johnas there! It's one thing doing it as the situation arises, but actually setting you out to try and draft before the race! What a disgrace
Nice run CC, although i'd say those aren't strides, they sound more like flat out efforts
I thought i best get back to the track, after spending a week glorying in the 5mile race!
Didn't fancy anything too long, so thought i'd do a bit of tweaking to a short reps sesh.
So we came out with
8x200 off 30secs, 2x400 off 1min, 8x200 off 30secs
That felt a tasty workout off so little recovery. And clearly the pace drops a little compared to the usuals.
Therefore, a mere 1x34, and 8x35, 7x36, with a 78 and 77 400m.
The mere mention of Gosport half reminds me it's on my "want to do again" list one day, pending health.
Quite a few on there now, including the Maidenhead, CP and GSR 10milers, and quite a few 5milers i'd done before.
Easy to say you want to do races again, and hard to actually get out there and do them.
I genuinely don't see what's dirty about it. It just seems sensible to me but I suppose it depends how far you take it. If I tucked in behind someone and they started weaving about the place, I wouldn't follow them, I would just go past. Like I say though, I hardly ever do it. If I find myself directly behind someone in a race, I almost always just go straight past them anyway!
Last year, I remember being at a 10k race where there was a 2 mile stretch that was really windy. A guy I know up at the sharp end said someone tucked right in behind him down that stretch and he stepped out of his way numerous times, but the guy wouldn't go past him. Eventually, turning out of the headwind for the final home stretch of about a mile, he cruised past him and beat him! I think that's where drafting becomes a bit dodgy... And probably not because the guy was sheltering from the wind and getting an advantage (because that doesn't necessarily impact the guy who's being drafted), but in this case, the drafter was tucking in so close that it was putting the drafted guy off his race to an extent. Stopping dead would probably be a justifiable option in that case
I just remembered Kipchoge in the Olympic marathon this year openly inviting the guy beside him to take his turn at the front and he didn't. Kipchoge then just put the hammer down and left him way behind.
i think it's the pre-determined plan to do it, that sets it into naughty territory for me. For another thing, surely you run as it comes, not seeking out some mug to use
The whole taking turns at the front sounds super professional though. I've never been in a group that's been at the top of their game to do that. Generally if i felt i could get to the front and lead, i'd monster off. Only the 75.41 pb at Wokingham one year, where i sat in a group slightly faster than i wanted to go can i remember using the force of a group!
It's a well-known fact that when women (generally quite small) draft behind men (larger, stronger) in races it is perfectly acceptable race behaviour.
Haha Lit.
One other thing I've noticed any time I've even thought "I'll sit in here for a bit of respite from the wind", I still feel like I'm running into a gale and it never seems to make any difference! There would really need to be a decent size of group I think and that's just never there in the races I do.
Anyway - I just checked out that thread you guys were pulling the PT dude up on. I'm going to let him stick with his definition of "elite" on the basis that I could definitely fit into that bracket too. From this moment forward, I'm going to call myself an "elite" runner.
Thanks for the endorsement Chris, I'll pay you later.
Great series of runs there Matt.
At Wokingham's 20+mph winds this year I actually planned to catch a group in front at the point at which I knew the wind would start to hit us from the front, this was maybe 6-7 miles in. I slowly caught them over about 3 miles arriving just in time. I got a mile or two protection but then the group broke up and I pushed on alone. By the time I got to the real headwind in the last few miles most people were going backwards so were no help. I'll always start off with my own pace plan and then improvise along the way to get some protection if it's there.
No running from me, weekend in Paris and lots of eating and drinking. I forgot my shorts so no Parkrun. It was for the best as it meant I had no excuse not to get really drunk.
Nice XC effort PMJ, I was sad to miss that one.
The TVT guy that passed you, I presume is Ollie, his running has come on a reasonable amount but he's very strong on the bike.
haha i did think of you CC in relation to that thread! The only difference, is that you're not misusing "gold" (i think?) standard to hype yourself up.
And also, gold doesn't have the connotations "elite" does, unless you strangely take it as meaning Gold medalist standard!
i need to not stir up debates post track sessions. I miss the "nice session" comments