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Child Benefit to be scrapped for higher earners

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    It's his company!image

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    So !

    He can easily stick it against expenses then.. He doesn;t have a boss who has to approve it

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    Well I got the job, screws the agreed payout from an insurance policy (that was due to cover the mortgage 2 months too late) but at least I don't have to transform into a fat chav with 12 kids thats drinks WD40 for signing on day. image Half what I've previosuly been earning and 21 miles each way currently by a bus then a train. Such hardship .... but anyway, I'm no longer 'one of those' so as you were image

    Dave, (not wishing to speak for Liverbird) it's off the bottom line, profit, something that you could draw from the business to reward your hard work as a businessman (and then pay tax on), it's essential expenditure. Unless Mr LB is bathing in oysters and stuffing credit cards in birds knickers.

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    Well done on the new job Peeewidee!
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    Thanks Kwilter, It's only part time though.....  5 days, 35 hours a week and a lunch hour each day, need to find something to do with the rest of the week or I'll be bored silly image
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    You get a lunch break?? Scrounging slacker! image
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    candy ollier wrote (see)

    isn't there still that 50% super tax on bankers bonuses? 

     plus 52% tax/NIC anyway

    so 7 billion in bonuses will yield, err, just over 7 bn in tax take.

    if the bonuses weren't paid, then it would go to shareholders and be extra taxed income in the banks

    err, i think that's 10.5 bn taxed at 30% = 3bn, say average shareholder tax rate 30% = around 2bn, total tax yield around 5bn

    as a result of those bonuses, treasury is better off by 2bn, than if the bonuses weren't paid

    alhough assuming that a lot of those banks had losses(?) then the cash benefit to the treasury might be closer to 5bn

     (ps I don't hate people on the dole or bankers.  i know you're supposed to hate one or the other, but i can't be arsed.  just in a time when government finances are tight, these bonuses are a nice little earner for the treasury, compared to the position if they WEREN'T paid out.  and by little, i mean huge!)

    They'll pay 50% on income over 150k  - I don't think there are any taxes on top of that - not that I've seen mentioned in any of the reports this week anyway - and of course even Alistair Darling admitted that his tax on bonuses last year hadn't worked because bankers had used various ploys to avoid paying it. 

    The bonus culture is usually said to have contributed to the high risk behaviour that led to the crisis in the first place.   How much are the shares the govt owns going to be worth if we repeat the whole process again ?    As it is there was a report this week suggesting another bailout could be round the corner.   

    They are in a no lose position - it's not like an entrepreneur taking risks with their own money - the rewards are way out of proportion.  

    More than anything though these bonuses are coming out of excessive profits.   Of course it's their job to make profits but these profits are only possible because of the position of banks in society - the system of rules and laws and the financial and social organisation that exists.   No person or business exists in a vacuum - they rely on everybody else yet take an excessive share of the wealth that is created.    They tell us it's a reward for their talent but check the background of most of them and the biggest talent will be self promotion allied to having the right school tie.  

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    Peeeewidee wrote (see)

     Unless Mr LB is bathing in oysters and stuffing credit cards in birds knickers.

    imageimageimage He'd better bloddy NOT be! image
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    Candy No - I think Stu reads from the same left wing hymn book as I do; but where he sees people as the problem and wants to personalise his revolution - I see the problem as systemic. I don’t go for violent revolutions or imposing Marxism on a population which plainly doesn’t want it and never will. I actually think Capitalism is wonderful, it knocks seven kinds of shite out of slavery and feudalism but the contradictions within capitalism - which we’ve seen played out over the last few years writ large, will eventually kill it - what comes next is anyone’s guess - but it won’t be dictatorship by or of the proletariate... that much I can tell you

    What I don’t get and will never understand is how you can run an economy and by extension a society on the premise of non-intervention in markets. You wouldn’t run a business like this - why apply this ideology to an economy? Isn’t that why we have governments in the first place? isn’t the defining premise of democracy that we elect the people who govern us and by extension they govern for the good of the mass of people?

    Using your analogy about CCS (Nice name BTW) to demonstrate this. Too right I’d go for the 10 year contract; it gives me security and a basis to plan expansion - but what if year 1,2 and 3 work out as they are supposed to but the company goes bust in year 4? I’ve put all my eggs in one basket and turned away other contracts to chase a pipe dream. What if I intend to do some of my work pro bono to attract more business and keep the local chavs from kicking my door in and stealing my Kylie CDs ... this reliance on a big contract means I cannot do this?

    The analogy I’d use is a farmer and his four sons. The farmer is the UK economy, the sons are ‘manufacturing’ ‘finance’ ‘knowledge’ and ‘service’. Manufacturing is a big strapping lad who has kept the farm going for a couple of hundred years - he produces real goods which can be sold in the market to make money. Finance provides the conditions where this money can be made; knowledge is the brains behind all of this; and service keeps everyone entertained. One day manufacturing gets ill, but instead of nurturing him with some TLC and a good talk with knowledge the farmer reveals that finance is going to take over the farm aided by service - and things go along swingingly well as they sell off the family silver to keep the farm going. Eventually the symbiotic relationship between finance and service breaks down and finance reveals that he’s borrowed too much and not told anyone and they cannot pay the bills anymore - what's more they all owe him the next 30 years wages... so they turn to manufacturing and knowledge to pull them out the shit; because they need to start making stuff again and selling it - except they can’t because they’ve been neglected for so long they’ve shrunk to the size of mini-me’s

    Looking over the fence the farmer sees 'Home Farm Germany' and his well fed son Manufacturing and they're reaping real growth... and the farmer says to himself... if only...
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    not quite Corrie. I see the problem as systematic and see the ideology in the heads of people. I believe people have the capacity to see through things and create a new socialist system. We should look and learn from the failure of past so called Marxist regimes. I did also imply that Capitalism has to get to a really advanced stage(thus structural issue) before the problems become truly visible.

    we are not too far apart.

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    MuttleyMuttley ✭✭✭
    Corinthian wrote (see)
    what exactly does a hedge fund manager produce?
    Profit for people with loads of capital already. They buy up cheap and sell expensive. They claim it's really clever stuff but it's no different from buying a house and selling it on shortly afterwards for a bit more. Any idiot can do it if they have cash to spare in a rising market. Which is why you don't hear much about hedge funds right now.
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    Peeeewidee wrote (see)

    Dave, (not wishing to speak for Liverbird) it's off the bottom line, profit, something that you could draw from the business to reward your hard work as a businessman (and then pay tax on), it's essential expenditure

    and of course can be off set against his tax (Pass me a tissue for my bleeding heart)
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    i tell you who was a c*nt.  howard off those halifax adverts.  he should definitely be hung by the neck until dead. 

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    Most of the money made in the city is candy floss money - a pile of pink fluff whipped up from small amounts of capital which is then reaped in the form of "performance related" bonuses by people who can retire on 3 good years of cooking the books.

    Look up "ponzi scheme" and "casino" to see what the entire financial services industry is all about.

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    i'll tell you who bankers most closely resemble: hitler.  hanging is too good for them.  especially that four eyed twat howard.  or maybe he's more like geobbels... into propaganda and that.  yeah he'd love to give you "extra".  extra pellets of zyklon b. 
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    'Pitchforks and torches, get yer pitchforks and torches*'

    *This is a non profit making enterprise and all our pitchforks are made from sustainable organic forests and recycled bayonets
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    Take you lot don't keep your finances in the banks then and you're happy with the the job losses in the City, and I  don't mean those running the Banks and Investment Companies.
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    popsider wrote (see)
       They tell us it's a reward for their talent but check the background of most of them and the biggest talent will be self promotion allied to having the right school tie.  


    lol! is this your view of banking circa 1950?

    that chip must weigh you down

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    Don't be so bitter Oxy.     
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    i am not bitter about anything and i have no idea what you are even referring to
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    JWrunJWrun ✭✭✭
    Oh ohoh latest - big families won't be supported on welfare.....now that's the way forward
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    that sounds like it appeals to daily mail readers, but is it reasonable?  if an engineering company goes bust and its catholic managing director (with 6 children) loses his job, what are they going to do?  throw them out on the street?
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    if he was forced to leave his 10p house in a shithole in wales and travel to leeds or london or chelmsford to get a job, i'd approve, obviously!

    actually making people live in chelmsford is barbaric, but still

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    BarklesBarkles ✭✭✭

    Have you Writtled off Chelmsford then?

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    I doubt that the catholic md of an engineering company will be out of work for long or not be able to survive sans benefits - unless the company went bust due to his complete lack of financial acumen. In which case Chelsford is reasonable.
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    it was a light enginerring company that acted as a subcontractor to the construction industry, making those steel skeletons that are used to reinforce concrete.  they went bust because the 4 main contractors he worked for all ran into trouble, and stopped paying their subcontractors.  he was entirely blameless.

    also, he was mildly distracted from work, due to being a catholic and just having found out that several of the local priests had got at 4 of his kids

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    the pope however sorted it out, he made the priests say 6 hail marys and 9 heil hitlers, and then shipped them off to the Hanoi South diocese, under newly appointed Cardinal Glitter, where "zese kind of things iz better tolerated"
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    WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭
    Barkles wrote (see)

    Have you Writtled off Chelmsford then?

    Barkles!  You're an Essex deer!
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    candy ollier wrote (see)
    the pope however sorted it out, he made the priests say 6 hail marys and 9 heil hitlers, and then shipped them off to the Hanoi South diocese, under newly appointed Cardinal Glitter, where "zese kind of things iz better tolerated"
    Cardinal Glitter lol lol lol
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